Why miracles do not happen in modern society?
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??? Getting away? Getting away from what? Don't twist things ok?Originally posted by laurence82:Simply getting away by coming with 'paradigms' isnt it?
doesnt work on me
It's true, your idea/expectation/notion of God is different from mine. I'm not expecting you to believe my notion, I'm just telling you it's different. -
yes getting away
i know among other excuses i have heard, include 'freedom of speech'
basically it means freedom to spew nonsense
*shrugs* -
A few books.Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:What's the title of his book btw?
One of which is - An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding. -
I do not mean to impose on anyone anything. I'm just telling my view.Originally posted by LazerLordz:You cannot impose this worldview on those who do not subscribe to it.
God created free will for His creation.
From my experience even menacing evil spirit ran(like fleeing real fast, turned tail and run) when I called out to God for help(what else could I do). Err maybe he wasn't so menacing after all??
So much for being evil eh. I remember that spirit name: Olazhong. Pronounced like that. Maybe he was Chinese spirit eh? It wasn't like in the movies. The spirit turned tail and ran right away(under 1 seconds) after I asked for God's help. Man.....the Lord hadn't even come yet...aiyo so afraid are you? More like terrorized to death....
So even evil submit.
Never knew one could still cause problem after being dead LOL -
What about the souless?Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:Everything is His Zwei, everything is His including you
Even the most sinful person or the smallest creatures on earth is His.
Everything. Visible or not. Evil or Good. All submit. All His. -
Miracles&Prophecies .. what happened?
how come edit and re-edit your reply so many times?? -
Why miracles do not happen in modern society? [page: 1, 2]
...which presupposes that it happened in the past... and without sound evidence... that is just a convenient supposition... -
I guess you must be mistaken regarding my this stand on 'freedom of speech'.Originally posted by laurence82:yes getting away
i know among other excuses i have heard, include 'freedom of speech'
basically it means freedom to spew nonsense
*shrugs*
But you know, once again, this advice is good for you. Don't use freedom of speech as an excuse for yourself. -
Coming back to the earlier point though laurence, all I was telling you is the concept/notion/idea/expectation you have of God is different from that of my own. Not about whether his real or not, but our individual concepts of God are different. Quite simply that, I guess you just can't understand me.
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It did not add value, neither did u attempt to show it add value
Yet another pointless posts
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Even during the Apostolic Age, there wasn;t much miracles to begin with. In 3 decades, Scripture clearly speaks of how the Apostles and a few of their successors performed miracles. It was not a free for all miracle sprouting NT Church. If it was, the Jews would have long converted. Incidentally, in the modern day, I believe out of 7 billion people, there will definitely be at least a handful of genuine miracles being performed. The Catholics and Orthodox Christians have their Saints and Relics and even liturgical miracles while the Charismatic Churches do have a few 'proper' healing cases. Hence in mathematical sense, I think the miracle variable has remained constant.
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It's a God of the Gaps thing.
We fill gaps in our knowledge with god. Miracles are used to explain things that we do not understand.
Lightning flashes across the sky, and we hear thunder. We imagine gods doing battle in the sky.
A plane crashes. Hundreds of people are killed but there is a single survivor. We proclaim in a miracle, forgetting that no miracle happened for the hundreds who died.
We pray for rain during drought and thank god when rains finally come. But we overlook the fact that rain would eventually come anyway. We also overlook that the little rain received does nothing to alleviate the drought.
As we learn more, as we grow in knowledge, miracles vanish because we know there are no miracles.
Just mere hundreds of years ago, if a man claimed to be able to walk on water, people who go, "he has mystical, magic powers" or "the gods have given him powers."
A shaman could read the signs that rain was coming, and then do a rain dance. His people would proclaim that their shaman is mighty indeed, for his dance can bring rain.
When Pope John Paul II was shot in an assassination attempt, he claimed that "a motherly hand which guided the bullet's path", enabling the "dying Pope" to halt "at the threshold of death". The motherly hand he referred to was the Lady of Fatima. For some reason, the good lady decided not to guide the bullet to miss the Pope completely. Nor did he seem to remember that he was attended to by the best doctors in the world, who may possibly have had something to do with his survival.
Now, we know better than to take such claims at face value.
Benny Hinn and other hucksters claim that God performs miracles through him. Benny Hinn claims that many people have been miraculously healed. Many people are taken in. It seems people will believe anything just like people who believe in James Phang and Sunshine Empire. But there have been many investigative reports that show that Benny Hinn is a fraud. Those whom he claim to have healed are not. And many who try to get on the stage are turned away.
We see miracles everyday. Street magicians routinely turn water into wine, levitate, or perform seemingly miraculous acts.
It's not that miracles don't happen anymore. It's just that now we know better. -
if you accept Chuck Norris as God, you will know the true meaning of Chucktorship.
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I don't accept Chuck Norris as God.Originally posted by inf4ntry:if you accept Chuck Norris as God, you will know the true meaning of Chucktorship.
Chuck Norris is a christian fundie. -
Hmm I had things to add , fix some misspellings, better than adding anohter new reply altogether. Sorry if I confuse you.Originally posted by Icemoon:Miracles&Prophecies .. what happened?
how come edit and re-edit your reply so many times??
how do you multi quote here? -
Hi Zwei i do not know everything but I do believe every human being has a soul. I do know that even dog has a soul. Don't ask me how I knew that? LOLOriginally posted by Herzog_Zwei:What about the souless? -
@Phaze
Yes there was a time that we yell miracle to every phenomenon we didn't quite understand.
There have been countless people misusing God's name and misleading great many of people with fake/fraud miracles.
If you read about the history of the crusade, it was plentiful of those fraud miracles. Usually being the discovery of a certain relic that help won a battle but it was found to be a fraud later. I can only say SHAME ON THOSE PEOPLE.
There are however genuine divine miracles, much of it went unrecorded unfortunately some got into good Christian testament books. God will not give signs and wonder to those who don't believe yet but He gave miracles to those who already believe in Him even that, not every believers would see miracle in his life. Do you live to chase after miracles and signs? You think God is some kind of entertainer and wonder maker just to entertain you? Do you really think that He would like every single of us to see His miracle so that all of us will believe?
In order to experience miracle one must step on the path that Jesus showed and taught us. I'm not telling you have to be a saint to have one but one must follow God sincerely in order to experience or see His divine work. A lot of people think they are following God but sadly they are not. Genuine miracles in most circumstances are quite personal and they happen to ordinary people who may not be willing to talk about their experience. I'm just saying miracles still happen. But if you live to seek miracle solely just for the sake of seeing it, Good luck to you....that is not how it works.
Edit:
You don't get to see miracles. Miracles get to you. Something like that.
Though you may 'trigger' it like by praying for it. But still it's not the man's wonder for the man himself can do nothing to invoke it. A man can only ask. -
You watch too much "All Dogs go to Heaven".Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:Hi Zwei i do not know everything but I do believe every human being has a soul. I do know that even dog has a soul. Don't ask me how I knew that? LOL -
inf4ntry, thanks for the humour, but I suggest you better quit while you are ahead before I make a phone call to your camp commander to drop you into DB with a pink shirt.Originally posted by inf4ntry:if you accept Chuck Norris as God, you will know the true meaning of Chucktorship.
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Perhaps it will be good to state what kind of miracles you are looking for.
The world has continually moved towards independance in their quest to survive. Through the acquiring of knowledge by scientific methods, there is not much of a need for miracles these days(as many people believe to be so).
From my point of view, as a Christian, I believe this is what God intends. God gave us charge over all the creation on earth. He definitely gave us the ability to survive by our hands; to work this land so that God's glory can be seen. Divine interention comes only when God wants to establish His identity.
So with all the advancements we have today, what miracles do we need? We can achieve so much without divine intervention.
There remains only one thing. A right relationship with God (if you believe He exists). And that miracle He gave. Through His Son, Jesus Christ borned on Christmas day. -
I agree the greatest miracle of all is for God to redeemed back us, sinners, to be worthy of His Kingdom inheritance.Originally posted by sillyme:Perhaps it will be good to state what kind of miracles you are looking for.
The world has continually moved towards independance in their quest to survive. Through the acquiring of knowledge by scientific methods, there is not much of a need for miracles these days(as many people believe to be so).
From my point of view, as a Christian, I believe this is what God intends. God gave us charge over all the creation on earth. He definitely gave us the ability to survive by our hands; to work this land so that God's glory can be seen. Divine interention comes only when God wants to establish His identity.
So with all the advancements we have today, what miracles do we need? We can achieve so much without divine intervention.
There remains only one thing. A right relationship with God (if you believe He exists). And that miracle He gave. Through His Son, Jesus Christ born on Christmas day.
But to state that with what have have today we have no need for any miracle would be...kinda silly in my opinion. We just know a little. For God's sake we still rocket launched our space ship with fossil fuel and the biggest part of the space shuttle is its external fuel tanks. . We still can't defeat the smallest living creature on earth: AIDS virus. Humanity outwitted by the tiniest creature there is. The planet is gonna sink because we think wealth is more precious than our own sole planet. The risk of global starvation because of climate changes due to global warming is very real.
We ARE NOT THAT ADVANCED, technologically or morally. -
... there is no evidence of God...
... we are only sinners if there is a law that states we are sinners.. and laws made by man are unreliable and only laws made by God are trust-worthy and stands but there is no evidence of God...
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This I agree, I also agree on there is no Karma, no rebirth.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:... there is no evidence of God...
... we are only sinners if there is a law that states we are sinners.. and laws made by man are unreliable and only laws made by God are trust-worthy and stands but there is no evidence of God...
... -
It depends on what you consider to be advanced. However, we are much more advanced technologically and morally than we were even 100 years ago.Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:I agree the greatest miracle of all is for God to redeemed back us, sinners, to be worthy of His Kingdom inheritance.
But to state that with what have have today we have no need for any miracle would be...kinda silly in my opinion. We just know a little. For God's sake we still rocket launched our space ship with fossil fuel and the biggest part of the space shuttle is its external fuel tanks. . We still can't defeat the smallest living creature on earth: AIDS virus. Humanity outwitted by the tiniest creature there is. The planet is gonna sink because we think wealth is more precious than our own sole planet. The risk of global starvation because of climate changes due to global warming is very real.
We ARE NOT THAT ADVANCED, technologically or morally.
No doubt there are problems in this world. But salvation will come from us, not from some imaginary god.
At one time, people believed the world was running out of food - that the planet could not sustain the number of people on the earth today. However, advances in agriculture helped to overcome that problem although since the population keeps growing, it will never be fully solved. In any case, world hunger today is not a supply issue - it's a distribution issue.
Right now AIDS is not really the greatest threat. The greatest threat is probably avian flu. Once again, it's up to use to find a cure (for AIDS we are getting close) and to prepare for a possible outbreak of avian flu. There is no god to save us.
In Matthew 6:26, Jesus said, "Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?"
This is a funny example to give. Life is a struggle. Most birds die before they ever leave the nest. Many more die early in life. A relatively small number survive. Thank 'god' we do not rely on god to feed us.
And I find it funny that you mention environmental issues as one of the dangers. Do you realize that it's mostly Christians that are global warming denialist? Or even if they don't deny it, they argue that "well god gave us dominion over the earth", or "god will take us of us", or "well we will be raptured away soon so global warming doesn't really matter." -
That's very convenient isn't it. And kinda circular too. Let's see. Miracles only occur if you believe they are miracles. Basically, you take events, both ordinary and extraordinary and interpret them as miracles. I suppose you can choose to believe that but you must realize that you can't have it both ways. If that's how you define a miracle, then you cannot use a miracle as evidence for the existence of god.Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:@Phaze
Yes there was a time that we yell miracle to every phenomenon we didn't quite understand.
There have been countless people misusing God's name and misleading great many of people with fake/fraud miracles.
If you read about the history of the crusade, it was plentiful of those fraud miracles. Usually being the discovery of a certain relic that help won a battle but it was found to be a fraud later. I can only say SHAME ON THOSE PEOPLE.
There are however genuine divine miracles, much of it went unrecorded unfortunately some got into good Christian testament books. God will not give signs and wonder to those who don't believe yet but He gave miracles to those who already believe in Him even that, not every believers would see miracle in his life. Do you live to chase after miracles and signs? You think God is some kind of entertainer and wonder maker just to entertain you? Do you really think that He would like every single of us to see His miracle so that all of us will believe?
In order to experience miracle one must step on the path that Jesus showed and taught us. I'm not telling you have to be a saint to have one but one must follow God sincerely in order to experience or see His divine work. A lot of people think they are following God but sadly they are not. Genuine miracles in most circumstances are quite personal and they happen to ordinary people who may not be willing to talk about their experience. I'm just saying miracles still happen. But if you live to seek miracle solely just for the sake of seeing it, Good luck to you....that is not how it works.
Edit:
You don't get to see miracles. Miracles get to you. Something like that.
Though you may 'trigger' it like by praying for it. But still it's not the man's wonder for the man himself can do nothing to invoke it. A man can only ask.
I've always wondered why people choose to believe in a god who is so unreasonable that he wants people to believe in him without any reason.
But on a more serious note, this has led to a very serious blame the victim mentality. Just go on youtube and you'll find shows where people who have attended Benny Hinn's healing crusades making excuses for why they weren't healed. Many of them blame themselves. They say they didn't have enough faith and that's why god didn't cure them. But you know these people stopped going to doctors, went off medication, because they believed god would cure them. Who has more faith than that? They bet their life on god.