Originally posted by sillyme:Ok lor, grandmaster
Reading too many books and conducting too many experiments.
Originally posted by despondent:hey domonkassyu,
i dunno if u r aware tat christians r divided into 2 camps when it comes to salvation…while both camps agree tat salvation is thru the grace of God alone n nt by the works of man…the division is regarding the issue of predestination n freewill of man. miracles&prophecies is probably a believer of predestination from the way he shares in his posts…
while i do nt wish to debate which camp is rite(theologians have debated abt tis for centuries but stil cun come to an agreement), i wonder if u actually noe tat the reason for miracles&prophecies last sentence was on the basis of predestination…tat man plays no part in his own salvation n tat those who r saved r elected by God Himself, nt by man’s freewill…
due to the undeserved loving kindness of God, he sent his only begotten son to redeem humans that we might have the hope of ever lasting life.this is wat is commonly known as God's grace.
and the teachings of christ wants humans to keep doing "good works"(following the correct teachings) that they might have the chance to be the other flock to inherit the earth. a simple logic that God's grace and men's work is both needed actually went on a debate for centuries..
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Are you sure that all human are capable of being saved by the grace of God?Do you believe that there are some humans borned damned by God?
as for the crap known as predestination and also luck..the bible explictly says no such
thing..mayb the exception of JC's life.since he agreed to die for humans before he is transferred down to earth. he know that he will die and why.n he also know his purpose as a human is to stand witness for the father.in this sense, we may say his life is predestined..but, as a human and having freewill, there is also a chance that he will sin against God."luckily" he didnt as he knows hw hurt God has felt being slandered by one of his most beautiful angel and stick by God's side.
maybe all christians should really think what the bible really teaches instead of what my church/pastor/fill in the blank...... really teaches.
Originally posted by despondent:hey but have u read up on the predestination doctrine b4??? they do have strong biblical backup. if not, theologians wouldnt be debating abt it for centuries. predestination believers r nt disproving the idea of freewill. man has freewill in everything EXCEPT
yes my friend..read it..its actually like saying before creation,God has a template for all things and based on decision made by the creatures,what other possible outcome can be.jus like a tree..how it can branches out.it looks like it. and since God is all knowing,it only makes sense he "predestined" all stuff.
however, it also seems like God has chosen not to use his ability of all knowing regarding satan n humans.
but since the big guy up there says in his book that there is no "god of destiny n god of luck" it means no.or he would b lying which he will never do it as he is holy.
regardin salvation,ever since the incident in eden n where the 1st prophecy is being uttered, God has this provision made ready for undeserving humans.with the death of christ, all humans have the right to "negotiate" with God to claim the reward of ever lasting life.but to activate that right means we have to do God's word.
its like a company says u won a prize but for the prize to be in your hands,u have to go collect it..simple as that.so the debate on predestination is pretty redundant n pointless since the bible again clearly states the answer.
Originally posted by domonkassyu:God has a template for all things and based on decision made by the creatures,
Actually this is not sovereignty that is taught in calvinism. This is the arminian thought.
i find it hard to neglect the idea of God electing people unto salvation, Rom 9-11, John 6, Matthew 24:24, the fact that Paul talks about it in his letters?
Just had a thought. Much of Christian scholarship is dominated by calvinists and not arminians. I feel that the calvinist thought is better supported from the bible and they're more rational / academic in their thinking. What do you think? I reckon there're more calvinists writing stuff just because the arminians are out there trying to evangelize, rather than write about doctrinal stuff. But of course, this is an unfair caricature of the two schools of thought.
Originally posted by 24/7:Actually this is not sovereignty that is taught in calvinism. This is the arminian thought.
i find it hard to neglect the idea of God electing people unto salvation, Rom 9-11, John 6, Matthew 24:24, the fact that Paul talks about it in his letters?
Just had a thought. Much of Christian scholarship is dominated by calvinists and not arminians. I feel that the calvinist thought is better supported from the bible and they're more rational / academic in their thinking. What do you think? I reckon there're more calvinists writing stuff just because the arminians are out there trying to evangelize, rather than write about doctrinal stuff. But of course, this is an unfair caricature of the two schools of thought.
seriously i have no idea wat calvinist or arminians are nor wat their doctrine is.from wat i know of rom9:11..it means at the spiritual israel.meaning the physical israelites are no longer God's chosen ones.but those who are to accept God and JC's sacrificial death will form the spiritual israel..as for matt 24:24..the chosen ones would be the 144000 if not wrong?
but my point is that if God has predestinied humans life..that would be unfair and thus making the God known as Yodh Heh Wah Heh not a god worth serving."luckily" God is really a lover of justice and therefore will not do such evilness.
but being God,he has the intelligence to analyze every single person's decision and the consequence tat will occur.but He has chosen not to do so. and let humans free will ruin himself or do God's work.