Essentially, all religion and philosophy boils down to a common theme - faith in mankind.
This hypothesis is consistent in Christianity as well.
1) The various gospels were written by men centuries ago (30-100AD)
2) Men selected which books were true and termed them as Scripture (various councils in 4th century by Catholic Church) while deeming the rest as wrong. Their yardstick was their own intepretation of what was taught by the representatives of Christ at that time - Catholic Church. Other christian groups had their own NT Canon.
3) Hence the books selected by the men of the Catholic Church became the Christian Bible and since it is scripture, it is also God's words.
Based on this historical premises, it can be argued that faith in God is derived from faith in men and his ability to separate the inspired scripturefrom the mundane. If you did had faith in man, can we have faith in God?
An aethist can point out that this is hypocrisy while a religious men can point out how can we place our faith on what is unseen when we can't even trust what we can touch, feel and smell haha. :)
Originally posted by grandmaster89:Essentially, all religion and philosophy boils down to a common theme - faith in mankind.
This hypothesis is consistent in Christianity as well.
1) The various gospels were written by men centuries ago (30-100AD)
2) Men selected which books were true and termed them as Scripture (various councils in 4th century by Catholic Church) while deeming the rest as wrong. Their yardstick was their own intepretation of what was taught by the representatives of Christ at that time - Catholic Church. Other christian groups had their own NT Canon.
3) Hence the books selected by the men of the Catholic Church became the Christian Bible and since it is scripture, it is also God's words.
Based on this historical premises, it can be argued that faith in God is derived from faith in men and his ability to separate the inspired scripturefrom the mundane. If you did had faith in man, can we have faith in God?
An aethist can point out that this is hypocrisy while a religious men can point out how can we place our faith on what is unseen when we can't even trust what we can touch, feel and smell haha. :)
And since i can't touch, feel or smell you, i shouldnt think you exist too. So basically, i've just wasted 5 seconds of my life reading this post and replying you.
Originally posted by grandmaster89:An aethist can point out that this is hypocrisy while a religious men can point out how can we place our faith on what is unseen when we can't even trust what we can touch, feel and smell haha. :)
Faith in unseen? For the majority of people or believers. But I've seen the glorified Jesus. Tried to see His face but in the end I got burning sensation in both my eyeballs in the process. But it was a long time ago when I was in my 7th grade. Now I'm 28 years old.
I'm not the only one too. But probably one stupid enough to risk mocking from people like you because I cannot prove it to you. But a witness doesn't need to prove that he is a witness as far as I know. So I'm a witness of the living Jesus.
But here I wrote what I saw
Alright I'll yell you...
I was in my 7th grade at the time and life wasn't being particularly easy on me(hey 7th grader also has their own problems).
So at one night I was laying on my bed and pondering that my life was pretty painful for me. I started to cry but being a boy who thought that no boy should ever cry I covered my face with my pillow. Then while crying I started to imagine that I was hugging Jesus just to make me feel better. Suddenly I came to think that only Jesus was worth defending as he was really a man of no sin. After that thought came to me I started to feel love for Jesus. Small at first but it grew rapidly so that in a mere seconds I felt a total love for Jesus so much so that I would give anything really anything at all for Jesus even if Jesus asked me to walk through hell and came back. It was really a pure love that I never felt before. I've been in love but this was different. While I was full of love for Jesus suddenly a powerful thought came over me that I earned a right to ask something from God. And because I knew that every picture of Jesus was just fictional picture I would like to be allowed to see Jesus true face. So that was what I asked: to be allowed to see Jesus face. At the instant I asked that in my heart, while my face still being covered with my pillow I 'saw' very clearly a person covered in immense white light which I took to be Jesus and still believe so. I tried to get a glimpse of His face but was confronted with such an immense white light coming from the direction of His face that I failed twice(I tried more than once) in my attempt to penetrate the light. And because I failed to penetrate the light I began to think to myself: Hey never mind not being able to see His face, now that I've seen Him I would be able to tell everybody I've seen Him(God). Then I tried for the last time to get a glimpse of His face. This last attempt made both my eyeballs physically hurt like being pierced by a thousand small needles. It was a burning sensation which hurt both my eyeballs. So I knew I couldn't push it and I gave up trying to see this person face and set my eyes low 'on the ground'. Not long after that the vision started to grew weak and weaker until it disappeared completely.
btw the white light that was coming from the face was much brighter than that our sun at mid-day. Never seen such a powerful light before and after in my life.
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:Faith in unseen? For the majority of people or believers. But I've seen the glorified Jesus. Tried to see His face but in the end I got burning sensation in both my eyeballs in the process. But it was a long time ago when I was in my 7th grade. Now I'm 28 years old.
I'm not the only one too. But probably one stupid enough to risk mocking from people like you because I cannot prove it to you. But a witness doesn't need to prove that he is a witness as far as I know. So I'm a witness of the living Jesus.
But here I wrote what I saw
Alright I'll yell you...
I was in my 7th grade at the time and life wasn't being particularly easy on me(hey 7th grader also has their own problems).
So at one night I was laying on my bed and pondering that my life was pretty painful for me. I started to cry but being a boy who thought that no boy should ever cry I covered my face with my pillow. Then while crying I started to imagine that I was hugging Jesus just to make me feel better. Suddenly I came to think that only Jesus was worth defending as he was really a man of no sin. After that thought came to me I started to feel love for Jesus. Small at first but it grew rapidly so that in a mere seconds I felt a total love for Jesus so much so that I would give anything really anything at all for Jesus even if Jesus asked me to walk through hell and came back. It was really a pure love that I never felt before. I've been in love but this was different. While I was full of love for Jesus suddenly a powerful thought came over me that I earned a right to ask something from God. And because I knew that every picture of Jesus was just fictional picture I would like to be allowed to see Jesus true face. So that was what I asked: to be allowed to see Jesus face. At the instant I asked that in my heart, while my face still being covered with my pillow I 'saw' very clearly a person covered in immense white light which I took to be Jesus and still believe so. I tried to get a glimpse of His face but was confronted with such an immense white light coming from the direction of His face that I failed twice(I tried more than once) in my attempt to penetrate the light. And because I failed to penetrate the light I began to think to myself: Hey never mind not being able to see His face, now that I've seen Him I would be able to tell everybody I've seen Him(God). Then I tried for the last time to get a glimpse of His face. This last attempt made both my eyeballs physically hurt like being pierced by a thousand small needles. It was a burning sensation which hurt both my eyeballs. So I knew I couldn't push it and I gave up trying to see this person face and set my eyes low 'on the ground'. Not long after that the vision started to grew weak and weaker until it disappeared completely.
btw the white light that was coming from the face was much brighter than that our sun at mid-day. Never seen such a powerful light before and after in my life.
Yes I believe that ....
is a hallucination ....
Originally posted by Xephone_xenon:Yes I believe that ....
is a hallucination ....
Agree....
No matter. I am a witness of the living Jesus. I wrote and shared what I saw. You read it. After that it's up to you. It was a personal experience afterall. One that was meant only for me.
After all God is not for everybody. Only for the few chosen.
I cannot prove to you God's existence whatever other christians may say. I believe and know there is a God because I have been experiencing him in my life.
Thats my message to atheists. =)
Thanks David.
I've been experiencing God in my life as well. God is my companion to some extent.
God is actively involved in my life too especially in the last few years. Though I cannot say that every one of my prayer is granted instantly. .
Jedi like power. Anyone? LOL. Well to some extent.
Where is that lightsaber of mine.....otherwise I would have to start making a new one from bamboo. But it would be pretty kinky.
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:No matter. I am a witness of the living Jesus. I wrote and shared what I saw. You read it. After that it's up to you. It was a personal experience afterall. One that was meant only for me.
After all God is not for everybody. Only for the few chosen.
i seriously cant helped but feel an outrage at your last sentence..God is there for every one.does it not rain on the criminal side of the world as it rains for the good?does not God love all humans?
it is the people themselves that has rejected God out of their own tendacies to sin.God has never rejected humans as a whole either.thats why a spiritual israel is in place of the literal israel. im sorry my fren, but you should really be ashamed of that last sentence.
ah. calvinism and the other one. armanism or smth lol.
i belong to the latter camp, cuz more difficult to pronounce, sounds leeter hahaha.
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:No matter. I am a witness of the living Jesus. I wrote and shared what I saw. You read it. After that it's up to you. It was a personal experience afterall. One that was meant only for me.
After all God is not for everybody. Only for the few chosen.
How do you know you are chosen? How do you know it's not a trick of Satan?
Originally posted by domonkassyu:
i seriously cant helped but feel an outrage at your last sentence..God is there for every one.does it not rain on the criminal side of the world as it rains for the good?does not God love all humans?it is the people themselves that has rejected God out of their own tendacies to sin.God has never rejected humans as a whole either.thats why a spiritual israel is in place of the literal israel. im sorry my fren, but you should really be ashamed of that last sentence.
Are you sure that all human are capable of being saved by the grace of God?
Do you believe that there are some humans borned damned by God?
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Are you sure that all human are capable of being saved by the grace of God?Do you believe that there are some humans borned damned by God?
Zwei no one is born damned by God. God is a God of mercy who even forgives sinful people when they repent.
All human can be saved if they repent and felt sorry for their sins which are transgressions to God
Originally posted by despondent:hey domonkassyu,
i dunno if u r aware tat christians r divided into 2 camps when it comes to salvation…while both camps agree tat salvation is thru the grace of God alone n nt by the works of man…the division is regarding the issue of predestination n freewill of man. miracles&prophecies is probably a believer of predestination from the way he shares in his posts…
while i do nt wish to debate which camp is rite(theologians have debated abt tis for centuries but stil cun come to an agreement), i wonder if u actually noe tat the reason for miracles&prophecies last sentence was on the basis of predestination…tat man plays no part in his own salvation n tat those who r saved r elected by God Himself, nt by man’s freewill…
Aside from that I believe that no one is worthy to be given eternal life for the works done only a shortwhile on earth. The gift of eternal life is beyond human effort. That's why it's called a gift. No one can work his way up to heaven. But this doesn't mean that deeds are not counted at all. Because faith is required to enter salvation. And that faith must be backed by deeds because sooner or later a man who proffessed that he puts his faith in Jesus must choose to act whether he really believes in Jesus. Otherwise that faith is a fake one and the man is actually living in denial in that he doesn't believe in Jesus because his actions say so.
As for predestination. I do not call it predestination. I believe that God knows everything. In fact God knows the very end even before he started to create this universe. God knows each of us before we were born. God knows how we are going to live our lives even before we were born/before we exist. God knows how we are going to die before we are born. In short God knows everything.
I want to give testimony,
I've had my future told in great detail by a Catholic priest in a monastery in 1997(during high school retreat). The prophecy took 5 years to come to pass. In the prophecy my thoughts and feelings in the future were known, people who I was going to meet are known, dream that I was going to have are known, even the future president of my country were told and came to pass and of course the story plot that was going to unfold was known in great detail. It's actually very very scary to know that whatever moves we are going to take God already knows them.
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
How do you know you are chosen? How do you know it's not a trick of Satan?
Because I asked and God did answer me right away.
Because I'm the chosen? LOL.
Satan has his people and God has His people. God is still working today as he was thousands year ago. Satan can do as much as long as it permitted by the Lord. Because satan actually has no authority only influence, no throne only influence. As the bible says no man can have a single stone unless it is given to him.
How did Abraham know for sure that his God is God not the trick of satan? How did Noah know that God is God not the trick of satan? How did Jacob know that the man he wrestled with all night long was from God and not the trick of satan. How did Moses know that God is God and not the trick of satan. How does the whole Israelis know that God is God and not the trick of satan? How did Joseph know that his life was blessed by God and not by satan? How did Joseph know that God gave him the prime minister title of whole Egypt and not satan. How did Jesus disciples know that Jesus is God not satan. How did the prophets know that God is God and not the trick of satan? How did john the baptist know that Jesus is the one from God and not the trick from satan? How did Paul know that what blinded him was God and not the trick of satan?
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:Zwei no one is born damned by God. God is a God of mercy who even forgives sinful people when they repent.
All human can be saved if they repent and felt sorry for their sins which are transgressions to God
All your statements are assumption. Those who are born without souls are damned by God upon birth.
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:Because I asked and God did answer me right away.
Because I'm the chosen? LOL.
Satan has his people and God has His people. God is still working today as he was thousands year ago. Satan can do as much as long as it permitted by the Lord. Because satan actually has no authority only influence, no throne only influence. As the bible says no man can have a single stone unless it is given to him.
How did Abraham know for sure that his God is God not the trick of satan? How did Noah know that God is God not the trick of satan? How did Jacob know that the man he wrestled with all night long was from God and not the trick of satan. How did Moses know that God is God and not the trick of satan. How does the whole Israelis know that God is God and not the trick of satan? How did Joseph know that his life was blessed by God and not by satan? How did Joseph know that God gave him the prime minister title of whole Egypt and not satan. How did Jesus disciples know that Jesus is God not satan. How did the prophets know that God is God and not the trick of satan? How did john the baptist know that Jesus is the one from God and not the trick from satan? How did Paul know that what blinded him was God and not the trick of satan?
Hence no actual conclusive proof that Satan did provide you with a miracle.
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Hence no actual conclusive proof that Satan did provide you with a miracle.
herzog very free today? ho say boh?
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
All your statements are assumption. Those who are born without souls are damned by God upon birth.
Who are born without souls? On what basis do you say his statements are assumptions?
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
All your statements are assumption. Those who are born without souls are damned by God upon birth.
Zwei there is no living man born without a soul. None. No soul no life.
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Hence no actual conclusive proof that Satan did provide you with a miracle.
No I'm actually rather insane LOL. That's a more logical explanation Asked God? and God did answer? Come on.......
You must have been watching too many horror movie Zwei. They are just that movies. If you take even movies who claim to be inspired by true events as the real deal you will have a very distorted view on life.
I've realized not to take any movie as historical or accurate since I've watched couple of historical based hollywood and hong-kong made movies and happen to have read the real historical accounts of the period. They are for your entertainment! only that. Inspired by the movie? it's okay. Believe it as an accurate representation of what really happened? No way.
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
herzog very free today? ho say boh?
OK lah....
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:Zwei there is no living man born without a soul. None. No soul no life.
How can you be so sure? In fact, according to ancient Hebrew oral traditions, the end time comes when people are born without souls.
Ok lor, grandmaster