Icemoon:
Rambam = Maimonides? He lived in the 1100s, between then and Noah's time, why would the Oral Tradition be so silent on the topic?
Understand it's not Judaistic practice to proselytize, but would it be fair for an atheist to say that G-D allowed the children of Adam and Eve to have incest with each other, and again with Noah's children, while forbidding it after that?
If Satan's not as evil as Christians think, what is the Judaistic idea of Satan then?
wah lao, idiots who think that wat the book written is all correct. I dunno should pity you or wat.
*Sigh
Originally posted by 24/7:Icemoon:
Rambam = Maimonides? He lived in the 1100s, between then and Noah's time, why would the Oral Tradition be so silent on the topic?
The Oral Tradition is not silent about whether the prohibition against sexual immorality was given before Moses.
The problem, as I see it, is what constitute sexual immorality.
Originally posted by 24/7:Understand it's not Judaistic practice to proselytize, but would it be fair for an atheist to say that G-D allowed the children of Adam and Eve to have incest with each other, and again with Noah's children, while forbidding it after that?
Truth be told, I have yet to hear from a trustworthy rabbi about the Jewish stand on the issue.
The problem is how they reconcile the act with the commandment against sexual immorality, given since Adam. If you are Christian, you have no such problem 'cos the prohibition was only given at Sinai. So a Christian answer to your question will be ......... yes it is fair for the atheist to say that?
I found a creative way around the problem. Looking at the prohibitions for incest, it is possible to avoid committing the "sin" by marrying your cousins. Or, for the case of Cain, marry somebody who is not a descendant of Adam.
After some poking around, I found out some of the more creative explanation given by Tradition. For instance, somebody said that Cain and Abel each has a twin sister, meant for the other brother, to minimize the effect of incest.
As with many things found in Tradition, read it with a pinch of salt, for not everything found inside is authoritative, i.e. aggadah.
Originally posted by 24/7:If Satan's not as evil as Christians think, what is the Judaistic idea of Satan then?
A big topic by itself, but suffice to say ..
Satan is a servant of God, the divine prosecutor during Judgement, and essential for your growth in this world. ^^
Originally posted by Icemoon:Truth be told, I have yet to hear from a trustworthy rabbi about the Jewish stand on the issue.
The problem is how they reconcile the act with the commandment against sexual immorality, given since Adam. If you are Christian, you have no such problem 'cos the prohibition was only given at Sinai. So a Christian answer to your question will be ......... yes it is fair for the atheist to say that?
I found a creative way around the problem. Looking at the prohibitions for incest, it is possible to avoid committing the "sin" by marrying your cousins. Or, for the case of Cain, marry somebody who is not a descendant of Adam.
After some poking around, I found out some of the more creative explanation given by Tradition. For instance, somebody said that Cain and Abel each has a twin sister, meant for the other brother, to minimize the effect of incest.
As with many things found in Tradition, read it with a pinch of salt, for not everything found inside is authoritative, i.e. aggadah.
This interface is kooky, sometimes it works, some times it doesnt
Understand cousins are left out of the equation, but with A&E, one of their children have to marry each other to produce cousins for Cain to marry in the first place. Even if Cain and Abel had twins, they still remain siblings. Some sources believe that A&E werent the only people around. But my POV, is that they were.
When GOD created A&E, he called it 'very good'. Sin entered the picture and the effects of His curse were soon felt. Generations of genetic degradation meant that by the time Sinai came about, people could no longer have close marriages. Also there were more than enough people to around anyway. Commandments were given to distinguish Israel from the pagan nations around and to put a complete stop.
There was some law going around before Sinai, probably laid down by GOD thru the Jewish Tradition or some other way, such that people could still marry within the family out of desperate circumstances.
To the atheist, yes, GOD allowed incest but for the abovementioned reasons. Does GOD practise double standards? Nope, not if you understand that this was in His plans. Will it happen again such that there won't be anybody around for one to multiply with and he has to engage in incest? For everybody's sake, when that time comes, that shouldnt be the foremost question on his mind, but why is he left behind?
ok, i'm thinking in a simpler term. we usually tell kids, not to play with power outlets, and we set it as a rule, telling them "it's wrong to play with power outlets"
the reason is, we know it isn't safe, if not handled properly. there could be accidents and death. but it's pointless telling them how electricity works and how they will die from it. they don't even know the concept of death.
but as they grow older, they know how to protect themselves, and are now allowed to plug in power etc.
so is playing with power outlet "wrong" as in simple black or white terms? sometimes we cannot see things that way, there's a reason why at that time, incest was allowed, and then later on, it isn't.
it's not so much "wrong" wrong, but actually it's just bad for us in the long run.
in the beginning, God created Adam and Eve and told them to re produce,enjoy live and fill the earth with humans. NOTE that God created Adam and eve only..not adam and steve nor was there any john and mary,peter and jane...whatsoever.
the whole idea was through incest. in Noah's time, again incest was the only way to go.in fact there was at least one more a/c of incest in the bible about 2 dauhters and the father in a cave or something.
but why incest is punishable by death in the mosiac law? go back to adam n eve time and we noticed they are no longer perfect.every person is born sinful.the same reason why some babies are born with aids. and with this effect, the degradation worsen. God knew that will adversely affect human kind and thus the law for no incest and death to incest lovers.
hope this answer your qn.
Bible never said whether can marry other tribes or not hor?? What's not written is not wrong, right? Or is it right to say that what was right is wrong? umm...
Bible never said whether can marry other tribes or not hor?? What's not written is not wrong, right? Or is it right to say that what was right is wrong? umm...
in the OT days,intermarriges with other tribes were not that encouraged. for fear of falling to their paganistic and immoral ways.eg canaan.
whats not written dont mean its not wrong.its simply not written.can see your point but dun utd why i bother to respond to this.
i feel you....