Christianity's central doctrine is the sacrificial death of Jesus. However there are numerous warnings in the Bible against the practice of Human sacrifices. Is this central doctrine of the christian church a direct violation of the commandment against human sacrifices?
Let us consider the following verses:
Lev 18:21 "'You shall not give any of your offspring to offer them to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God; I am the LORD." NASB
Lev 20:1-5 "1Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
2"You shall also say to the sons of Israel: 'Any man from the sons of Israel or from the aliens sojourning in Israel who gives any of his offspring to Molech, shall surely be put to death; the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
3'I will also set My face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given some of his offspring to Molech, so as to defile My sanctuary and to profane My holy name.
4'If the people of the land, however, should ever disregard that man when he gives any of his offspring to Molech, so as not to put him to death,
5then I Myself will set My face against that man and against his family, and I will cut off from among their people both him and all those who play the harlot after him, by playing the harlot after Molech." NASB
2 Kings 23:10 "He also defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter pass through the fire for Molech." NASB
Jer 32:35 ""They built the high places of Baal that are in the valley of Ben-hinnom to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I had not commanded them nor had it entered My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin." NASB
2 Kings 16:2-3 "Ahaz was twenty years old when he became king, and he reigned sixteen years in Jerusalem; and he did not do what was right in the sight of the LORD his God, as his father David had done.
3But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and even made his son pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the nations whom the LORD had driven out from before the sons of Israel." NASB
2 Kings 21:6 "He made his son pass through the fire, practiced witchcraft and used divination, and dealt with mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD provoking Him to anger." NASB
Jer 7:31 ""They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, and it did not come into My mind." NASB
Deut 12:31 " You shall not behave thus toward the LORD your God, for every abominable act which the LORD hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods." NASB
Deut 18:10 "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer," NASB
Human sacrifices is detestable to Hashem. From this point of view, is the central doctrine of the church defensible scripturally?
Originally posted by Creation1656:
Christianity's central doctrine is the sacrificial death of Jesus. However there are numerous warnings in the Bible against the practice of Human sacrifices. Is this central doctrine of the christian church a direct violation of the commandment against human sacrifices?
Let us consider the following verses:
Lev 18:21 "'You shall not give any of your offspring to offer them to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God; I am the LORD." NASB
Lev 20:1-5 "1Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
2"You shall also say to the sons of Israel: 'Any man from the sons of Israel or from the aliens sojourning in Israel who gives any of his offspring to Molech, shall surely be put to death; the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
3'I will also set My face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given some of his offspring to Molech, so as to defile My sanctuary and to profane My holy name.
4'If the people of the land, however, should ever disregard that man when he gives any of his offspring to Molech, so as not to put him to death,
5then I Myself will set My face against that man and against his family, and I will cut off from among their people both him and all those who play the harlot after him, by playing the harlot after Molech." NASB
2 Kings 23:10 "He also defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter pass through the fire for Molech." NASB
Jer 32:35 ""They built the high places of Baal that are in the valley of Ben-hinnom to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I had not commanded them nor had it entered My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin." NASB
2 Kings 16:2-3 "Ahaz was twenty years old when he became king, and he reigned sixteen years in Jerusalem; and he did not do what was right in the sight of the LORD his God, as his father David had done.
3But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and even made his son pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the nations whom the LORD had driven out from before the sons of Israel." NASB
2 Kings 21:6 "He made his son pass through the fire, practiced witchcraft and used divination, and dealt with mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD provoking Him to anger." NASB
Jer 7:31 ""They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, and it did not come into My mind." NASB
Deut 12:31 " You shall not behave thus toward the LORD your God, for every abominable act which the LORD hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods." NASB
Deut 18:10 "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer," NASB
Human sacrifices is detestable to Hashem. From this point of view, is the central doctrine of the church defensible scripturally?
the question u ask is similar to this one, rather comprehensive answer as well.
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/sacra.html
Answer is here:
Instead of asking question which is good but
Try to seek God with all your might and sincerity. Since God do really exist I do not see why one could not get the truth. Seek. Not that I've already found out much about God but I'm learning new things as I get older.
And no this is not sarcasm because I just wrote a bunch of lines and it was gone when I clicked the save reply button. LOL. And no way I'm gonna try to retrace and retype what I had in my mind minutes ago.
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:Instead of asking question which is good but
Try to seek God with all your might and sincerity. Since God do really exist I do not see why one could not get the truth. Seek. Not that I've already found out much about God but I'm learning new things as I get older.
And no this is not sarcasm because I just wrote a bunch of lines and it was gone when I clicked the save reply button. LOL. And no way I'm gonna try to retrace and retype what I had in my mind minutes ago.
Hmm.. sincerity is an attitude that we need to have in approaching GOD, but it doesnt necessarily get you to the truth. Have you heard of people who're 'sincerely wrong'.
Many religions will tell you that their way to seek GOD is the truth. So how?
Originally posted by Creation1656:
Christianity's central doctrine is the sacrificial death of Jesus. However there are numerous warnings in the Bible against the practice of Human sacrifices. Is this central doctrine of the christian church a direct violation of the commandment against human sacrifices?
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Originally posted by 24/7:Hmm.. sincerity is an attitude that we need to have in approaching GOD, but it doesnt necessarily get you to the truth. Have you heard of people who're 'sincerely wrong'.
Many religions will tell you that their way to seek GOD is the truth. So how?
Try to experience God firsthand is the best imo but as far as I know only a very few people have a sort of divine experience in their life be it in miracle or spiritual charism. And one may even experience God differently from the other. God is personal I guess.
I even once concluded that the knowledge of God is not for everybody to have in their lifetime. I don't really know why but I've seen many many people who think themselves as religious and having an active role in the church....do not actually...well just say they are short of expectation. They even speak in tounge but....In the end I force myself not to look at the people who follow God or claim and act to be religious but to focus on experiencing God myself. Otherwise my disappointment would never cease.
I have realised a few things that I think would help to experience God firsthand....
1. Be faithful. It means that when you follow Christ you must not put anything above Christ. Even under threats or grave risk or grave consequences. It also means that you may not consult or be depended upon other forces besides Christ like consulting medium or spiritist, shaman, paranormal and the like(Do not think your life would be steril well God has His own servants and ways that way over any paranormal but you don't come to them, they, complete strangers, come to you when needed instead). It also means that you must not give up in times of troubles or sufferings.
2. Realise that being a Christian means that God is not living in a far plane on the clouds but He is living in every living souls including your very own heart. So be mindful that God also share your feelings and day to day experience. He is a God that sees everything and that means every thing of every creature in this realm or the other. He knows the very end even before it all begins. Time and space is of no factor to God.
3. When you suffer for anything that you are not guilty of or suffering from whatever illness..endure the pain without giving up your faith. This including enduring rejection, persecution, defamation, etc. There's a reward for those pains. It may take time but there is a reward. Count on that. everything that happens to a believer is for the good of himself because God can turn anything to good. Faith is about not losing hope in God.
4. Be free of grave sins or do not do commit grave sins continually and when you do admit it to God than feel sorry for it. Actually this should be there at number one.
5. When God starts to show you that He is playing an active role in your life do not be fooled by other foolish people who would comment on the manisfestation of God in your life. Many would comment it as your own ability or some sort of sixth sense, many other would not believe it at all let them be, a few would say it's the act of the devil. Do not let these poisons enter your mind and heart. Know that the manisfestation may be supernatural but the source is from the God who shares your life. Do not be proud thinking the manisfestation as part of your ability too. That's a trap and a lie to make you feed your ego and pride. Be neutral to these manisfestation, rejoice over them for you have been shown the grace of God if you will but do not be addicted to them. God is always be with you no matter the manisfestation are there or no longer happening.
6. The purpose of a Christian life is to share in everlasting life. No greater glory or good could ever grace a living man than the blessing to share in everlasting life. It's the ultimate literally treasure that anyone could ever hope or inspired to receive. Be aware that satan only has one chance in this life, a few decades to impede or even to fail you or cause as many damage as possible to your life in order to diminish your faith and separate you from God. Nothing but the gift of everlasting life make satan more furious. So be sure of troubles coming to impede you even from fellow Christians, or your own family or even people in power. satan would let out all of his cards to play with you. Be faithful. Stay in the grace of God. And those people who truly serve God in this life shall share everlasting power. Yes power(authority) not like anything on this earth.
Cheers,
God is a God who is always be with His people. We are not alone, never was, never will be.
Of each evil powers that I've seen I've seen greater power of God for each of the evil. What surprises me of evil is its wickedness.
to put it simply.. it basically warns us against sarcrifice to false gods/ the evil ones..
Jesus was the one and only pure sacrifice.. In the old testiment they sacrificed different sorts of animals as a way to cleanse their sins, however these animals weren't totally pure, therefore Jesus had to come to be the one and only ultimate sacrifice to die once and for all so that we may be saved and not have to go through all of that.. And his form of sacrifice was more of a dying to save another sort of sacrifice of which there is nothing wrong.. It would be almost the same thing as you jumping infront of a bullet to save your friend..
That's well said Xaion.
Originally posted by Xaion:to put it simply.. it basically warns us against sarcrifice to false gods/ the evil ones..
Jesus was the one and only pure sacrifice.. In the old testiment they sacrificed different sorts of animals as a way to cleanse their sins, however these animals weren't totally pure, therefore Jesus had to come to be the one and only ultimate sacrifice to die once and for all so that we may be saved and not have to go through all of that.. And his form of sacrifice was more of a dying to save another sort of sacrifice of which there is nothing wrong.. It would be almost the same thing as you jumping infront of a bullet to save your friend..
Then why didn't Christ try to save Satan?
Hi Miracles,
I would agree to what you say entirely if not for the fact that i think ur ideas are very postmodern. Very subjective way of rationalizing your way out, as-long-as-it-feels-good kind of thing.
You remind me of certain people i've met who always tell the younger believers, "Heart knowledge is more impt than head knowledge" or like to emphasize on what Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me" and end up having simple faith, which fails to defend itself reasonably, like the way Peter tells us to do so in 1 Peter.
But pls remember that Jesus was the one who, when asked what was the greatest commandment, said that it was to love the LORD our GOD with all our heart, soul, MIND and strength. Simple faith wouldnt do alone (by the way, i think that verse talks about humility as an attitude we need to know GOD, not about being simple minded). One has to know WHY and WHAT he believes.
Now don't get me wrong, I love GOD and i thank GOD that He found me but having been a believer for a few years, I've had my fair share of ups and downs, and seen a lot of people who have tried to 'seek GOD with their might and sincerity', but couldnt find Him.
Others just end up believing in other faiths, or end up as atheists and agnostics.
Well, if that is not done... god believers will still be slaughtering lambs for their sins.
Hi Herzog,
Satan's beyond redemption. As in Hebrews of the NT, angels are created beings, but they're below humans (made in the image of GOD) in spiritual status and subject to our judgment at the end of days. Salvation brought by Jesus is only applicable to mortals.
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Then why didn't Christ try to save Satan?
God gave us all a free will, including his angels, since satan is a fallen angel, that was his own decision, and God won't interfere..
Originally posted by 24/7:...
Now don't get me wrong, I love GOD and i thank GOD that He found me but having been a believer for a few years, I've had my fair share of ups and downs, and seen a lot of people who have tried to 'seek GOD with their might and sincerity', but couldnt find Him.
Others just end up believing in other faiths, or end up as atheists and agnostics.
I didn't write that for feel good reason. I wrote that from my own experience. I too have my ups and downs but never give up on the faith because I have been lucky to have a revelation of Jesus when I was in my 7th grade. That vision stays with me until this day giving me comfort and strength when I need it. I've had my share of sufferings but by staying true to my faith I've been shown grace from time to time so that my faith didn't die but progress and my knowledge grows little by little.
I too have a daily prayer that haven't been granted for quite a long time.
But I know that Jesus would never abandon me because I've been shown grace from time to time.
I'm saying that if I never had had that revelation of Jesus I would have probably given up my faith in Christ. And if God hadn't shown me His grace I would most probably already lost my mind because of an event that nearly took my life and my sanity.
Had all that I had is a God from the text, I would have lost hope long time ago.
24/7 I hope you find the living God showing you His grace from time to time.
Just look at today's novels(among great many other things), like the Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code(though he's my favorite novel author). Had one didn't have something to hold on to...you would be easily swayed or fooled or broken.
Yes M&P, i recognize GOD's grace upon me all the time. If not for His grace, i wouldnt be where i am writing this, reading this.
Good that you had that revelation of Jesus, but imagine those who don't have someone to point it out to them. They might end up believing other things, dont u think?.
I dont merely advocate knowing GOD from the text only, but thru experience and as He reveals Himself to you. But if you don't have a solid anchor in the text, anybody can tell you they had a vision and claim it's Jesus, but how would you really know?
What i want to say is that we can't "sell" our faith based on our subjective experiences, but we need to base it on the Word of GOD, test everything against the Bible and discern.
I imagine if you replace the object of your seeking in your first sentence "Try to seek GOD with all your might and sincerity" with other words like Gaia or other deities, voila, you've a New Age perspective!
I hear stories of people who have visions of themselves going up to heaven, seeing stuff and reports being told by GOD to publish what they see in a book to 'bless' others. Hmm... how does one know what they see is the real stuff? Based on goodwill alone?
Dan Brown writes fiction to sell books, why would anyone take what he writes to be authoritative? But since you mentioned him, if a believer bases his faith on mere experience alone, how should he contend with the material inside the book? If the believer doesnt know much about doctrine, theology, and can't see beyond John 3:16, how does he keep his faith after reading such suggestive books?
Originally posted by caleb_chiang:Well, if that is not done... god believers will still be slaughtering lambs for their sins.
Do you see Jews today slaughtering lambs for their sins?
It is unfortunate that the emphasis on atonement in the NT leads many Christians to think that animal sacrifice is just that, for atonement.
This line of thought is not shared by Jews and Muslims.
Let me quote from MUIS the rationale of their annual animal sacrifice during Hari Raya Haji:
Korban has to be done on Eid-ul-Adha or during the 3 days after it. Its main purpose is to make oneself closer to Allah by giving the sacrificial meat to the poor and needy as well as to family, relatives and friends.
Originally posted by 24/7:I dont merely advocate knowing GOD from the text only, but thru experience and as He reveals Himself to you. But if you don't have a solid anchor in the text, anybody can tell you they had a vision and claim it's Jesus, but how would you really know?
What i want to say is that we can't "sell" our faith based on our subjective experiences, but we need to base it on the Word of GOD, test everything against the Bible and discern.
..............
I hear stories of people who have visions of themselves going up to heaven, seeing stuff and reports being told by GOD to publish what they see in a book to 'bless' others. Hmm... how does one know what they see is the real stuff? Based on goodwill alone?
...............
Yes my vision of Jesus was indeed personal. Yes I have seen people(their books that is) who claimed that they have had extraordinary visions and stuffs and the truth is I also doubt them. I even doubt people claiming given vision of Jesus after a new life in spirit seminar session. Was that her own imagination? I mean the only time I saw Jesus I couldn't even get past the overwhelming light which shone from His face. So how could this lady claimed that she saw Jesus in her vision as ordinary flesh and blood.......?? How extremely lucky she is to know the face of Jesus.
I also didn't imply that each of us should base our knowldege of God through personal experience ALONE but like I wrote that there are many many great deal of hoaxes out there including this new age movement or the emerging church as some would say that is imo contrary to what the bible teaches. My point is that aside from knowing God from the text(bible) it would help a lot to have a personal experience of God. But the problem is those experiences are given to whoever God chooses. So my advice is for Christians to 'stay true in faith' and sooner or later the grace of God would fall upon them as God is not a myth but a living God.
But again that is from my own experience that God has shown me grace from time to time. I have a grandmother too. She is a faithful Christians who prays every dawn for hours. She never ever had anything sort of divine revelation or miracle happens to her. I do not know why but I think it must be damn hard to persevere in times of troubles especially extreme ones when all you have is a God from the text. Most people like my own mother had a period of honeymoon with God then it began to fade for reasons that she chose.
Xaion to put it simply.. it basically warns us against sarcrifice to false gods/ the evil ones..
Jesus was the one and only pure sacrifice.. In the old testiment they sacrificed different sorts of animals as a way to cleanse their sins, however these animals weren't totally pure, therefore Jesus had to come to be the one and only ultimate sacrifice to die once and for all so that we may be saved and not have to go through all of that.. And his form of sacrifice was more of a dying to save another sort of sacrifice of which there is nothing wrong.. It would be almost the same thing as you jumping infront of a bullet to save your friend..
pretty much sums the topic up..however..to rephrase..christ is the only perfect ransom since adam was the perfect man who gave up perfection,it takes another perfect man to redeem it back.the animals are not unpure, just see them as interests paid back to God. and of course the bullet part is very good.
why the jews sacrifice is different from the moslems is that they give away the meat. but for Yodh Heh Wah Heh. the animal sacrifice is meant to die for humans' sins.He himself needs no meat or the smokey ordour they produce. for it disgusts him if offerings are many but the human heart is ugly.
i dont really agree that angels are below humans....feels kinda weird..those spirit creatures are in every way more powerful than humans..thats why the demons wreck so much havoc. and they certainly do not fall to humans to judge them. for only God can judge anything since he is the creator.