Originally posted by mhcampboy:How can God create other humans? The how do the other created humans inherit the sins of adam and eve if God created them from scratch?
you are correct about humans inheriting Adam and Eve's sins so I guess I should have said human-like beings cos I distinctly remember reading that Lillith is one of Adam's wives although she may not be entirely human.
Originally posted by ChiBet:
you are correct about humans inheriting Adam and Eve's sins so I guess I should have said human-like beings cos I distinctly remember reading that Lillith is one of Adam's wives although she may not be entirely human.
You need to be careful with the "Lilith" story. It is not orthodox Christian doctrine.
the law regarding incest was only passed down by God during moses time. and that was some time before adam and eve.
incest was forbidden by God at that point of time, because the gene pool was starting to break down. that's why people who practice incest, their kids are usually, for the lack of a better word, fucked up. deformities, low IQ, watever.
and it's the same reason why if you have kids with someone from another race, as far from the original gene pool as possible. the kids are really good looking etc.
it's true that adam and eve and their kids commited incest, but because at that time, the gene information was full, there was no chance of "bad information" passing down the generation.
until moses time.
Originally posted by ChiBet:
you are correct about humans inheriting Adam and Eve's sins so I guess I should have said human-like beings cos I distinctly remember reading that Lillith is one of Adam's wives although she may not be entirely human.
tts not from the bible. =)
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:tts not from the bible. =)
Ok, remembered where I read about Lilith
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith#Adam_and_Lilith
Lilith was mentioned in the Bible
Originally posted by ChiBet:
Ok, remembered where I read about Lilithhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith#Adam_and_Lilith
Lilith was mentioned in the Bible
i read before too. no, lilith isn't mentioned in the bible. wiki says that the bible hints of lilith's existance, but isn't explicitly mentioned. anyway, as what chin eng said, it isn't accepted in mainstream christianity.
besides it's illogical.
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:i read before too. no, lilith isn't mentioned in the bible. wiki says that the bible hints of lilith's existance, but isn't explicitly mentioned. anyway, as what chin eng said, it isn't accepted in mainstream christianity.
besides it's illogical.
I guess it would depend on which version you are reading
New American Bible - Book of Isaiah 34:14
Wildcats shall meet with desert beasts, satyrs shall call to one another; There shall the lilith repose, and find for herself a place to rest.
but its true the bible never mention her relationship (if any) with Adam
other versions say night bird, or screech owl.
could be a name given to some sort of bird.
shrugs. but point is, there was only adam and eve in the begining.
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:other versions say night bird, or screech owl.
could be a name given to some sort of bird.
shrugs. but point is, there was only adam and eve in the begining.
Point taken.
thats another thing with the bible, there are too many versions due to translations. How I wish I can read the original Hebrew version
FYI - the Hebrew version shows
pagšu á¹£iyyim et-ʾiyyim w-saÊ¿ir Ê¿al-rÄ“Ê¿hu yiqra ʾakšam hirgiÊ¿ah lilit u-maṣʾah lah manoḫ
Originally posted by ChiBet:
I guess it would depend on which version you are readingNew American Bible - Book of Isaiah 34:14
Wildcats shall meet with desert beasts, satyrs shall call to one another; There shall the lilith repose, and find for herself a place to rest.
but its true the bible never mention her relationship (if any) with Adam
nowhere in this verse in Isaiah states that "lilith" is a person. in the context of this verse, lilith seems to be a dark creature.
you should a little more careful about such frivilous linkings.
Originally posted by Chin Eng:nowhere in this verse in Isaiah states that "lilith" is a person. in the context of this verse, lilith seems to be a dark creature.
you should a little more careful about such frivilous linkings.
I know that there differences in the interpretation of the bible within the christian community itself and between the users of different translations
For the sake of discussion, I was just posting the information that was available to me.
Old Testament - Book of Isaiah 34:14
In Hebrew: pagšu á¹£iyyim et-ʾiyyim w-saÊ¿ir Ê¿al-rÄ“Ê¿hu yiqra ʾakšam hirgiÊ¿ah lilit u-maṣʾah lah manoḫ
morpho-syntactic analysis: "yelpers meet howlers; hairy-ones cry to fellow. liyliyth reposes, acquires resting-place."
So this means in the original context, a creature called lilit (pronounce lilith) is mentioned. Depending on which version of the bible you are reading now, it maybe translated as
Originally posted by Jamie Zawinski:in fact, there was a 2nd period of incest. the great flood wiped out all human on earth except noah and his family. the members definitely committed incest in order to procreate.
There were other animals so might be strictly incest....bestiality is the word...that's why some still look and behave like monkeys!
Originally posted by ChiBet:
I know that there differences in the interpretation of the bible within the christian community itself and between the users of different translationsFor the sake of discussion, I was just posting the information that was available to me.
Old Testament - Book of Isaiah 34:14
In Hebrew: pagšu á¹£iyyim et-ʾiyyim w-saÊ¿ir Ê¿al-rÄ“Ê¿hu yiqra ʾakšam hirgiÊ¿ah lilit u-maṣʾah lah manoḫ
morpho-syntactic analysis: "yelpers meet howlers; hairy-ones cry to fellow. liyliyth reposes, acquires resting-place."
So this means in the original context, a creature called lilit (pronounce lilith) is mentioned. Depending on which version of the bible you are reading now, it maybe translated as
- night-owl (Young, 1898)
- night monster (ASV, 1901; NASB, 1995)
- vampires (Moffatt Translation, 1922)
- night hag (RSV, 1947)
- Lilith (Jerusalem Bible, 1966)
- lilith (New American Bible, 1970)
- night creature (NIV, 1978; NKJV, 1982; NLT, 1996)
- nightjar (New World Translation, 1984).
My point is merely this: yes the term "lilith" is found in a couple of versions of the Bible in Isaiah. But it is extremely frivilous to link a verse in Isaiah to Genesis by the way of non-Christian philosophy (like those found in the wiki page).
It is likely that when Bible scholars are translating Isaiah, they cannot find an equivalent to the word "lilith".
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:the law regarding incest was only passed down by God during moses time. and that was some time before adam and eve.
incest was forbidden by God at that point of time, because the gene pool was starting to break down. that's why people who practice incest, their kids are usually, for the lack of a better word, fucked up. deformities, low IQ, watever.
and it's the same reason why if you have kids with someone from another race, as far from the original gene pool as possible. the kids are really good looking etc.
it's true that adam and eve and their kids commited incest, but because at that time, the gene information was full, there was no chance of "bad information" passing down the generation.
until moses time.
This is a dangerous position to take, IMHO.
Suddenly the moral reason disappears to be replaced with the genetical reason.
And people can always wriggle their way out and say this is "not so bad". For example, look at Josef Fritzl. How many of his creations are of the farked up type because of genetical reason? AFAIK, none. (One boy was hunched 'cos the dungeon ceiling is too low)
Luckily Judaism does not take your position. The incest law was passed down even before Moses.
Originally posted by Jamie Zawinski:if all human descended from adam and eve, then at some point their children must be fucking each other to reproduce. why incest is not allowed then?
There must be other Adams and Eves also.present at that time as Adam and Eve is the term used in the good ole days to decribe male and female.specie Simi Insect???
Icemoon: With regards to "The incest law was passed down even before Moses.", could you show me where it was written?
Originally posted by 24/7:Icemoon: With regards to "The incest law was passed down even before Moses.", could you show me where it was written?
It is not explicitly written in the Bible.
But, and here is where I throw a challenge to the readers, if the incest law was passed down only during Moses' time, then on what basis can we say Lot's daughters commited a sin with their dad?
Originally posted by Icemoon:It is not explicitly written in the Bible.
But, and here is where I throw a challenge to the readers, if the incest law was passed down only during Moses' time, then on what basis can we say Lot's daughters commited a sin with their dad?
Icemoon: I've read Gen 19, didnt come across the place which said Lot's daughters committed a sin? If i'm not wrong, it was matter of factly recorded by Moses as historical and not labelled a sin till Leviticus.
About where the incest law was written b4 Moses, i'm happy if you refer to me outside of the Bible as well.
At the same time, i wonder what would Judaism say about incest between Adam and Eve? And why does God disallow it (after Adam and b4 Moses)?
Originally posted by 24/7:Icemoon: I've read Gen 19, didnt come across the place which said Lot's daughters committed a sin? If i'm not wrong, it was matter of factly recorded by Moses as historical and not labelled a sin till Leviticus.
Wah leow .. must everything be stated in black and white?
Your line of thought is preposterous. The Bible also never record murder as a sin before Cain committed the first murder. IIRC, the only commandment given to Adam in black and white was not to eat from the tree. But clearly, murder is a sin because God told Cain that sin is ready to pounce on him and that punishment was melted out to Cain.
The Jewish position is that Lot's daughters committed a sin. From that sinful act the Moabites and Ammonites were born. These people and the Jews buay gam one.
Originally posted by 24/7:At the same time, i wonder what would Judaism say about incest between Adam and Eve? And why does God disallow it (after Adam and b4 Moses)?
How come you say Adam and Eve got incest leh?
Originally posted by Jamie Zawinski:in fact, there was a 2nd period of incest. the great flood wiped out all human on earth except noah and his family. the members definitely committed incest in order to procreate.
this makes me thing about D.Grayman now...
damn it.
Originally posted by 24/7:About where the incest law was written b4 Moses, i'm happy if you refer to me outside of the Bible as well.
The short answer, from the Jewish position, is that the commandments did not suddenly come at one shot.
if god create human beings, pray ask me who create god?
Originally posted by 798:if god create human beings, pray ask me who create god?
google? because this question has been asked a million times before.
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:google? because this question has been asked a million times before.
none christians or true followers can answer dat? i'm so disappointed dat many claim to be strong believers. LoL!