Originally posted by domonkassyu:
this is what mainstream christianity has taught all along..if mainstream is always right..this is surely wrong.look back in eden..its on earth.1st humans..on earth. book of revelations talk about most people staying on earth also.
the humans going to heaven are few and selected. a hundred and forty four thousands as in the book of revelations. tink not much chance any of us going heaven..but u might wanna check out this site to secure a place?? reserveaspotinheaven.com
About the 144,000 men:
4 These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.
5 And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless.
Chapter 14 in Revelation, copied from this website.
Correct me if i'm wrong, these 144,000 virgin men are the ones who will go to heaven first and entry to heaven does not only limit to 144,000. Those men live their lives to serve GOD.
I have a pastor who is like this, now i know the reason why he chooses to stay single all his life. I no longer go to church though, seeking the truth myself.
Have a think about it, where in the bible does it ever say we go to heaven after we die?
Originally posted by Evangel:About the 144,000 men:
4 These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.
5 And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless.Chapter 14 in Revelation, copied from this website.
Correct me if i'm wrong, these 144,000 virgin men are the ones who will go to heaven first and entry to heaven does not only limit to 144,000. Those men live their lives to serve GOD.
I have a pastor who is like this, now i know the reason why he chooses to stay single all his life. I no longer go to church though, seeking the truth myself.
These 144000 do not go to heaven, but rather are found on Mount Tziyon.
Again, I ask the question, when is it said that we are going to heaven? Even at the end of the book of Revelation, it is told us that The new Yerushalayim, is coming down out of heaven from Yahweh, and that Yahweh will dwell with us. If the Holy City is coming down out of Heaven, then where is it going?
Also, read, Psalm 37, it is very clear where the righteous people go. Rather, the righteous inherit, the EARTH.
Originally posted by domonkassyu:
demons in disguise..demons using animals like a ventriloquist would to help demon worshippers..many mordern mediums still uses this short of demon worshipping.
PLease let me know which part in the bible states what you said above.
Originally posted by breytonhartge:Have a think about it, where in the bible does it ever say we go to heaven after we die?
John 14:1-4
Jesus said to his disciples, "Don't be worried! Have faith in God and have faith in me. There are many rooms in my Father house. I wouldn't tell you this, unless it was true. I'm going there to prepare a place for each of you. after I've done this, I'll come back and take you with me. Then we'll be together. You know the way to where I'm going."
What Jesus meant that we would know the way where He was going is that once risen from death whereever Jesus would be, we would know how to get to Him. Meaning where Jesus could go we would be able to also.
As to where Jesus was going after His death,
John 14:28
You have already heard me say that I am going and that I will also come back to you. If you really love me, you should be glad that I am going back to the Father, because he is greater than I am.
John 13:31-36
I quote verse 36:
Simon Peter asked, "Lord where are you going?"
Jesus answered, "You can't go with me now, but later on you will."
So unless Jesus was lying baout going back to the Father or unless this Father was't the God of Abraham, there are verses who indicated that Jesus meant to say that His followers would be risen to stay with Him who is with the Father in heaven(the place where God lives, called the house of God to the Jews).
Originally posted by Evangel:I no longer go to church though, seeking the truth myself.
Hi Evangel. If you are seeking the turth yourself you would still need to have faith in God.
I hope by you having faith in God that you would find the truth yourself as God is the living God. He still works now just as He did in the past or thousands year past.
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:John 14:1-4
Jesus said to his disciples, "Don't be worried! Have faith in God and have faith in me. There are many rooms in my Father house. I wouldn't tell you this, unless it was true. I'm going there to prepare a place for each of you. after I've done this, I'll come back and take you with me. Then we'll be together. You know the way to where I'm going."
What Jesus meant that we would know the way where He was going is that once risen from death whereever Jesus would be, we would know how to get to Him. Meaning where Jesus could go we would be able to also.
As to where Jesus was going after His death,
John 14:28
You have already heard me say that I am going and that I will also come back to you. If you really love me, you should be glad that I am going back to the Father, because he is greater than I am.
John 13:31-36
I quote verse 36:
Simon Peter asked, "Lord where are you going?"
Jesus answered, "You can't go with me now, but later on you will."
So unless Jesus was lying baout going back to the Father or unless this Father was't the God of Abraham, there are verses who indicated that Jesus meant to say that His followers would be risen to stay with Him who is with the Father in heaven(the place where God lives, called the house of God to the Jews).
MP,
Clarification. House of Yahweh to the Jews is the Temple, which has been destroyed. Icy correct me if I am wrong.
Revelation 21:1-4
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John,[a] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Revelation 3:12
He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of
My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and
the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of
heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
MP, have a think about it.
These two verses that you used still do not show me that we will go to heaven when it is all said and done. If you read Psalm 37 it is very clear where we will be, here on earth after it is all said and done and the verses in Revelation Chapter 21, support this more so than "going" to heaven.The righteous will inherit the earth, the meek shall inherit the earth.
Following on from your verses, if Yeshua is going back to the Father, and according to Revelation, the Father is coming down to dwell with us. Where will we be?
there should not be any dispute that humans will dwell on earth as the meek will inherit the earth..clear cut. we know also that at least 144 000 will go to heaven as joint heirs with JC. to rule with him as kings.
the rest of the humans who repent stays on earth..
as for civilgoh..satan used the snake as a ventriloquist would to a puppet is it not? back in genesis.. =)
But seems like the verses are before Jesus' died and risen. Do you all think Jesus' death and ressurection have made any changes to death for believers after tat?
Originally posted by breytonhartge:MP,
Clarification. House of Yahweh to the Jews is the Temple, which has been destroyed. Icy correct me if I am wrong.
Revelation 21:1-4
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John,[a] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Revelation 3:12
He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.MP, have a think about it.
These two verses that you used still do not show me that we will go to heaven when it is all said and done. If you read Psalm 37 it is very clear where we will be, here on earth after it is all said and done and the verses in Revelation Chapter 21, support this more so than "going" to heaven.The righteous will inherit the earth, the meek shall inherit the earth.
Following on from your verses, if Yeshua is going back to the Father, and according to Revelation, the Father is coming down to dwell with us. Where will we be?
the temple of jerusalem is indeed destroyed. but, JC also said that he would rebuild it in 3 days. many did not understand that he meant his body is the new temple of jerusalem. and when he came back frm the dead 3 days later..the temple is indeed rebuilt in 3 days.
Originally posted by breytonhartge:MP,
Clarification. House of Yahweh to the Jews is the Temple, which has been destroyed. Icy correct me if I am wrong.
In the old testament and Torah heaven is called syamayim which means the sky a place God is believed to dwell.
I quote Kings 8:30-32
I am your servant, and the people of Israel belong to you. So whenever any of us look towards this temple and pray, answer from your home in heaven and forgive our sins.
Suppose someone accuses a person of a crime, and the accused has to stand in front of the altar in your temple and say, "I swear I am innocent!". Listen from heaven and decide who is right. Then punish the guilty person and let the innocent one go free.
Originally posted by bang_sai:But seems like the verses are before Jesus' died and risen. Do you all think Jesus' death and ressurection have made any changes to death for believers after tat?
This is a very good question.
For his twelve well actually eleven disciples Jesus said that for a moment they would no longer see Him but after a moment(short time) they would again see and be with Him.
also there were the two convicts which were nailed to the crossed alongside Jesus. One of them believed in Jesus and defended him. Jesus said that this very day he would be with Him in paradise (Luke 23:39-43). But Matthew and Mark made no mention of this and wrote the two criminals both said cruel things to Jesus.
But again as I wrote in my previous post Jesus also spoke that He would raise His people on the last day.
Originally posted by domonkassyu:there should not be any dispute that humans will dwell on earth as the meek will inherit the earth..clear cut. we know also that at least 144 000 will go to heaven as joint heirs with JC. to rule with him as kings.
the rest of the humans who repent stays on earth..
as for civilgoh..satan used the snake as a ventriloquist would to a puppet is it not? back in genesis.. =)
YOu say only but no bible verses to support, how to believe you.
Originally posted by Civilgoh:YOu say only but no bible verses to support, how to believe you.
like i said..read in genesis..the part where eve was talking to a snake..im no bible quoting machine. but if u really know the bible, u know such incidents took place..how many pefect 1st woman, wife of adam was there talking to a damned talking snake in the bible???
here..genesis 3:1-6
what's the dispute?
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:what's the dispute?
yoz dumbdumb..got many.which u mean?
Originally posted by domonkassyu:
like i said..read in genesis..the part where eve was talking to a snake..im no bible quoting machine. but if u really know the bible, u know such incidents took place..how many pefect 1st woman, wife of adam was there talking to a damned talking snake in the bible???here..genesis 3:1-6
but one can't just assume it is and so it is so. funny.
Originally posted by Civilgoh:
but one can't just assume it is and so it is so. funny.
ok..my bad..since there is ONLY 1 perfect woman talking to a "talking" snake in the entire bible..i thought it was safe to assume people would know as it was after all the ONLY such incident..really im very sorry to cause such confusion for the ONLY incident..i hope to seek your kind understanding on this incident regarding the assumption of people who knows a certain degree on the bible to also know the ONLY incident of the damn snake..i profusely apologize to u too..
and i also included the quote.. =)