My "Christian" Experience
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
This is hogwash. If there's really such a church, the ISD will be the first to clampdown on such church activities.
lol. i was from there too. nearly 8 years ago. (dang, i feel old....), so it's not hogwash. haha don't be so quick to pass a judgement =)
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
well said dumb2....
hee hee
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Originally posted by ChiBet:
I guess it makes sense for me to look into other churches in this case. thanks for all your feedbacks
remember that the church is NOT God. It is only a representation of God.... many churches are good representatives, but others are not so good.regardless of how "righteous" some may sound, if it goes against the core teachings of the Bible, then one need to be careful.
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lol.. yeah definitely. once a priest told me that God will forgive satan if only satan humbled himself and admit his mistakes, and that statement was wrong biblically. another priest told the church during a homely in a joking manner that it was alright to have murderous thoughts against your boss, so long as you don't bring a dagger to your work place and attempt to act the thoughts out.
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I'D RATHER BE IN HELL WHERE THE PARTY'S AT.
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Originally posted by newcomer:
I’D RATHER BE IN HELL WHERE THE PARTY’S AT.
lol, it's only true if you say it on your deathbed. otherwise it's just rubbish. empty bravado, sounds tough, but no substance.
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
remember that the church is NOT God. It is only a representation of God.... many churches are good representatives, but others are not so good.regardless of how "righteous" some may sound, if it goes against the core teachings of the Bible, then one need to be careful.
The church is not even a representation of God. A church is a mere congregation of believers in Christ. God doesn't need a representative even on earth.
It's even irrelevent whether the Church site is holy. The only thing that can be holy is a man's heart for there dwell the Son of man. The heart of men(believers) is the temple of the Lord. God doesn't even dwell in the church though Jesus comes in the blessed host of the eucharist but those would be received by believers in mass/services.
I remember a Catholic pastor who wrote it's ironic to see many Catholics to be like chickens starving in a grain storage.
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Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
The church is not even a representation of God. A church is a mere congregation of believers in Christ. God doesn't need a representative even on earth.
It's even irrelevent whether the Church site is holy. The only thing that can be holy is a man's heart for there dwell the Son of man. The heart of men(believers) is the temple of the Lord. God doesn't even dwell in the church though Jesus comes in the blessed host of the eucharist but those would be received by believers in mass/services.
I remember a Catholic pastor who wrote it's ironic to see many Catholics to be like chickens starving in a grain storage.
hmm i agree that God is in us. but i believe God is in the midst of us when we congregate as a church. When two or more are gathered in His name, there He is also.
i think chin eng isn't exactly wrong, just phrased it differently. the church is a representation of God on this earth. we are all representing God's goodness in this world. we're his salt and light, we're his prophet, his saint, his advocate.
non believers can't see God, but they can see God's goodness in us. i think that's what chin eng means.
that TS shouldn't be mistaken that he has to do everything his church tells him so, because the church isn't God.it's at worst, just a building, and at best, a congregation of His people. But it isn't God and shouldn't be treated or feared as so.
and the reason why christians are living like starved chickens in a grainery. is simply because they try to rely on their good works to be holy. it's impossible, so when they slip up, they feel condemned and unloved, and they try to stay away from God because they feel ashamed and condemned. then they dry up.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
hmm i agree that God is in us. but i believe God is in the midst of us when we congregate as a church. When two or more are gathered in His name, there He is also.
i think chin eng isn't exactly wrong, just phrased it differently. the church is a representation of God on this earth. we are all representing God's goodness in this world. we're his salt and light, we're his prophet, his saint, his advocate.
non believers can't see God, but they can see God's goodness in us. i think that's what chin eng means.
that TS shouldn't be mistaken that he has to do everything his church tells him so, because the church isn't God.it's at worst, just a building, and at best, a congregation of His people. But it isn't God and shouldn't be treated or feared as so.
and the reason why christians are living like starved chickens in a grainery. is simply because they try to rely on their good works to be holy. it's impossible, so when they slip up, they feel condemned and unloved, and they try to stay away from God because they feel ashamed and condemned. then they dry up.
Thanks for your concern but I do not do everything I am told, in fact, I kind of have a stubborn streak and question everything I am told.
I believe that the church is just a way to follow GOD's teachings of fellowship and is no way a representation of GOD at all as GOD is with us always even when we are not at church.
I enjoy going to church. It is just that the actions of most of the members of this particular church is freaky thats all.
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Originally posted by ChiBet:
Thanks for your concern but I do not do everything I am told, in fact, I kind of have a stubborn streak and question everything I am told.
I believe that the church is just a way to follow GOD's teachings of fellowship and is no way a representation of GOD at all as GOD is with us always even when we are not at church.
I enjoy going to church. It is just that the actions of most of the members of this particular church is freaky thats all.
lol, u remind me of me. =x
well.. we've all said all we have to say. good luck finding a new church. i think u can approach chin eng for recommendation of where to start looking. u can also look at my church if u like.
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That is totally Hope of God, based in Orchard there @ Cuppage Plaza. They have been preaching this extreme form of nonsense since 1990s.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
TS sounds like he's just joined the Taleban .....
fatum, u put it so well, love what you said.
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Originally posted by Artemis`Entreri:
That is totally Hope of God, based in Orchard there @ Cuppage Plaza. They have been preaching this extreme form of nonsense since 1990s.
lol. been there, seen it all, done it all. all the way from salvation army bishan.
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Originally posted by ChiBet:
I really am not trying to defame any church else I would have put in the name of the church.
I put the word "Christian" in quotes is because my gut feeling tells me that what I had experience is somehow not really correct.
I am born to a buddhist/taoist family and I chose to become a Christian because I do not believe that praying to a dead human would work as at the end of the day, they were still human.
I believe that somewhere, there must be a being more powerful than mere humans so I decided to believe in GOD. Getting into heaven is good too.
To clarify further
1 - telling me to only make friends with other christians of my church and to stay away from my non christian friends
trying to get my non christians friends to come to the church is ok but if my non christian friend is non-responsive then the church people encourage me to stay away from these non-responsive people. their reason being i might be influence by them
I am constantly asked to ditch my non christian girlfriend and encourage to find a girl from the church
What i find a bit extreme is that the church encourage me to stay away from my christian friends from other churches - ther reason being different churches concentrate on different parts of the bible - methodist/evangelistic
2 - all conversations with this bunch of people involves chrisianity and nothing else. I mean its normal to talk about christianity within a christian group but to have months and months of conversations only about christianity/church activity is not normal. Some were my coursemates and they never spoke to me about anything else except christianity/church matters - even when we were at school
Seriously, 90% of all conversations with this bunch of people involve christianity. No matter what topics i try to engage them in conversation (movies, recent events, politics), the conversations always end up involving Jesus and God.
example:
me: hey you heard about the increase in GST?
christian friend: yes, everything is becoming more and more expensive. We need to put our lives in GOD's hands and in his infinite wisdom and power, he will guide us through this difficult time.
me : ??? ............ yeah ........GOD is great isnt he. Hey anyone heard that new madonna/britney spears song
christian friend: Why do you listen to world songs? Hillsongs came out with a new album recently. You should go buy it and listen to that instead
me: ??? ...........yeah ok. I like hillsongs too.
christian friend: now let us pray together to ask Jesus to guide us in everthing we do in our lives.
4 - they keep asking me to do 'surveys' and collect alot of my personal data then one day they told me that GOD had told them his plan for me and proceed to tell me of their/"HIS" plan for my life. they actually plan out my whole life???
I assure that this is totally true. they not only survey church members, they also survey visitors to the church and even people on the streets. Evangelistic events are conducted like MLM recruitment drives.
It is obvious that you are in the wrong company....Leave as soon as you can before you loose faith in God.
Go look around - there are many Churches, many denominations to choose from....
If you are serious, go to 1 that will help you in your formation as Christians, that will teach you what Jesus is teaching us to do, what the bible says. And only talk about baptisim if you are really comfortable with the faith.
If the church start to ask you for money to support their business / investment venture, it is also a sign you should "siam" quickly.... They normally talk with lots of amen, alleluia and every thing they says is followed by a bible verse (and does not matter if quoted correctly).....
Best way to go, find a friend or relative who is a Christian (for some time) and whose behaviour and attitude you think is what you wanted to be.
Good Luck!
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
i think chin eng isn't exactly wrong, just phrased it differently. the church is a representation of God on this earth. we are all representing God's goodness in this world. we're his salt and light, we're his prophet, his saint, his advocate.
thank you.
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Originally posted by ChiBet:
Thanks for your concern but I do not do everything I am told, in fact, I kind of have a stubborn streak and question everything I am told.
I believe that the church is just a way to follow GOD's teachings of fellowship and is no way a representation of GOD at all as GOD is with us always even when we are not at church.
I enjoy going to church. It is just that the actions of most of the members of this particular church is freaky thats all.
....which in itself, is a matter of concern....
....as some of us had suggested... shop around.
....a Christian, and to a larger extend the congregation (ie, the church) is called to be the light of the world and salt of the earth.... hence, we are called to be visible representation of God to the world of unbelief. If the candle loses it's light and the salt it's taste, then the representation no longer exists.
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Originally posted by ChiBet:
I really am not trying to defame any church else I would have put in the name of the church.
I put the word "Christian" in quotes is because my gut feeling tells me that what I had experience is somehow not really correct.
I am born to a buddhist/taoist family and I chose to become a Christian because I do not believe that praying to a dead human would work as at the end of the day, they were still human.
I believe that somewhere, there must be a being more powerful than mere humans so I decided to believe in GOD. Getting into heaven is good too.
To clarify further
1 - telling me to only make friends with other christians of my church and to stay away from my non christian friends
trying to get my non christians friends to come to the church is ok but if my non christian friend is non-responsive then the church people encourage me to stay away from these non-responsive people. their reason being i might be influence by them
I am constantly asked to ditch my non christian girlfriend and encourage to find a girl from the church
What i find a bit extreme is that the church encourage me to stay away from my christian friends from other churches - ther reason being different churches concentrate on different parts of the bible - methodist/evangelistic
2 - all conversations with this bunch of people involves chrisianity and nothing else. I mean its normal to talk about christianity within a christian group but to have months and months of conversations only about christianity/church activity is not normal. Some were my coursemates and they never spoke to me about anything else except christianity/church matters - even when we were at school
Seriously, 90% of all conversations with this bunch of people involve christianity. No matter what topics i try to engage them in conversation (movies, recent events, politics), the conversations always end up involving Jesus and God.
example:
me: hey you heard about the increase in GST?
christian friend: yes, everything is becoming more and more expensive. We need to put our lives in GOD's hands and in his infinite wisdom and power, he will guide us through this difficult time.
me : ??? ............ yeah ........GOD is great isnt he. Hey anyone heard that new madonna/britney spears song
christian friend: Why do you listen to world songs? Hillsongs came out with a new album recently. You should go buy it and listen to that instead
me: ??? ...........yeah ok. I like hillsongs too.
christian friend: now let us pray together to ask Jesus to guide us in everthing we do in our lives.
4 - they keep asking me to do 'surveys' and collect alot of my personal data then one day they told me that GOD had told them his plan for me and proceed to tell me of their/"HIS" plan for my life. they actually plan out my whole life???
I assure that this is totally true. they not only survey church members, they also survey visitors to the church and even people on the streets. Evangelistic events are conducted like MLM recruitment drives.
i'm starting to remember the annoying horror stories of my time in hope of god.
lol.
okok, u see this ah:
I am constantly asked to ditch my non christian girlfriend and encourage to find a girl from the church
the trap here is, that all the girls are pretty brainwashed to think that bgr is a "sin", and what i've seen last time, was that there was this case, where a couple came to this church and received salvation, the cg pressured them into breaking up, the girls would talk to the girl behind the guy's back, and the guys would talk to the guy, and try to convince them to break up. i remembered this quite clearly, cuz i was totally disgusted with the underhand method they do things.
trying to get my non christians friends to come to the church is ok but if my non christian friend is non-responsive then the church people encourage me to stay away from these non-responsive people. their reason being i might be influence by them
this was kinda what happened to me over time. slowly my social circle got smaller because they had so much activities in the past, i forgot exactly what activities, but i remember, almost everyday also got something. as my dad said (before he became a christian): "i left the house early in the morning, and only get back after midnight"
lol, i bet they used the "do not be yoked with unbelievers" quote on you right? when they ask you to stay away from your non-responsive friends.
tt's rubbish la. like that you're not being a true friend. can you imagine if Jesus gave up on any one of us? He accepted and love us for who we are, whether we choose Him or not.
it's not very loving if you ditch your friends if they're resisting the gospel. how can you convince anyone that God is a good God who won't give up even the hardest nut on this planet, if you, His priest, cut ties and burn bridges the moment they reject you?
What i find a bit extreme is that the church encourage me to stay away from my christian friends from other churches - ther reason being different churches concentrate on different parts of the bible - methodist/evangelistic
and when my friend invited me to take a look at chc, cuz got guest speaker, i remember my sheperd at that time forbided me to visit, on the grounds that i may learn the wrong things etc. and there were several members of the cg who kept emphasising that hope of god was the best church there is in singapore. being stubborn, i went anyway, and was chastised i think. then i remember my cgl said that i could only go visit if my sheperd comes along, so if there was any wrong teaching, he will let me know. lol again, the trap is, my sheperd won't want to go. alot of traps la, it's usually a lose-lose situation.
Seriously, 90% of all conversations with this bunch of people involve christianity. No matter what topics i try to engage them in conversation (movies, recent events, politics), the conversations always end up involving Jesus and God.
lol, yeah, i experienced that too. okok, here's another thing, i don't know if you experienced. this is what happens usually, in a big group, or medium group, maybe the cgl will crack a lame joke, then everyone will laugh damn fake. like "hahaha" but it's just very fake and forced, all for show only. did you notice this? there's this lack of warmness in the laughter, it's so mechanical.
and about their desperate attempts to sound like a holy christian by adding the words "God" and "Jesus" into every topic, i think it's just a habit that they pick up from the older members of the church. but usually it's very no link and out of the topic. ultimately, it's kinda lame.
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oh, here's another fun fact. you'll notice that all the unit leaders or senior members are most likely going to die single. and those who actually got into a relationship, all left the church to do so.
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i think the best is to read and understand. then you seek out the different schools of thought, in this case the varying churches, to see which one fits you best.
i have frens from chc and i think they are a wonderful bunch. they are dedicated yes but they dont talk abt religious matters all the time.
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Originally posted by cApitaland:
i think the best is to read and understand. then you seek out the different schools of thought, in this case the varying churches, to see which one fits you best.
i have frens from chc and i think they are a wonderful bunch. they are dedicated yes but they dont talk abt religious matters all the time.
lol.. this.. church, hope of god, is unique. shrugs
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well, do you realize that only religion have these extremies problems? You dun see atheist really trying to restrict your life.
Atheists are the most sensible and peaceful and non eccentric bunch of people.
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have you heard of any atheists who complained that atheist people are pressurising them and making their life become very strange.
IN atheism, instead of being restriction, you will receive freedom, creativity and responsibility to be part of the world. Just do good in general. The only laws that atheists will ask you to follow strictly is government law and order.. and remembering to pay your taxes. haha
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Originally posted by ChiBet:
I converted to Christianity about 3 years ago but my friends in the church were freaking me out by
1 - telling me to only make friends with other christians of my church and to stay away from my non christian friends
2 - all conversations with this bunch of people involves chrisianity and nothing else. I mean its normal to talk about christianity within a christian group but to have months and months of conversations only about christianity/church activity is not normal. Some were my coursemates and they never spoke to me about anything else except christianity/church matters - even when we were at school
3 - once they found out I listen to the radio, their response was why I listen to worldly songs??? they expect christians to only listen to christians songs???
4 - they keep asking me to do 'surveys' and collect alot of my personal data then one day they told me that GOD had told them his plan for me and proceed to tell me of their/"HIS" plan for my life. they actually plan out my whole life???
Is this normal or had I join a cult?
My church is somewhere along Orchard Road. Does anyone have any similar experience?
1 - absolute bullshit. fearing the non-believers would tarnish their minds. If their faith is THAT strong, no non-believer could weaken their faith. but, i've seen it happen. these ppl 'befriend' those who go to church while ppl like me who won't "sink into the deep water" will be ignored.2. yes, had heard it too. So annoying when these people thank God for everything from sunny days to a good dinner at home. e.g. "Thank God for the dinner", but then, how about thanking the person who cooked dinner??? Always praising some unseen entity when the person doing the (good) deed goes unnoticed and unappreciated.
By the way, TS, if they are truly ur friends, certainly they could speak more intelligible stuff and of various topics with you rather than those God mumbo-jumbo so u "won't forget" ur faith. Sometimes, these "friends" only speak to u come church-related activities, and speak only about God and his "wonderfulness". Of course with their closer pals they speak more intelligible stuff.
3 - how about blatantly listening christian songs in front of a non-believer?
4 - Who plans out? The head priest or something? Tell him to f*** off. Maybe GOD has plans for you but that's for you to discover. In plain Singlish, don't expect GOD telling you what to do or rather, there's NO GOD telling you what to do. Up to you to perceive.
5 - In conclusion, this is total CRAP. Sooner or later, you'll part with ur money and sanity. You'll b stuck there, unable to leave, fearing the 'consequences' brainwashed into you.
LEAVE NOW BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.
You r the master of your own fate. Don't let others tell you, even in the name of God.
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Originally posted by january:
have you heard of any atheists who complained that atheist people are pressurising them and making their life become very strange.
IN atheism, instead of being restriction, you will receive freedom, creativity and responsibility to be part of the world. Just do good in general. The only laws that atheists will ask you to follow strictly is government law and order.. and remembering to pay your taxes. haha
I so agree. No longer is religion about doing good. It's like joining a club; with lots of promised goodies and to feel good about being 'in'. All about showing others how great their crap is and make themselves feel superior (to the point of discrimination)
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ok, i'm new here, i've been a christian since 2003 and here are my 2 cents worth....haha
I converted to Christianity about 3 years ago but my friends in the church were freaking me out by
1 - telling me to only make friends with other christians of my church and to stay away from my non christian friends
Ok firstly in Matt 28:18-20, here it talks about Jesus giving the disciples the Great Comission, which is simply, to win the loss.
So if you only mix around with christians all day long, how are you suppose to share your faith to the none christians? Isn't that selfish and irresponsible? and isn't that disobeying the great commission? I have many non-christain friends and some of them are even my best buddies, is i were to only mix ard with christian wont that mean i will not have a chance to do my part in getting them saved? My ex-CGL used to think like that, that once we are save we should cut off contact with the non-christians, so as to not get influence, i find that this is wrong, but instead we should use our faith to influence them instead, and bring them to christ. I remember giving the cgl a piece of my mind and i left the cg soon after.
To ostracize ppl just because they are non-christians is simply wrong! and it goes against one of the 10 commandments. My advice is since u are already in a relationship, stay with it and if it;s possible bring your girl to christ, i'm sure God wouldn't want to see you end a relationship and cause suffering to both parties so just you can get a girlfriend in church.
And if your church members are intent on breaking you up, confront them and ask them what right do they have to break up a relationship based on the reason that your gf is a non-christian? and if they insist it's for your own good, ask them how can it be for your own good when they are trying to cause heartbreak and suffering.
2 - all conversations with this bunch of people involves chrisianity and nothing else. I mean its normal to talk about christianity within a christian group but to have months and months of conversations only about christianity/church activity is not normal. Some were my coursemates and they never spoke to me about anything else except christianity/church matters - even when we were at school
It seems to me that these ppl are trying desperately to separated themselves from the secular world. If the secular world is so bad, then once you are saved and baptise, God should kill you on the spot so that you can spend the rest of eternity in the bliss of Heaven, but instead He gives us the Great comission, the holy spirit and the bible so that we as christians can be equiped to share the love of God to the rest of the people. It's not wrong to share about your walk with God with other fellow christian, sometimes it will even strenghten your faith, but if you do that and overdo it, sooner or later you will have a sense of inadequacy when talking to non-christians and lose touch with current affairs.
3 - once they found out I listen to the radio, their response was why I listen to worldly songs??? they expect christians to only listen to christians songs???
Larry Norman, the father of Christian rock music who influence most of the christian music you hear today, once said, " Why should the Devil have all the good music?".
There is no wrong in listening to secular or 'worldy' music.
All music is from God, create by God as a form of praise and worship, and though some genres like Trash Metal do tend to perverse this, the fact remains that music is from God. Do you know that the songs from Hillsong or CCC uses scores and progressions similar to the ones used in today's rock and pop music? So to say music is 'worldly' is like saying contemporary christian music is 'worldly' as well. But some may argue that it's the lyrics of the song that's 'worldy', but....
Just look at Psalms which is essentially a collection of hit songs from david's time, mostly about anger, fustration and regret some chapters with hardly then a mention of God. Isn't it similar to the popular songs we have today?
And what about The Songs of Solomon? A collection of songs all about the obsession with love and and the sensual, Do you know that back in those days it's considered X-rated stuff? Isn't it the same as most of our love ballards today?
And lastly the book of Lamentaions which is basically about the heartfelt expression of grief and sorrow. Just look and some of our best loved classics, eg. Eric Clapton's Tears in Heaven.
If secular music is worldy then why did God allow this 3 books in the bible? With Psalms being one the the largest books spanning 150 chapters. If your church members feel that secular music is 'worldy' they might as well just rip out these 3 books from the bible. I feel stongly about this cus i'm a musician in church and my favourite kinda music is rock and roll, and if someone come up to me and says the music i listen to is 'worldly', i will have this insatiable urge to stuff my Ibanez electric down his throat...lol
4 - they keep asking me to do 'surveys' and collect alot of my personal data then one day they told me that GOD had told them his plan for me and proceed to tell me of their/"HIS" plan for my life. they actually plan out my whole life???
I believe that God's has a plan for everyone and that God's will use ou in His own special way, you can learn about God's plan for your life through consistant prayer, be dependent and sensitivity to the holy spirit for guidance and through trials and tribulations.
Very rarely does God's tell you his plan is the form of a prophetic word through someone else, and even if he does he will always use prophets, apostles, pastors, ppl like Billy Graham or Benny Hinn and even your local church pastor. So unless your church members are one or all of the above i seriously doubt their 'plan' is from God.
It seems to me that their 'God's Plan' is generated through the collection of personal data, personality test and surveys. Have you ever heard of the DISC test? it's use to determine a persons personality and aptitude. I know of some churches who ask their members the take this test and then recommend the ministy they feel they should be serving in, this to me is no different from genetic or racial profiling. God created you and has a unique plan for you and for you alone, be very weary of this 'God's plan' your members are pushing to you, it might distracted and prevent you from realising God's ture plan for your life.
Cheers and God bless=)