The world is created by god or devil?
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I would like to point out that I don't even believe that Adam and Eve existed. :p
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Oh .. you mean should be Adam and Steve instead?Originally posted by Phaze:I would like to point out that I don't even believe that Adam and Eve existed. :p
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Genesis 3
God did not want us to have sickness, suffering etc, and live for eternity.
22 Then the Lord God said, ‘See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever’— -
you should ask yourself, why was the tree of life mentioned together with the tree of good and evil at the beginning? since they were immortals, no use for the tree anyway.Originally posted by davidche:God did not want us to have sickness, suffering etc, and live for eternity. -
Well okay. Let's say for the sake of argument that Adam and Eve disobeyed god and their punishment was justified.
How is the punishment of their descendants justified?
Let's take another example.
2 Samuel 12:13-14
12:13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
So instead of punishing David for his sin, God instead kills his child. True, it was a punishment for David as well but how can this be justified? -
wah .. Phaze quotes from King James ah .. english hard to read.
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You can't even question your own leaders how can you question GodOriginally posted by Phaze:So instead of punishing David for his sin, God instead kills his child. True, it was a punishment for David as well but how can this be justified?
Okat maybe that is not the smartest answer but you did see the point? -
how dare you question Phaze!Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:You can't even question your own leaders how can you question God
Okat maybe that is not the smartest answer but you did see the point? -
Pointless point...Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:You can't even question your own leaders how can you question God
Okat maybe that is not the smartest answer but you did see the point? -
is a pointless point necessarily pointless?Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Pointless point...
like in mathematics .. an empty set that contains an empty set .. issit empty? -
Why did Jiang Zi Ya fish with a straight hook? Get the meaning?Originally posted by Icemoon:is a pointless point necessarily pointless?
like in mathematics .. an empty set that contains an empty set .. issit empty? -
Erm... I don't understand. :pOriginally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:You can't even question your own leaders how can you question God
Okat maybe that is not the smartest answer but you did see the point? -
So who's the jiang taigong now?Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Why did Jiang Zi Ya fish with a straight hook? Get the meaning?
That fella wants to hook who up the line? -
in the first place, why do you guys quote from a book that contains stuff suitable only for children's bedtime stories?
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Because many people believe that those children's bedtime stories are divinely inspired. Whether that is true or not pales in significance to the fact that there are many who are willing to lie, cheat, steal or die to protect that belief.Originally posted by Jamie Zawinski:in the first place, why do you guys quote from a book that contains stuff suitable only for children's bedtime stories? -
I wanna hook worthy irreligionists up the line.Originally posted by Icemoon:So who's the jiang taigong now?
That fella wants to hook who up the line?
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what? so you are that OLD MAN?Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:I wanna hook worthy irreligionists up the line. -
You did see this thread's title? Just what kind of question is that?Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Pointless point...
Just try to see world governments and societies what values are they trying to build unto their children and their general society? of order, of justice, of kindness, of valuing life, on manners with regards to other people feelings, of integrity, honesty, truthfulness, compassion, fairness,etc ,etc.
Each of us know what is good and what is evil. And we all know which to follow....
The answer should be clear I thought.
Think of evil that's happening as a deviation from norm. We all still know wthat is right and what is wrong even when we don't want to admit them. even when we do evil. For a man who doesn't know good is not guilty of his sins. If you do not feel evil after committing evil you cannot be condemned for what you've done. you can only feel evil when you know what good is.
Before you flame me lemme find a corner inside a tank behemoth to hide . Okay now shoot! -
What I see from this reply is, "People must have blind faith in order to believe."Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:You can't even question your own leaders how can you question God
Okat maybe that is not the smartest answer but you did see the point?
tsk tsk tsk... blind faith tsk tsk tsk -
But what we "know" as good and evil and large what we have been taught by our culture.Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:You did see this thread's title? Just what kind of question is that?
Just try to see world governments and societies what values are they trying to build unto their children and their general society? of order, of justice, of kindness, of valuing life, on manners with regards to other people feelings, of integrity, honesty, truthfulness, compassion, fairness,etc ,etc.
Each of us know what is good and what is evil. And we all know which to follow....
The answer should be clear I thought.
Think of evil that's happening as a deviation from norm. We all still know wthat is right and what is wrong even when we don't want to admit them. even when we do evil. For a man who doesn't know good is not guilty of his sins. If you do not feel evil after committing evil you cannot be condemned for what you've done. you can only feel evil when you know what good is.
Before you flame me lemme find a corner inside a tank behemoth to hide . Okay now shoot!
In some cultures, honor killing is the 'just' and 'right' thing to do. -
There's a theory that the idea of god punishing descendants is actually due to biblical writers trying to explain natural disasters and conquests by other nations.
One of the 'innovations' that allowed the Yahweh cult to survive was the idea of that God would punish his own people for their sins and the idea of delayed punishment.
A religion would typically die out of a people was conquered by another. The defeated people would generally adopt the religion of the conquerors. However, the Yahweh cult made defeat by another nation a punishment from god, and part of god's plan, thereby making defeat not a defeat at all.
Now that defeat becomes the result of god's wrath, the biblical writers had to explain why 'good' kings for example experienced defeats and natural disasters while some 'bad' kings had long, trouble free reigns. So they explained it by saying, "oh well, THIS king is good but look at the last king, he was terrible. So now god is punishing us. It's not this king's fault, it's that last terrible king." -
faith in itself is blind. I dont know what you are trying to say.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:What I see from this reply is, "People must have blind faith in order to believe."
tsk tsk tsk... blind faith tsk tsk tsk 
Faith is needed to believe as much as a mouth is needed to consume an apple. -
Then we go down to arguing definitions again. How do you define faith?Originally posted by davidche:faith in itself is blind. I dont know what you are trying to say.
Faith is needed to believe as much as a mouth is needed to consume an apple.
If you define faith as belief without any reason, I would say okay, faith itself is blind.
But that's not how we commonly use the word faith, therefore, we add a qualifier in front to make it "blind faith."
For example, if someone asked me, "do you have faith/believe that the sun will rise tomorrow.", I would reply "yes."
But I have very good reasons to believe that the sun will rise tomorrow. -
I came across an article that is sort of related to the free will argument that SpecialOps made.
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2008/01/debunking-other.html
If God created us and gave us freedom, then as a loving parent his moral concern should be that we that we don’t abuse the freedom he gave us in the ways we do. The giver of a gift is blameworthy if he gives gifts to those whom he knows will terribly abuse those gifts. Any parent who gives a razor blade to a two year old is culpable if that child hurts himself or others with it. Good parents give their children more and more freedom to do what they want so long as they are responsible with their freedom. They should not give them the keys to the car until they can legitimately be responsible to drive, nor buy them any beer until they can legitimately drink responsibly. And if children abuse the freedoms given to them, good parents will discipline them by taking away their opportunities to make these choices. It’s that simple. God fails miserably as a parent! Admit it. Paul Draper wrote, “we would expect God would behave like a good parent, giving humans great responsibility only when we are worthy of it.”
Furthermore, if my parents sat by and did nothing while my brother beat me to death, and if they had the means to stop him and didnÂ’t, then they are morally responsible for letting me die. They could even be considered accomplices. Your God is not a loving parent.
Besides, why should we as human beings have to learn the consequences of our actions by such draconian kinds of sufferings when we err? When my children misbehaved or didn’t understand the consequences of their actions, I didn’t send a proverbial hurricane their way. In fact, as a parent I sought to protect them as much as I could from the extreme consequences of their actions. A little pain was a good thing, so they could learn from their mistakes. But no caring father would let them suffer the full brunt of their mistakes—no father. That's a miserable parent to allow this, so if the Christian wants to use this analogy then by the same standards God fails miserably as a parent. My parents weren't perfect, but they were much better than this God of yours! -
lol .. good blog (and good name too), can the mod make this a sticky?Originally posted by Phaze:I came across an article that is sort of related to the free will argument that SpecialOps made.
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2008/01/debunking-other.html