A Biblical Contradiction?
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Originally posted by newcomer:
can i just do all the bad stuffs first before knowing god? i don't want to waste the sins and vices i'm entitled to. :)
we are all like that ah, before knowing God, all doing the wrong things, all living lives of sin. If God forgave me, why wouldn't He forgive you. He isn't bias, that's the nice part.
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Originally posted by domonkassyu:
haha. can erm.. tidy up your passage? abit hard to read, and very confusing, dunno which one is yours and mine and newcomer etc. use the quotation option?--dumb
paiseh...i still new here..dun knw how or use all the quote or what..bu i will leave a gap between yours and mine..or i put your nick at the end of yours and nth at mine lor..
Wow...I'm impressed...tell me something definitive abt wat was written by a god and i'll believe you. Bear in mind that you may not understand cos we are all inferior. Unless you suggest that some are more inferrior than others, share with us who they might be. Difinitively of course....nehp
nothing was written by God literally..all authors are divinely inspired..heck, God oso only sent angels to tell the writers what He wanted to say..n of cuz we all inferior to God..as for who inferior ar../me points to self then to great crowd..and says you, you and you all lor..
kk. not as clear cut as maths but that'll do.
so that means i can party all my life and when i'm dying i'll just utter a word of prayer and i can go to heaven rite?newcomer
nope..like i said,heaven is not the final destination..at least not for most of us anyways..even if u sinned all life.but at deathbed u TRULY REPENT your sins..God will take you back to his fold. if not give u the bible for wat??
you can use the gear picture on the right. click on it, then quote.
i think i agree.
and just a bible verse:
Do not be deceived, God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction. The one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Everyone makes mistakes, before knowing Christ we don't know any better. Paul murdered christians, some join gangs, some chopped others, some took drugs, some not so severe. Just maybe telling lies.. or smoked a cigarette or two..
But God loves us all the same, not because of what we do, but because of who He is. But if you, upon knowing the love of God, takes advantage of that love.. how much do you really love God?
the right faith produces the right love, which automatically produces good works which proves your salvation. Salvation is still by faith, but good works done with love, is a good indication of where you stand before God. a good tree bears good fruit, a bad tree bears bad fruits.. etc. =)
just an example, my dad's a gambler, not very heavy, but still a gambler, upon receiving Christ, he immediately stopped. not because he is afraid he will lose his salvation if he gambled, but he just knew that it wasn't what God want for him, so he just stopped, with the help of the Holy Spirit.
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ahhzz...use the gear..thanks for the info dumbdumb... =)
for the rest...remember john 3:16 if i remember correctly.. For God Love the world so much that he sent his only be-gotten son............
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Originally posted by domonkassyu:
nothing was written by God literally..all authors are divinely inspired..heck, God oso only sent angels to tell the writers what He wanted to say..n of cuz we all inferior to God..as for who inferior ar../me points to self then to great crowd..and says you, you and you all lor..
I bet Angel7030'll be so bloody honoured!!!!But which one? This angel here is serial number 7030 leh....I also wanna apply as an Angel....can travel the world, buy nice stuffs, pull along a small Samsonite, etc...See the world from a different vantage point
The world at your doorstep.
The chance to experience new cultures and meet new people. Challenges that are real and exciting.This is what you can look forward to as a Cabin Crew with Singapore Airlines.
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"I HAVE WON THE VICTORY"
God's Promise In The Empty Tomb
His Birth
The words of King Herod when told of the birth of Jesus.
"Kill him. There is room for only one king in this corner of the world."
The number of religious leaders who believed a messiah had been born in Bethlehem. Zero.
The type of people who did. Some stargazers, night-shift sheperds, and a couple of newlyweds who claimed to have more expereience giving birth than having sex.
The reward given to Joseph and Mary for bringing God into the world. Two years in exile, learning Egyptian.
This was the beginning of the Christian movement. (And these were the calm years.)
His Ministry
The word on the streets of Jesus' hometown when he claimed to be sent from God. Wierd family. Have you seen his cousin?
The reaction of the hometown folks. Stone him.
The opinion of his brothers. Lock him up.
The number of disciples Jesus recruited. Seventy.
The number of disciples who defended him to the authorities. Zero.
The assessment of Jesus' followers as found in the Jerusalem editorial page. A group of unemployed ne'er-do-wells recruited off the shipping docks and out of the red-light districts.
The numbers of lepers and blind and lame people Jesus healed. Too many to count.
The number of healed lepers and blind and lame people who defended Jesus on the day of his death. Zero.
His Execution
The popular opinion regarding Jesus before he cleansed the Temple. See if he'll run for office.
The popular opinion regarding Jesus after he cleansed the Temple. Let's see how fast he can run.
The decision of the Jewish council. Three spikes and a spear.
The talk on the streets of Jerusalem after Jesus died. He should've stayed in the furniture business.
The number of times Jesus prophesied that he would come back to life three days after his death. Three.
The number of apostles who heard the prophecy. All of them.
The number of apostles who waited at the tomb to see if he would do what he said. Zero.
The number of his followers who believed in the resurrection before it occurred. You do the math.
The odds a street-corner bookie would've given the day after the crucifixion on the possibility that Jesus' name would be known in the year 2000. "I'll give you better odds that he'll rise from the dead."
His Movement
The official response of the Jewish leaders to the rumors of the resurrection. Of course they say he's alive. They have to. What else can they say?
The actual response of the Jewish leaders to the resurrection of Jesus. "A great number of the Jewish priests believed and obeyed" (Acts 6:7)
The decision of the Jewish leaders about the church. "If their plan comes from human authority, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop them" (Acts 5:38-39)
The response of the church. "The number of followers was growing" (Acts 6:1)
The official response of the Jewish leaders to the conversion of Saul. Good riddance to the former Pharisee. Won't be months before he is in jail, and then what will he do? Write letters?
What Saul, turned Paul, understood that his former colleagues didn't. "God gave [Jesus] as a way to forgive sin" (Rom 3:25)
The Movement Continues
The belief of French philosopher Voltaire. The bible and Christianity would pass within a hundred years. He died in 1778. The movement continues.
The pronouncement of Friedrich Nietzsche in 1882. "God is dead." The dawn of science, he believed, would be the doom of faith. Science has dawned; the movement continues.
The way a Communist dictionary defined the Bible. "It is a collection of fantastic legends without any scientific support." Communism is diminishing; the movement continues.
The discovery made by every person who has tried to bury the faith. The same as the one made by those who tried to bury its Founder; He won't stay in the tomb.
The facts. The movement has never been stronger. Over one billion Catholics and nearly as many Protestants.
The question. How do we explain it? Jesus was a backwater peasant. He never wrote a book, never held an office. He never journeyed more than two hundred miles from his hometown. Friends left him. One betrayed him. Those he helped forgot him. Prior to his death, they abandoned him. But after his death they couldn't resist him. What made the difference?
The answer. His death and resurrection.
For when he died, so did your sin.
And when he rose, so did your hope.
For when he rose, your grave was changed from a final residence to temporary housing.
The reason he did it. The face in your mirror.
The verdict after two millenniums. Herod was right; there is room for only one King.
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show wat??
another point to disapprove christ dont = to God..read again john 3:16..send his only BE-GOTTEN son...i dun knw what begotten means to you..but according to dictionary.com-->
1. (esp. of a male parent) to procreate or generate (offspring). 2. to cause; produce as an effect: a belief that power begets power. God has no beginning. it will totally contradict the bible if to say christ is God when his is be gotten..especially by a sinful mortal..so obvious to see but why no one believes??
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So,the Bible has many versions.
But I still think the translator/translators would
not make that sort of mistake if the original
version in Hebrew was clear enough.The
King himself ordered the translation,hence
we are inclined to believe that the translating
was done meticulously.Moreover,this is not an
ordinary book,but a supposedly divinely-inspired
record revered even by kings.
What about the other contradictions inthe KJV?
Also due to translation errors?The translators
appointed by the King were that inept?They
didn't check at all?No one discovered all those
contradictions?
Should we then learn ancient Hebrew?
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Originally posted by Uncreated:
So,the Bible has many versions.
But I still think the translator/translators would
not make that sort of mistake if the original
version in Hebrew was clear enough.The
King himself ordered the translation,hence
we are inclined to believe that the translating
was done meticulously.Moreover,this is not an
ordinary book,but a supposedly divinely-inspired
record revered even by kings.
What about the other contradictions inthe KJV?
Also due to translation errors?The translators
appointed by the King were that inept?They
didn't check at all?No one discovered all those
contradictions?
Should we then learn ancient Hebrew?
those are really good questions. but truthfully i didn't look at the website yet. maybe during the holidays when i got time ba.
anyway continue asking and searching. =)
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Originally posted by newcomer:
can i just do all the bad stuffs first before knowing god? i don't want to waste the sins and vices i'm entitled to. :)
What dumbdumb explained to you is correct but there is another thing you need to be concern about. That's relating to "all the bad stuffs". You seems to think that since you can be saved at the last moment, why bother now right ? Enjoy all you want and you know that there's a way out. You are not the only one but be warned that it may be too late as per the taxi example.
Even if bad luck do not fall on one, you need to be warned about such thinking...
You should read Mathew 25:31-46 in which Jesus tells us something about the last judgement.
If you do not have the bible (suggest you find one to read), I give you a simple summary.
Jesus said people will be separate into 2 groups: Sheeps and Goats.
The requirements are based on what they did and what they did not do - such as clothing, feeding, caring etc... for the needy. In short, did you show any love to your neigbour as you would have loved yourself?
He said, if you have done to the least of my brothers or sisters, you have done it to me. I.E. if you have shown love to the needy, you ahve shown love to God.
If you have not done so, you have not shown love to God.
Jesus also summarised the 10 commandements into 2 important commandments :
1. You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind
2. You must love your neighbour as yourself
Is doing all the bad stuff the way to go? When you know God, you will know what is it that He wants from you. Follow His will and you will find that you will led a more meaningful and happier life......
Less sins for sure, but can be happier (If not as happy) as millions of Christians can testify to.
What dumbdumb has told you is the version that salvation is by faith alone (anyway, good faith will lead you to good works)....what I am giving you is the version that salvation is by faith and deeds because James said in James 2:14-26, faith without deeds is dead.
Hope this answered your question : "can i just do all the bad stuffs first before knowing god?"
Why not take the first step to know God by finding out what the faith is all about? Do not rely on hearsay from your friends and relatives. Go straight to a church and speak to a priest or pastor....ask your christians friends for help.
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Anyone wanna join me to temple or not?? Got free beehoon....think go church still must pay the church! ekkekeke....
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hmm.. a personal opinion. the reason why ppl like sin, is because they're trying to fill up something in their lives.
why do people club (not that clubbing is bad, i club too), drink (not that drinking is bad, i drink too), smoke, flirt around, (haha, i don't smoke), spending countless nights making love, and finding none (haven't tried that. wahahaha!)
why do christians stop sinning (or stop at some degree), is because they found someone who can fill up that void in their life. It doesn't mean that they stop totally, they will eventually, if they continue to abide in God and let God love them.
but all in all, God is already waiting for you, to come back to Him. continue searching and asking. =)
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Originally posted by nehpyh:
Anyone wanna join me to temple or not?? Got free beehoon....think go church still must pay the church! ekkekeke....
lol is it? it's up to you to tithe (only apply to christians) if you do so out of love. and honestly, i haven't found it in me to tithe yet. =x
and as for free food (free for church visitors). this is what we have during christmas and easter, not to mention baptism and other special events.
And that's just for the service on easter.
christmas we hold parties (and i'll be sure to invite peaceful people)
anyway, point is, i don't think anyone should be going anywhere just because there is free food la. seems demeaning to the purpose. =)
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to Uncreated
If you really want to point out bilbe contradictions, please use the original text in Hebrew.
Just mentioning the english versions, there are too many translated versions so it is highly unlikely not to have any contradictions
Go read the bible in hebrew and point out any contradictions from the original text
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Originally posted by ChiBet:
to Uncreated
If you really want to point out bilbe contradictions, please use the original text in Hebrew.
Just mentioning the english versions, there are too many translated versions so it is highly unlikely not to have any contradictions
Go read the bible in hebrew and point out any contradictions from the original text
err. lol i am not sure if there's a hebrew bible. i know there's a hebrew torah.
anyway, it's ok to use the english text, because as mrlimkopi says, the bible can defend itself. =) it's whether christians know enough of it or not.
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best is can read hebrew and greek..seriously, my muslim fren and i are lookin for people who can teach hebrew..any ideas where can we go??
the bible can and will defend itself against wrong teachings but usually it is the people that refuse to see it..
the mentality of "sin-while-you-can-repent-on-deathbed" is common. but be forewarned that no one knows when the christ is coming..not even himself(again to show he is not the almighty God). when the Father will for christ to truly come back, it is too late. christ will come like a theif at night so always be prepared.
the bible is translated into an astounding number of languages world wide. and every care is taken to make sure as little translation error happens.however,unless we can read hebrew and greek and get to read the original scripts, all we can do is rely on the ones we have now.
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Originally posted by domonkassyu:
best is can read hebrew and greek..seriously, my muslim fren and i are lookin for people who can teach hebrew..any ideas where can we go??
the bible can and will defend itself against wrong teachings but usually it is the people that refuse to see it..
the mentality of "sin-while-you-can-repent-on-deathbed" is common. but be forewarned that no one knows when the christ is coming..not even himself(again to show he is not the almighty God). when the Father will for christ to truly come back, it is too late. christ will come like a theif at night so always be prepared.
the bible is translated into an astounding number of languages world wide. and every care is taken to make sure as little translation error happens.however,unless we can read hebrew and greek and get to read the original scripts, all we can do is rely on the ones we have now.
lol your best bet would be a jew.
That's why there's a trinity concept, there's only one God, 3 sides to Him.
The Word Became Flesh
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.
6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.[b]
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
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Food!!!!
Definitely better than vegetarian ....so on la...become a Christian la!!!
I'm a humble and ignorant person....so I try to read many books to form a better picture. If one book can do that, it's must be a bible!
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
err. lol i am not sure if there's a hebrew bible. i know there's a hebrew torah.
anyway, it's ok to use the english text, because as mrlimkopi says, the bible can defend itself. =) it's whether christians know enough of it or not.
Ah...misquote...I said teachings can be defended thru bible........all other are words you trying to put into other's mouth.......very bad......
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the mentality of "sin-while-you-can-repent-on-deathbed" is common. but be forewarned that no one knows when the christ is coming..not even himself(again to show he is not the almighty God). when the Father will for christ to truly come back, it is too late. christ will come like a theif at night so always be prepared.
Hi domon,
the Hypostatic Union of Jesus Christ is to be understood. Jesus was fully man (thus he could say he faced tempations, got tired, prayed) and fully GOD (perfect unblemished sacrifice for our sins, walked on water, healed)
Quote:
Jesus is God in human flesh. He is not half God and half man. He is fully divine and fully man. That is, Jesus has two distinct natures: divine and human. Jesus is the Word who was God and was with God and was made flesh, (John 1:1,14).
Two natures, not mixed together, nor combined into a new God-man nature. Separate, yet acting as a unit in one person.
Commonly, Christian cults try to ignore the the two natures of Christ, which makes one wonder what is the basis of their salvation and redemption? That of their founder's?
For instance, the Jehovah's Witnesses focus on Jesus' humanity and ignore His divinity. They tend to quote verses dealing with JC as man and pit them against verses that show that JC is divine. They also commonly claim that the Holy Spirit is more of a force, than anything else.
The rabbit hole really goes much deeper than this.
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Originally posted by Mrlimkopi:
Ah...misquote...I said teachings can be defended thru bible........all other are words you trying to put into other's mouth.......very bad......
tsk tsk... after all the espousal about not feuding... now you are accusing him of putting words into other's mouth... very bad. -
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
err. lol i am not sure if there's a hebrew bible. i know there's a hebrew torah.
anyway, it's ok to use the english text, because as mrlimkopi says, the bible can defend itself. =) it's whether christians know enough of it or not.
there is a hebrew biblehttp://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/hebrew/Bible/
what you had wanted to say was that it will be more accurate to use the original text because it will provide better understanding of the meaning and context of scripture - that is not wrong.
translated and paraphased bible does not give the depth of the original text. also there are many words in hebrew (and aramic and greek) that does not translate well in English.
however practically, it quite difficult to read original hebrew text because we don't know the language, therefore the quick go-about is to refer to concordances and use study Bibles which offer the reader a deeper understanding of the meanings.
who'd want to watch a mandarin version of a Stephen Chow movie if one can watch the one with the original Cantonese dialogue.
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Originally posted by domonkassyu:
best is can read hebrew and greek..seriously, my muslim fren and i are lookin for people who can teach hebrew..any ideas where can we go??
The Hebrew and Greek in the Bible is not the same as the Hebrew and Greek spoken today.The NT was composed in Koine Greek, then if you read Homer that is classical Greek, NOT the same as the Greek today. Just like if I ask you to read ancient Chinese works, you probably curse WTF.
Same for Hebrew. There is Biblical Hebrew, Rabbinical Hebrew and the Hebrew in newspaper.
Even when you have mastered the biblical langauge, there is the exegesis also. The Old Testament reads weird in Hebrew. :P
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Originally posted by 24/7:
Hi domon,
the Hypostatic Union of Jesus Christ is to be understood. Jesus was fully man (thus he could say he faced tempations, got tired, prayed) and fully GOD (perfect unblemished sacrifice for our sins, walked on water, healed)
Ah, the two natures of Christ. In Christianity's early years, dunno how many pple "die" because of that man.Also, when your definition covers all possible scenario, it is as good as no definition at all.
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who'd want to watch a mandarin version of a Stephen Chow movie if one can watch the one with the original Cantonese dialogue.
me..the chinese voice dub sounds funnier..
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
tsk tsk... after all the espousal about not feuding... now you are accusing him of putting words into other's mouth... very bad.Why you did not adress his misquote in the first place leh?