how on earth did your friend quit?!?!?!?!?
address to snowfox 1st.. my friend was sth like ex comm from the mosque.his religious teachers refused to talk to him..his parents talk to him cuz he is their son after all..his id still reflect muslim cuz hard to change bah.he is a muslim by name only nw..but i suspect in heart,he is more muslim than any1.....
Jesus did claim to be GOD. In fact, he made it very obvious in
John 8:58, "before Abraham was born, i am".
Using that very distinct name God reserved for Himself in Exodus 3:14 and throughout the OT, to leave no room for misunderstanding.---24/7
the name of God(not withstanding trinity) is Yod Heh Wah Heh in hebrew. I am is not his name. though when asked by moses what was his name. God replied him as i m who i m. a study into the same words Yodh Heh Wah Heh revealed 2 things.
1stly, it appeared more than a few thousands time total in both OT n NT.i tink is ard 6k+...
2ndly, names have a meaning, example michael meant who is like God and daniel meant my judge is God, and God's name was unique as in it meant he who purpose.so he will become whatever he purpose to be. so rather than seeing "i m" throughout the bible,the actual verse actually used Yodh Heh Wah Heh.
In fact, it was so obvious that the Jews stoned him (refer to Lev 24:16), cuz that was the punishment for those guilty of blaspheming the name of God. I dont think Jews would stone him just because they thought he meant he existed before Abraham.
John 10:30 "I and the Father are one." -->
This isn’t talking about unity in purpose or vision because later in v33, the Jews said they stoned him for blasphemy because he claimed to be GOD.---24/7
in fact JC made many mention that he and the Father are one. but indeed he meant in purpose. cuz in another verse, he said he is in one with daddy.the people are in 1 with JC. therefore the poeple are in 1 with daddy. are we to say it is more than a trinity now? but legions?
John 10:33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."---24/7
the stoning of JC by the rabbis was a political move. what more justifying reason and serious crime than labelling JC as the bloke who claim Godhood??sure to fire up the rest of the jews who dont know whole story..
Ok, even if i dont' use the Gospel of John to make this point. Let's look at Mark
Mark 2:5, "When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven." Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?" Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, "Why are you thinking these things? Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, take your mat and walk'? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...."
Very strong statement of divine authority. Everybody knows that only God can forgive sins, yet Jesus says it like it is right in front of them!
Did Jesus say he was God? Certainly! He did what only God can do. Not merely simple stuff like making the Pharisees angry.---24/7
in the bible, words like your sins have forgiven you were oso found is it not? that of cuz does not mean sins= God.and also you quoted "may know that the Son of Man has authority", Son of man.remember God has no beginning. it also says SoM has authority.meaning it is given to him. BUT, is JC said SoM is the authority..i will surely end the question of he being God. JC is a perfect man.(not withstanding he is the direct creation of God),perfect man uses 100% of his brain all the time and is able to do so.how he choose his words does not result in confusion.
the miracles of JC did was chasing out demons, healing,resurrecting most impt is the forgiveness of sins. the first few miracles have been done by many men of God..i dont even wanna say the faith healers of now as they are false.BUT forgiveness of sins are only done by 2 so far, namely Yodh Heh Wah Heh and Yeshua. We now know Yodh Heh Wah Heh is God so he has the right. and that authority is granted to Yeshua,thus making him able to do so too.
sory for the long post and lack of bible quotes..i never memorise the bible like you all..paiseh...
Originally posted by snowfoxx:how on earth did your friend quit?!?!?!?!?
hmm in singapore.. not too bad. i've heard in malaysia u can be arrested..
Originally posted by domonkassyu:address to snowfox 1st.. my friend was sth like ex comm from the mosque.his religious teachers refused to talk to him..his parents talk to him cuz he is their son after all..his id still reflect muslim cuz hard to change bah.he is a muslim by name only nw..but i suspect in heart,he is more muslim than any1.....
Jesus did claim to be GOD. In fact, he made it very obvious in
John 8:58, "before Abraham was born, i am".
Using that very distinct name God reserved for Himself in Exodus 3:14 and throughout the OT, to leave no room for misunderstanding.---24/7
the name of God(not withstanding trinity) is Yod Heh Wah Heh in hebrew. I am is not his name. though when asked by moses what was his name. God replied him as i m who i m. a study into the same words Yodh Heh Wah Heh revealed 2 things.
1stly, it appeared more than a few thousands time total in both OT n NT.i tink is ard 6k+...
2ndly, names have a meaning, example michael meant who is like God and daniel meant my judge is God, and God's name was unique as in it meant he who purpose.so he will become whatever he purpose to be. so rather than seeing "i m" throughout the bible,the actual verse actually used Yodh Heh Wah Heh.
In fact, it was so obvious that the Jews stoned him (refer to Lev 24:16), cuz that was the punishment for those guilty of blaspheming the name of God. I dont think Jews would stone him just because they thought he meant he existed before Abraham.
John 10:30 "I and the Father are one." -->
This isn’t talking about unity in purpose or vision because later in v33, the Jews said they stoned him for blasphemy because he claimed to be GOD.---24/7
in fact JC made many mention that he and the Father are one. but indeed he meant in purpose. cuz in another verse, he said he is in one with daddy.the people are in 1 with JC. therefore the poeple are in 1 with daddy. are we to say it is more than a trinity now? but legions?
John 10:33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."---24/7
the stoning of JC by the rabbis was a political move. what more justifying reason and serious crime than labelling JC as the bloke who claim Godhood??sure to fire up the rest of the jews who dont know whole story..
Ok, even if i dont' use the Gospel of John to make this point. Let's look at Mark
Mark 2:5, "When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven." Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?" Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, "Why are you thinking these things? Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, take your mat and walk'? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...."
Very strong statement of divine authority. Everybody knows that only God can forgive sins, yet Jesus says it like it is right in front of them!
Did Jesus say he was God? Certainly! He did what only God can do. Not merely simple stuff like making the Pharisees angry.---24/7
in the bible, words like your sins have forgiven you were oso found is it not? that of cuz does not mean sins= God.and also you quoted "may know that the Son of Man has authority", Son of man.remember God has no beginning. it also says SoM has authority.meaning it is given to him. BUT, is JC said SoM is the authority..i will surely end the question of he being God. JC is a perfect man.(not withstanding he is the direct creation of God),perfect man uses 100% of his brain all the time and is able to do so.how he choose his words does not result in confusion.
the miracles of JC did was chasing out demons, healing,resurrecting most impt is the forgiveness of sins. the first few miracles have been done by many men of God..i dont even wanna say the faith healers of now as they are false.BUT forgiveness of sins are only done by 2 so far, namely Yodh Heh Wah Heh and Yeshua. We now know Yodh Heh Wah Heh is God so he has the right. and that authority is granted to Yeshua,thus making him able to do so too.
sory for the long post and lack of bible quotes..i never memorise the bible like you all..paiseh...
the gospel of john is sufficient. =)
Matthiew talks about Jesus the King
Mark talks about Jesus the servant
Luke talks about Jesus the perfect Man
John talks about Jesus is God.
Originally posted by domonkassyu:hi all..i was discussing about religious harmony the govt worked so hard to maintain with my friend. and we kinda got stuck when we talk about islam,judaism and christianity.he's a muslim that wants to quit his religion and im still observing religions.
what we found was....
islamic allah is the God of abraham
judaism God is the God of abraham
christianity God( at least 1 of the 3) is the God of abraham.
so the qn is,do they worship the same God? is it just a war of different sects like within christianity?
hope to get some informative replies from here. thanks
There is only 1 God. One. Many lesser evil spirits but only one living God.
Christian worship 1 God, the God of Abraham. Christian never worship more than 1 God(this is one of the misleading thing of Christianity). When Catholics pray to saints those prayers are not intended as worship.
Yes we have Jesus but hold on, Jesus is no mere holy person. To Christian Jesus is divine, Godly, a God who became flesh. Jesus is the messiah God incarnated to redeem the world from sins. If you look at religious text none has ever done what Jesus had and still is. Walking on water, turning water into wine, calming the wind and sea, raising the dead, knowing the future, etc. No character in any religious text has done what Jesus did for the few years that He in service. He is the one without sin ever, the one whose face shines, His glory, the impenetrable light that surrounds Him.
As with holyspirit we Chrisitians never worship the holyspirit but we worship through the holyspirit.
Most men and people do not know God(because that is exactly the intention of God). Men could be religious in that they observe religious procedure and customs but yet doesn't know anything about God(no personal knowledge and doesn't fear God). And most religions have been abused in the past, still are and will always be.
if holy spirit is also God, then dont worship it too?? no offense but, dont you all find what you post kinda self conflicting? also, one would realize there is no equity among the 3 Gods.1 is supreme,1 is lesser,1 is extra..
Originally posted by domonkassyu:if holy spirit is also God, then dont worship it too?? no offense but, dont you all find what you post kinda self conflicting? also, one would realize there is no equity among the 3 Gods.1 is supreme,1 is lesser,1 is extra..
nope. rank wise they're the same. as in.. They're one entity. Different functions. But, lol i definitely find it funny the way you phrased it.
1 supreme, 1 lesser and 1 extra. lol dunno why i smiled at the word extra.
I don't think I can explain it really well, as in technical and stuff. God's too complicated to be broken down into a blueprint. i just.. understand? And I believe speaking to 1, you're speaking to all 3, since they are 3-in-1
Like... I ask the HS for empowerment in the spirit, I ask the HS to be present where we are, during a cell meeting. The role of the HS is to empower christians, that's how Jesus put it. The HS is the councillor, the helper, we can't live a victorious christian life if we do things apart from the HS.
Jesus' role was to die to take the sins of man, and as well, as since He is the Word of God, we were told that the world was created through Him. But saying that, that doesn't mean that the Father or the HS weren't involved. God created the world, after all. I'm not sure if i described it properly? can?
Question: "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim
to be God?"
Answer: Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the
exact words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim
that He is God.
People can then go on to quote verses that imply that Jesus is God.
For me, it's very simple: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:16-18)
God's only begotten Son is Jesus Christ.
Don’t study the bible until PHD(permanent head damage). I do not think this is the intention of God.
Originally posted by snowfoxx:a muslim can't quit ISLAM, as far as i know, i heard in some countries, they EVEN killed these people.
The thrumb of rules is that once you ARE A MUSLIM, you will FOREVER be one, AND ALL YOUR FUTURE GENERATIONS WILL BE MUSLIMS, whelter they like it or not,
great huh, very kick ass right?
NO CHOICE
That is a silly conclusion made by muslim caricatures everywhere and whoever that had bought into the moral rectitude promoted by them.
Perhaps in their very kick ass fervor, it is forgotten that every muslim religious activity has to be preceded with a professed niyat, intention. If that isn't sincere, whatever religious undertaking it is, it wouldn't be considered accepted.
I would say it really is useless to force anyone to be muslim when the heart isn't there.
Originally posted by Chin Eng:Depending on who you are asking.....
- Allah is NOT the same God as depicted in the Old Testament.
Also depending on who you are asking....
- There will never be peace between Judaism/Christianity and Muslims based on the prophecy on Esau and Jacob.
More on who you asking....
- There will never be peace between true-blue Jews and Christians because of the personage of Jesus....
there is hatred, but differences can be resolved, why take hatred to another level? inspiring to be a sucide bomber? spread love not war
Originally posted by Gauze:That is a silly conclusion made by muslim caricatures everywhere and whoever that had bought into the moral rectitude promoted by them.
Perhaps in their very kick ass fervor, it is forgotten that every muslim religious activity has to be preceded with a professed niyat, intention. If that isn't sincere, whatever religious undertaking it is, it wouldn't be considered accepted.
I would say it really is useless to force anyone to be muslim when the heart isn't there.
well said thrumbs up, how wonderful the world will be if everyone thinks like this?
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:nope. rank wise they're the same. as in.. They're one entity. Different functions. But, lol i definitely find it funny the way you phrased it.
1 supreme, 1 lesser and 1 extra. lol dunno why i smiled at the word extra.
I don't think I can explain it really well, as in technical and stuff. God's too complicated to be broken down into a blueprint. i just.. understand? And I believe speaking to 1, you're speaking to all 3, since they are 3-in-1
Like... I ask the HS for empowerment in the spirit, I ask the HS to be present where we are, during a cell meeting. The role of the HS is to empower christians, that's how Jesus put it. The HS is the councillor, the helper, we can't live a victorious christian life if we do things apart from the HS.
Jesus' role was to die to take the sins of man, and as well, as since He is the Word of God, we were told that the world was created through Him. But saying that, that doesn't mean that the Father or the HS weren't involved. God created the world, after all. I'm not sure if i described it properly? can?
No need to describe so much. The church fathers and theologians have already done it.
If anyone is interested, he/she can read up on the various controversies in the early church, like the Arian heresy, and see how the church fathers settled the issue.
Here, I present what the WCF has to say:
3. In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost: the Father is of none, neither begotten, not proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.
The role of Christ is that of a mediator.
2. The Son of God, the second person in the Trinity, being very and eternal God, of one substance and equal with the Father, did, when the fulness of time was come, take upon Him man's nature, with all the essential properties, and common infirmities thereof, yet without sin; being conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost, in the womb of the virgin Mary, of her substance. So that two whole, perfect, and distinct natures, the Godhead and the manhood, were inseparably joined together in one person, without conversion, composition, or confusion. Which person is very God, and very man, yet one Christ, the only Mediator between God and man.
And the following point is the most important of all. We can yaya about the precise nature of the Trinity, but not the fact that Christ purchased redemption for His elect:
8. To all those for whom Christ hath purchased redemption, he doth certainly and effectually apply and communicate the same; making intercession for them, and revealing unto them, in and by the word, the mysteries of salvation; effectively persuading them by his Spirit to believe and obey, and governing their hearts by his word and Spirit; overcoming all their enemies by his almighty power and wisdom, in such manner, and ways, as are most consonant to his wonderful and unsearchable dispensation.
And note that the elect had existed before Christ, from the beginning of the world:
6. Although the work of redemption was not actually wrought by Christ till after His incarnation, yet the virtue, efficacy, and benefits thereof were communicated unto the elect, in all ages successively from the beginning of the world, in and by those promises, types, and sacrifices, wherein He was revealed, and signified to be the seed of the woman which should bruise the serpent's head; and the Lamb slain from the beginning of the world; being yesterday and to-day the same, and for ever.
lol. too chim la.. i don't get it.
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:lol. too chim la.. i don't get it.
which part?
or you want to read what the church fathers wrote? lol
Originally posted by Icemoon:
which part?or you want to read what the church fathers wrote? lol
haha it's ok i got it now. wasn't reading la, was skimming earlier.
actually i wanted to explain abit more about Jesus being the Word of God. like God created the world right? and He did so through the Word, who is also God.
it's just so hard to explain the trinity. =x
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:actually i wanted to explain abit more about Jesus being the Word of God. like God created the world right? and He did so through the Word, who is also God.
Haha, this part is tricky.
I probably write something about that, as a counter to 24/7 reply. :P
Originally posted by 24/7:Jesus did claim to be GOD. In fact, he made it very obvious in
Using that very distinct name God reserved for Himself in Exodus 3:14 and throughout the OT, to leave no room for misunderstanding.
In fact, it was so obvious that the Jews stoned him (refer to Lev 24:16), cuz that was the punishment for those guilty of blaspheming the name of God. I dont think Jews would stone him just because they thought he meant he existed before Abraham.
Ok, let's find some common grounds first. Things that are indisputable:
1. Jesus, like the rabbis in Jewish tradition, spoke in parables. So they won't reply you directly, instead they answer a question with another question, until we have more questions than before.
If Jesus were to be interrogated by our police today, he'd probably get few tight slaps for not answering the question whether He is God or not.
2. The Pharisees in the Gospels did not understand Jesus, neither did they truly understood God.
Regardless of the identity of Jesus, the above point is *always* correct. Jesus may or may not be God, but the Pharisees did not understand God, this there can be no dispute.
Ok, let's go on to your verses.
It is incorrect to say that God reserved Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh for Himself in Exodus 3:14 and throughout the OT. I leave you to browse through the concordance - http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H01961&t=KJV
Throughout the OT, the only name God reserved for Himself is the sacred Tetragammaton. God did not even reserve Elohim.
Technically, Jesus did not even quote Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh in full (in Aramaic or Greek).
I quote you the view of certain scholars:
However, against this view it has also been argued that few scholars today would say that there is a connection between the “I am” in this context and the divine name. Edwin Freed explains, “the meaning of the sentence in the mind of the writer was: 'Before Abraham was, I, the Christ, the Son of God, existed.” William Loader notes that the “text need mean no more than I am and was in existence before Abraham, still a majestic unique claim but not an allusion to the divine name.” The Simple English Bible paraphrases it as, “I am the Messiah.” K.L. McKay notes, “The emphatic words used by Jesus in the passages referred to above [including John 8:58] are perfectly natural in their contexts, and they do not echo the words of Exodus 3:14 in the normally quoted Greek version.”
This argument, however, only negates a direct link between Jesus' utterance of "I Am" and the divine name of the tetragrammaton. The phrase itself, "I am," is stated by Yahweh independently of the tetragrammaton, and is literally repeated by Jesus.
Jesus goes on throughout the New Testament ascribing his deity by the use of this word: I am… bread of life, I am… light of the world, I am… from above, I am… the door, I am… good shepherd, I am… resurrection and the life, I am… way, the truth and the life, I am… true vine, I am… Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty, I am… first and the last, I am… he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, I am… he which searcheth the reins and hearts, I am… root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Back to my point 2, it is also presumptous to use the Pharisees' reaction to determine whether Jesus claimed to be God, or not.
Originally posted by 24/7:Ok, even if i dont' use the Gospel of John to make this point. Let's look at Mark
Mark 2:5, "When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven." Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?" Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, "Why are you thinking these things? Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, take your mat and walk'? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...."
Very strong statement of divine authority. Everybody knows that only God can forgive sins, yet Jesus says it like it is right in front of them!
Did Jesus say he was God? Certainly! He did what only God can do. Not merely simple stuff like making the Pharisees angry.
For Mark 2:5, Jesus did not reply them directly. And note that Jesus did not grab either horns of the dilemma. ("who can forgive sins but God alone")
Instead Jesus challenged their premise with His reply - "that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"
And the most damning evidence is none of the people start worshipping Jesus!!
i agree with the part that JC will get slapped by mordern police.(" are you God?" , ' i didnt say that, you did")
as mentioned above in the replis, trinity is so hard to explain..and so hard to understand..for those that claims that u understood trinity, can u really explain it to a person with no bible knoledge so much so that s/he will understand?
the bible is kinda an autobiography of God. a book which he wants humans to know and acknowledge his rulership. how much chance is there that he will screw it up by making it as confusing as possible? he knows humans are not perfect and smart like him or any of the angels. he will not inspire a book that twirls human minds in spiral. Unless, certain people in power need something to unite people not in faith of God but unite people for their own selfish gains, twists the word.
No doubt JC is with God all the while for he is the 1st creature of God. just like a loving father teaching a son shaping ceramics, God lovingly empowers the pre human JC to create. it must have been fun for them to spend such times together and watch their labour take shape. until the day God declared all was good in his eyes. must have also pained both of them tremendously when satan and friends turn against God. JC knowing that God must be sad too, volunteer to die for man when the 1st prophesy was uttered in eden. For JC too loved the world.(hey, he put in lots of hardwork to help create you too u know).
thus God send his ONLY BEGOTTEN son to redeem the world. God seeing how much his son love the things they created and loved Him ought to reward him, and getting his son back up is without qn. the reward will be king for a thousand years after armageddon.( dont read this in trinity in mind and it will be much easier to understand)
For Mark 2:5, Jesus did not reply them directly.And note that Jesus did not grab either horns of the dilemma. ("who can forgive sins but God alone") Instead Jesus challenged their premise with His reply - "that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"
Things that are indisputable:
1. Jesus, like the rabbis in Jewish tradition, spoke in parables. So they won't reply you directly, instead they answer a question with another question, until we have more questions than before.
Icemoon:
You've answered yourself and those who ask why Jesus doesnt come out right and declare, "Hey world! I'm God, come get me!"
If he doesnt grab the bull by the horns, im sure you'll know why. To people, this verse and others clearly indicate that He's claiming equality to God.
Did people worship Him in the book of John? Certainly, Icemoon! But im sure you'll say thats not evidence of His deity.
John 9:35-39, 35 Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 "Who is he, sir?" the man asked. "Tell me so that I may believe in him." 37 Jesus said, "You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you." 38 Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.
Did he correct Thomas when he exclaimed, "My Lord and my God!" Nope, he didnt. You know how Jews are not supposed to take the name of God in vain, so to say Thomas exclaimed that in surprise is groundless. Jesus went on to bless him.
Short note:
begotten: humans beget humans, God begets God. Very paganistic and simplistic. But there's nothing wrong with John 3:16 in supporting the idea of Trinity. His nature is identical to that of God's. Does that make Him equal to God? Yes!
Phil 2:6
Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature
Most men and people do not know God(because that is exactly the intention of God).---M&P
agree on most men even in the faith do not know God. but can elaborate on y that is the intent of God? then what for He gave us the bible? doesnt knowing him,having faith and love him him and doing his word saves us? if he dun wan us to know him den how to do all those?? if he dun wan us to know him, y he mention his name over 6000 times in the bible?
begotten: humans beget humans, God begets God. Very paganistic and simplistic. But there's nothing wrong with John 3:16 in supporting the idea of Trinity. His nature is identical to that of God's. Does that make Him equal to God? Yes!---24/7
maybe u forgotten God has no begining. so there is no logic in God begets God. that would make the begotten God a lesser god. and not almighty. john 3:16 makes no explict notion that JC is God either. having an identical nature do not = to being the same person. just like twins or close friends who have identical nature. does that makes them the same and 1 person? also, your last statement..remember God has no equal..
i think u can't just take one verse that doesn't explicitly says that Jesus is God and ignore the rest that says that He is God. Especially if it's from the same book written by the same person.
John 1
The Word Became Flesh
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John made it very clear from the begining. Jesus Is God. Fullstop.
before he even begin to write about other stuff..
and this comparison about paganistic etc.. i think you're using... paganistic ideals to benchmark God, (oh, paganistic powers did this, and God did something like this, so God is either paganistic or imitating pagan's powers, that's why i don't think it's a good idea to follow Him) when you should have understood that all paganistic powers are actually a poor imitation of God's power.
satan's power is a poor imitation of God's power, if you read exodus.
satan has always been trying to imitate God, whether it's about power, or glory, or looks.. if there are any slight similarities in power demostration or practice, it's not because God is paganistic, but it's because satan has been imitating God's practices and power to appear like Him.
God made the staff of moses turn into a snake, satan did it too, God turned the river into blood, satan tried to do the same. until God come out more power, satan cannot mimic already.
so because the magicians can turn their staffs into snakes via satan's power, and God turned moses staff into a snake, does that make God appear paganistic?
back to studying
Originally posted by domonkassyu:Most men and people do not know God(because that is exactly the intention of God).---M&P
agree on most men even in the faith do not know God. but can elaborate on y that is the intent of God? then what for He gave us the bible? doesnt knowing him,having faith and love him him and doing his word saves us? if he dun wan us to know him den how to do all those?? if he dun wan us to know him, y he mention his name over 6000 times in the bible?
begotten: humans beget humans, God begets God. Very paganistic and simplistic. But there's nothing wrong with John 3:16 in supporting the idea of Trinity. His nature is identical to that of God's. Does that make Him equal to God? Yes!---24/7
maybe u forgotten God has no begining. so there is no logic in God begets God. that would make the begotten God a lesser god. and not almighty. john 3:16 makes no explict notion that JC is God either. having an identical nature do not = to being the same person. just like twins or close friends who have identical nature. does that makes them the same and 1 person? also, your last statement..remember God has no equal..
Isaiah 45:15
Truly you are a God who hides himself, O God and Savior of Israel.
I do not really know why God decided to hide Himself from humanity. Perhaps because God for reasons that I do not understand have decided to put faith into a very important part of having a relationship with Him. You see God could work on everyone despite the person being faithless. Had He wanted to let every living men on earth to see Him now that would not be a problem imo. And even when God reveals something of Himself to anyone that revelation would likely not to be complete so that no one has a complete picture of understanding of God.
I know that Jesus is God because I had been given a vision of Jesus when I was in my 7th grade. From what I saw I know that Jesus is God. Of course there is no way I could show you what I saw so this remains a personal revelation for me.
You see you cannot approach God with logic. Do you think we humans are a very logical being? Tell me then why have we destroyed our own planet? For the sake of our wealth? What's the logic of destroying our planet for the sake of personal gain?
Do you know that most people buy things not because they need it but because they think they need it for whatever reason. You see even our spending habit doesn't reflect us as being of logic.
Do you know that the very concept of hobby is illogical?
You know the most logic could do is to exploit its observation of the law of nature. It could not answer everything on any subject of study. So logic is the observance of the law of nature and technology is the appliance of logic into machinery to exploit the knowledge gained from the observation derived from logic.
I do not write this to belittle logic or technology but come on logic is not everything, actually it is everything if we could have perfect understanding of everything but that is not possible thus our logic is not everything.
And I believe that if men could have perfect understanding of everythng then the existence of God would be very very logical indeed.
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:i think u can't just take one verse that doesn't explicitly says that Jesus is God and ignore the rest that says that He is God. Especially if it's from the same book written by the same person.
John made it very clear from the begining. Jesus Is God. Fullstop.
before he even begin to write about other stuff..
and this comparison about paganistic etc.. i think you're using... paganistic ideals to benchmark God, (oh, paganistic powers did this, and God did something like this, so God is either paganistic or imitating pagan's powers, that's why i don't think it's a good idea to follow Him) when you should have understood that all paganistic powers are actually a poor imitation of God's power.
satan's power is a poor imitation of God's power, if you read exodus.
satan has always been trying to imitate God, whether it's about power, or glory, or looks.. if there are any slight similarities in power demostration or practice, it's not because God is paganistic, but it's because satan has been imitating God's practices and power to appear like Him.
God made the staff of moses turn into a snake, satan did it too, God turned the river into blood, satan tried to do the same. until God come out more power, satan cannot mimic already.
so because the magicians can turn their staffs into snakes via satan's power, and God turned moses staff into a snake, does that make God appear paganistic?
back to studying
yoz dd..hows ur studying??your extract of john 1..no matter how i look supports not the idea of trinity wor..
through him all things were made..etc..it appears that JC was a medium between the forging power and the items being forged. just like how a manufactuer makes products based on clients orders.
then came a man from God,hes john.does not that part also describe JC role? to witness God's right of sovereignty.(besides the main quest of dying for us) and again it was stated JC came from the father.