How to Escape From a Snake?
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Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
Another insult eh? you like to insult people eh? hehehehehehe. I would certainly like to repeat my request...but that depends on you to make me wanting it. I do not ask to test God. You think you know everything don't you?
You read in the Bible that Moses' staff turned into snake.
How about you see it now that the eucharist turned into flesh and blood.
http://www.najumary.or.kr/mary/recent/newmiracle-2005.htm
Of course some of you would still cry hoax!!!. And when you finally see God at the end of time you would also still cry hoax. Delusional people I say.
chilli sause on scallop?? yummy ...
the best way to deal with snakes are those professional snake-eaters in my company last time
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Not according to people who receive them
And it's been medically examined too.
I could not even imagine what started the mother of Jesus to cry tears of blood.
I could picture somebody cry heresy LOL. Hoax too LOL
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Originally posted by 24/7:
Hey Icemoon, that's not cool. You're making a sweeping statement, even though you might personally hold that to be true from your religious POV.
It is misleading unless you can prove otherwise.Or else you are a liar! :P
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Originally posted by malcom:
Yes, I guess maybe Moses either think he can or he really can run faster than snake.
He was 80? years old at the Burning Bush. -_-" -
maybe the snake was really actually a big earthworm
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Originally posted by Icemoon:
It is misleading unless you can prove otherwise.Or else you are a liar! :P
haha, try harder.
easy for someone to say it's misleading if you don't read it properly.
This part is found in the Torah. I'm sure you won't think the Torah is misleading too right.
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Originally posted by 24/7:
haha, try harder.
easy for someone to say it's misleading if you don't read it properly.
This part is found in the Torah. I'm sure you won't think the Torah is misleading too right.
I read it properly. Moses did run away from the snake.
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Originally posted by Icemoon:
Crossed lines.
You said the bible was misleading, and im pointing out to you that of course it (= bible) is if you dont' read it properly. In its context and entirety.
WIth regards to this verse, some religious sources even try to assuage the dilemma by saying its a fiery serpent, or a huge dragon. Just to justify Moses running away. For what? Twist the verse to fit your own schema?
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Originally posted by 24/7:
WIth regards to this verse, some religious sources even try to assuage the dilemma by saying its a fiery serpent, or a huge dragon. Just to justify Moses running away. For what? Twist the verse to fit your own schema?
then what do you suggest? -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
then what do you suggest?
Read the bible properly. -
Originally posted by BangHong:
haha, sulphur got use ;D
den will attract scorpions le -
Originally posted by 24/7:
Read the bible properly.I only have problem with Moses running away from the snake. The rest I don't care.
So did Moses run away from a snake?
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Originally posted by Icemoon:
only have problem with Moses running away from the snake. The rest I don't care.
So did Moses run away from a snake?
According to christian bible the answer is yes, Moses did fled or run away. According to the Tanakh, the answer is no, Moses did not run away.
3 The LORD said, "Throw it on the ground." Moses threw it on the ground and it became a snake, and he ran from it. NIV
3Then He said, "Throw it on the ground." So he threw it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from it. NASB
3And he said, Cast it on the ground. And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it. KJV
3 And he said, Cast in on the ground. And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it. ASV
3 He said, "Cast it on the ground and it became a snake; and Moses recoil from it. Tanakh JPS
The Tanakh translate the verse as recoil, i.e a reflex action. I think this is only a case of translation problem, the Jews and Christian translate the same verse differently changing its meaning.
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Originally posted by Creation1656:
The Tanakh translate the verse as recoil, i.e a reflex action. I think this is only a case of translation problem, the Jews and Christian translate the same verse differently changing its meaning.
darn .. is this why 24/7 told me to read bible properly?he already know is translation problem liao?
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Originally posted by Icemoon:
darn .. is this why 24/7 told me to read bible properly?
he already know is translation problem liao?
Should recommend 24/7 to use only the Tanakh?
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Originally posted by Creation1656:
Should recommend 24/7 to use only the Tanakh?
hah, really ah? On what basis?
Because some people revised the old Tanakh JPS translation and improvised it in light of new knowledge to deal with snakes? Cannot be right. How can the new be better than the old?
The old Tanakh JPS translation reads, "And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it."
If you use the new Tanakh translation, it also doesnt fit in with what the Pirke Eliezer said about this part - a 'fiery serpent', the JPS translators must be pretty darn brave to "recoil, i.e. reflex action" only.
Use only the Tanakh and miss out on the best part?
John 3:14, "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,"
I don't think so. =)
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erm, so did Moses run away from a snake?
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Originally posted by Icemoon:
erm, so did Moses run away from a snake?
ur driving a hard bargain, arent you. this is as far as i'll go with u about snakes. But i'll quote u something u said instead:When you read it, you will know.
doesn't this irritate you like the way some people give cryptic answers / questions to your questions? ;-)
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Originally Posted by 24/7:
hah, really ah? On what basis?
Because some people revised the old Tanakh JPS translation and improvised it in light of new knowledge to deal with snakes? Cannot be right. How can the new be better than the old?
The old Tanakh JPS translation reads, "And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it."
If you use the new Tanakh translation, it also doesnt fit in with what the Pirke Eliezer said about this part - a 'fiery serpent', the JPS translators must be pretty darn brave to "recoil, i.e. reflex action" only.
Use only the Tanakh and miss out on the best part?
John 3:14, "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,"
I don't think so. =)
How can the new be better than the old? Is the 1917 JPS translation better than the 1985 translation? A difference of 68 years. For the benefits of those who don't have the 1917 edition:
1 And Moses answered and said: 'But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice; for they will say: The LORD hath not appeared unto thee.' 2 And the LORD said unto him: 'What is that in thy hand?' And he said: 'A rod.' 3 And He said: 'Cast it on the ground.' And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it. 4 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Put forth thy hand, and take it by the tail--and he put forth his hand, and laid hold of it, and it became a rod in his hand-- 5 that they may believe that the LORD, the God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee.' Tanakh JPS 1917 edition.
I will try to explain why I chose the 1985 edition over the 1917 edition. We should first understand the teachings of Judaism. Ask any rabbi, what am I doing in this world, what's the purpose? I beleive christians also asked this question as in the book 40 days purpose driven life by Rick Warren.
According to rabbinic teachings, we are created with a free will, to improve ourself, to overcome our evil inclination. This world is full of temtations for us to overcome, when we overcome we improve. Unlike angels, we human can rise by improving ourself.
25 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 26 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was strained, as he wrestled with him. 27 And he said: 'Let me go, for the day breaketh.' And he said: 'I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.' 28 And he said unto him: 'What is thy name?' And he said: 'Jacob.' 29 And he said: 'Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel; for thou hast striven with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Tanakh JPS 1917.
The Torah teaches us that Jacob has struggled with God and with men and has prevailed. From the day we are born, our struggle begin. Hashem give us the Torah to help us in our struggle, to improve and to prevail. The Torah is the instruction book for life given by Hashem to all humankind.
With this concept in mind, I will try to answer your question, How can the new be better than the old. The fundamental scripture, written in Hebrew remain unchanged, only the translation has changed to reflect more accurately the intended meaning that is written in Hebrew. So, the new translation should be an improvement over the older translation, otherwise, why bother?
You will also notice in verse 4 that, Moses is near enough for him to hold the snake by its tail. If he had fled, would this be possible? About the Pirke Eliezer commentary of a 'fiery serpent' What actually is a 'fiery serpent', is it possible to hold a 'fiery serpent' by its tail? Nobody knows right?
You have quoted John 3:14. Care to explain how the 2 incidents are related?
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Originally posted by 24/7:
ur driving a hard bargain, arent you. this is as far as i'll go with u about snakes. But i'll quote u something u said instead:what? still cannot answer my question right.
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Originally posted by Creation1656:
You will also notice in verse 4 that, Moses is near enough for him to hold the snake by its tail. If he had fled, would this be possible?
Fled back lor. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
Fled back lor
Bible did not say that Moses fled back leh.
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Originally posted by Creation1656:
Bible did not say that Moses fled back leh.
This is a Christian problem. They want everything to be in black and white then can confirm. So if never say then better don't speculate.If you understand Jewish exegesis, they argue Torah is full of holes. You need Tradition to patch it up.