The Fate of the Five
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Recently Eternal Hope has a new forummer who make me feel nostalgic about the history of the Church. He reminds me of Pope Nicholas who talks about church history and patristics.
So my question for this topic, what has become of the five Patriarchate today?
It is a shame while the Bishop of Rome is known universally today, little is known about the Bishop of cities like Antioch and Jerusalem. Who can even tell me their names? -
Don't they still exist within the Cath Church and EO?
EO's Patriach of Antioch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greek_Orthodox_Patriarchs_of_Antioch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Syriac_Orthodox_Patriarchs_of_Antioch
Cath's Patriach of Antioch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Maronite_Patriarchs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Syriac_Catholic_Patriarchs_of_Antioch
Alexandria: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarch_of_Alexandria#Jurisdictional_claimants_to_the_title_of_Patriarch_of_Alexandria
The Latin Patriarch of Constantinople, Alexandria and Antioch was abolished in 1965. -
this whole thing is too political for me to understand.
can someone summarise? haha .. like how come got EO and Cat patriarchs in same city one. -
They excommunicated each other in 1054AD and appointed different guys to the job.Originally posted by Icemoon:this whole thing is too political for me to understand.
can someone summarise? haha .. like how come got EO and Cat patriarchs in same city one.
Originally they had Z to do the job. After schism -
Caths appoint X
EO appoint Y
So 2 different Patriarchs haha!!! -
Do they meet together to celebrate easter and christmas?Originally posted by vadermanu89:They excommunicated each other in 1054AD and appointed different guys to the job.
Originally they had Z to do the job. After schism -
Caths appoint X
EO appoint Y
So 2 different Patriarchs haha!!!
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Didn't the Pope and Patriach celebrated Mass together recently?Originally posted by Icemoon:Do they meet together to celebrate easter and christmas? -
Personally, this is my take on the Pentarchy system
Patriach of the West aka Pope drew his power and authority as being the Successor of Peter. His powers is such because he inherits the Petrine Office and is Christ Steward
The Eastern Patriachs traditionally drew their powers from the Eastern Roman Empire and later the Byzantine Emperor. The Emperors appointed the Patriaches who in turn were expected to toe the Emperor's line for the good of the Empire. If the Emperor was Arian, most of the Eastern Patriarchs were Arians as proven in the Arian Controversy. In some sense, the Eastern religion was the first state- Christian religion.
After the demise of the Byzantine Emperor, the Eastern patriachs lost their temporal authority and the post is now obsolete. -
so who was the conducting priest? from Roman or EO?Originally posted by vadermanu89:Didn't the Pope and Patriach celebrated Mass together recently? -
News:Originally posted by Icemoon:so who was the conducting priest? from Roman or EO? Nov. 30, 2006 (CWNews.com) - Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) joined Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I in celebrating the Divine Liturgy on November 30, the promise that had brought him on his 4-day visit to Turkey.
They celebrated the Byzantine Rite together.
Pope Benedict was greeted at the patriarchal church of St. George, in the ancient Phanar section of Istanbul, with the ringing of the church's bells. He then joined the Patriarch in the Byzantine liturgy, with each prelate delivering a homily. After the ceremony, the Pope and the Patriarch joined in signing a joint declaration, affirming their commitment to the pursuit of full Christian unity.
In his homily during the Thursday service, Pope Benedict carefully expressed his deference toward the Constantinople patriarchate. He began by noting that St. Andrew, whose was being celebrated, was the apostle who brought his brother Simon to Jesus. And he referred to Rome and Constantinople as "sister churches." Still, later in his homily the Pope defended the primacy of Rome, observing that St. Peter traveled from Jerusalem to Antioch and then to Rome, "so that in that city he might exercise a universal responsibility."
The Pontiff acknowledged that the subject of papal primacy "has unfortunately given rise to our difference of opinion, which we hope to overcome." He recalled that Pope John Paul II (bio - news) had asked other Christian churches to suggest how the Petrine ministry should be exercised today, in a way that would ease the concerns of the Eastern churches without neglecting the papal responsibility for unity within the universal Church. Pope Benedict renewed that invitation.
"I can assure you that the Catholic Church is willing to do everything possible to overcome obstacles" to full Christian unity, the Pope said. He added: "The divisions which exist among Christians are a scandal to the world and an obstacle to the proclamation of the Gospel."
Patriarch Bartholomew, in his own homily, did not directly address the practical questions of ecumenism, although he referred to the Pontiff as "our brother and bishop of the elder Rome." -
I suppose it sounds byzantine to the worshippers as well.Originally posted by vadermanu89:They celebrated the Byzantine Rite together. -
I think its in Greek haha. Both the CC and EO uses the same liturgy so no technical difficulties with Pope and Patriarch celebrating the Mass together.Originally posted by Icemoon:I suppose it sounds byzantine to the worshippers as well. -
same liturgy as in what? the ordinary form of the Mass?Originally posted by vadermanu89:I think its in Greek haha. Both the CC and EO uses the same liturgy so no technical difficulties with Pope and Patriarch celebrating the Mass together. -
As in the Byzantine Rite of the Catholic Church and the Greek Churches within the Orthodox Church both uses the same liturgy. This is why both of them are able to celebrate it together haha!Originally posted by Icemoon:same liturgy as in what? the ordinary form of the Mass? -
lol .. i dunno what byzantine rite of the Catholic Church. does Singapore have it?Originally posted by vadermanu89:As in the Byzantine Rite of the Catholic Church -
Singapore doesn't have any Eastern Catholic ChurchesOriginally posted by Icemoon:lol .. i dunno what byzantine rite of the Catholic Church. does Singapore have it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_RiteCatholic Byzantine Rite:
There is the EO Byzantine Rite as well. Both uses the same Byzantine Liturgy.
These Particular Churches are considered sui iuris churches in full communion with the Holy See
Albanian Byzantine Catholic Church
Belarusian Byzantine Catholic Church
Bulgarian Greek Catholic Church
Byzantine Church of the Eparchy of Križevci
Greek Byzantine Catholic Church
Melkite Greek Catholic Church
Hungarian Greek Catholic Church
Italo-Albanian Catholic Church
Macedonian Byzantine Catholic Church
Romanian Church United with Rome, Greek-Catholic
Russian Catholic Church
Ruthenian Catholic Church
Slovak Greek Catholic Church
Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church -
Bishop should show his magnaminity by inviting an Eastern priest to conduct the byzantine Mass.Originally posted by vadermanu89:Singapore doesn't have any Eastern Catholic Churches -
That would be coolOriginally posted by Icemoon:Bishop should show his magnaminity by inviting an Eastern priest to conduct the byzantine Mass. Maybe even invite an EO priest from S'pore in the name of Ecumenism haha! -
As a matter of fact, there was an Eastern Divine Liturgy a few months back. I announced it on Roman Catholics.
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=278980
Videos are on Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=singapore+divine+liturgy&search=Search -
I forgot to add, there are Eastern Orthodox churches here. It's a bit complicated though.
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But there isn't any ECC parishes here right? Most of them should be in Mid-East...Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:I forgot to add, there are Eastern Orthodox churches here. It's a bit complicated though. -
No, no Eastern Catholic parish here. But the community of Greek-Catholics is growing.Originally posted by vadermanu89:But there isn't any ECC parishes here right? Most of them should be in Mid-East... -
Then how do they attend Masses? They would have no choice but to attend the Pauline Masses. This seems like a latinization of our Eastern brethenOriginally posted by SingaporeMacross:No, no Eastern Catholic parish here. But the community of Greek-Catholics is growing.
Incidentally, since the Eastern Church do not accept purgatory, is the doctrine an infallible dogma? Or are the concepts behind the doctrine infallible? A dogma can only be infallible if it is accepted by the Universal Church. -
I thought if Pope says so, it must be so?Originally posted by vadermanu89:Incidentally, since the Eastern Church do not accept purgatory, is the doctrine an infallible dogma? Or are the concepts behind the doctrine infallible? A dogma can only be infallible if it is accepted by the Universal Church. -
Only if he binds it to the Universal Church. Most Papal teachings/encyclicals are binding to the Roman Church only.Originally posted by Icemoon:I thought if Pope says so, it must be so? -
which means Protestant churches can ignore also.Originally posted by vadermanu89:Only if he binds it to the Universal Church. Most Papal teachings/encyclicals are binding to the Roman Church only.