No more sin-consicous?
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I attended my friend's church last week and heard some strange theology from the pastor. The pastor says that we do not need to have the sin conscious in our chrisitan life because we are already saved by grace. Before the visit, i already heard from some of my christian friends abt this church, which talks abt grace all the time. finally, i have the opportunity to check out whether their comments were biased or not by attending the services. The best thing was that the pastor was quite outright with his strange theology as he attended the Hillsong Europe Conference as one of the guest speaker. I believe this church will continue to grow because the pastor is preaching something that the people like and strongly agreed. I guess every sinner will want to attend a church like this which tolerate and accomodates sins.
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Y so different teaching from my chuch...
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Every church teach different things nowsdays. The pastor also tells the people that he never want the church to be involved in fund raising becos the church is rich not becos the people gave to the church but becos the church belongs to God. While the biggest church in Spore always do fund raising. It is soon becoming a joke to the non-believers that church is teaching different theology/teachings.
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Not really, being sin-concious is akin to Buddhism's wisdom of the acts of all things while not trying to repent of each and every action and decision you make in life.Originally posted by latterrain:I attended my friend's church last week and heard some strange theology from the pastor. The pastor says that we do not need to have the sin conscious in our chrisitan life because we are already saved by grace. Before the visit, i already heard from some of my christian friends abt this church, which talks abt grace all the time. finally, i have the opportunity to check out whether their comments were biased or not by attending the services. The best thing was that the pastor was quite outright with his strange theology as he attended the Hillsong Europe Conference as one of the guest speaker. I believe this church will continue to grow because the pastor is preaching something that the people like and strongly agreed. I guess every sinner will want to attend a church like this which tolerate and accomodates sins. -
... let me guess... New Creation Church????
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:... let me guess... New Creation Church????
Shhh...
Very much like it. Oops!
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This is not what the church teaches.Originally posted by latterrain:I guess every sinner will want to attend a church like this which tolerate and accomodates sins.
Assuming we got the church correct, the pastor also quoted Jesus, in another of his sermons, telling the prostitute "go and sin no more".
We are dealing with complex theology here called soteriology. Many Christians lack a good understanding of soteriology as taught by the church fathers and pioneers, which is why it is easy to be confused by modern church teachings. -
It is the responsiblity of the speaker to speak with clarity and making sure that the context and intent is delivered to the audience in a clear fashion.Originally posted by Icemoon:This is not what the church teaches.
Assuming we got the church correct, the pastor also quoted Jesus, in another of his sermons, telling the prostitute "go and sin no more".
We are dealing with complex theology here called soteriology. Many Christians lack a good understanding of soteriology as taught by the church fathers and pioneers, which is why it is easy to be confused by modern church teachings.
What seems to me is the problem that has stuck on for many years.
Let's say what he teach is Soteriology.
How were Young believers and visitors misled to conclude that it is a 'grace sermon'?
Why did Senior Pastors from megachurches as well as the Pastors and elders orthodorx churches around REJECT the teachings of that church? That is unless you refer these people as 'Christians lacking good understanding of Soteriology'
Using modern languages and humorous teachings mixing together with NLP thoughts/fashion does not mean he spoke in the right note.
How people (visitors or members) were to confront the message is very clear on how the Pastor is teaching his sheep.
Are people lacking understanding of biblical truths and teachings of the church fathers? We do not know very much about the individual understanding of people in this case.
Like we've discussed before. There need to be balance in all teachings.
The balance comes with both the discernment and understanding of the listener.
They(members) could easily say it's because people didn't understand why he spoke that way. People didn't understand him enough.
I see the deeper issue lies with the speaker than the listeners. -
Actually if you slowly listen and transcribe all that he has said in different sermons, and read his book...u'll realise its quite self contradicting.
One moment no sin-consciousness, one moment go and sin no more, one moment say "forever forgiven, even your future sins that you haven't even confess", next moment he say he also believe must repent and confess.
He's self contradicting, preaching different things to different people, depending which sounds more popular.
Haven't u notice that no other church in Singapore wants to be associated with them? Every church has drawn a line from them, because its a self contradicting theology that is just to draw popularity.... -
Even Different Denominations have different teaching too...Originally posted by latterrain:Every church teach different things nowsdays. The pastor also tells the people that he never want the church to be involved in fund raising becos the church is rich not becos the people gave to the church but becos the church belongs to God. While the biggest church in Spore always do fund raising. It is soon becoming a joke to the non-believers that church is teaching different theology/teachings.
My Friends all from different denominations we all find the church teaching different loh... -
catholic alot diff from protestant.
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Perharps people are lacking the understanding of biblical truths and teachings of the church fathers becos the modern churches doesn't teach at all. Most churches concentrate on a topic that they are good at, and bulit their church foundation on that particular topic. There are no balance teachings in the churches now becos it is difficult to have a balance christian life. The truth is that churches can only grow if they teach something fashionable and a commitment free christian life.
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Yes that what Father tell me...Originally posted by Cool-gal:catholic alot diff from protestant. -
and very differnt from the word of Yahweh.Originally posted by Cool-gal:catholic alot diff from protestant. -
how come your siggie's "deeper truth" go back to SGforum home page hah?Originally posted by breytonhartge:and very differnt from the word of Yahweh. -
I beg to differ...you haven't seen anything yet.Originally posted by latterrain:Perharps people are lacking the understanding of biblical truths and teachings of the church fathers becos the modern churches doesn't teach at all. Most churches concentrate on a topic that they are good at, and bulit their church foundation on that particular topic. There are no balance teachings in the churches now becos it is difficult to have a balance christian life. The truth is that churches can only grow if they teach something fashionable and a commitment free christian life.
There're churches that can still teach and give recognised theology education, at the same time remain relevant to society's problem, is a problem-solving asset to social problems, is a role-model that government agencies want to study on, reaching thousands in community work, yet also sending members every single week to various missions all over the world, yet still fun, happy and growing strong.
You just haven't seen it yet. -
....well the preacher is just being smart isn't he? ...selling people this version is very profitable... who is to say one version is better or worse than another.... what counts is the bottom line... who's version makes more money... this is how low the church has sunk...
... the church sinking so low.... now does that mean the second coming is sooner or later... I wonder which version... sooner or later makes more money.... hmmmmm..... -
I believe you have had certain experience in churches to think this way. Youre right in certain extend. Sunday teachings might have weakened and diluted to fit the ears of audience.Originally posted by latterrain:Perharps people are lacking the understanding of biblical truths and teachings of the church fathers becos the modern churches doesn't teach at all. Most churches concentrate on a topic that they are good at, and bulit their church foundation on that particular topic. There are no balance teachings in the churches now becos it is difficult to have a balance christian life. The truth is that churches can only grow if they teach something fashionable and a commitment free christian life.
I believe the Word of God is there to illuminate the teachings towards individuals before the church. So if people were to rely on church teachings. Then it is again a inbalance in Christian living again.
A daily Christian life is driven to partake the word and learn the Lord's way. This is how we are taught to live and walk with God. Are there anyways apart from taking the Word of God seriously and take it and cling on it like your very breath?
Unfortunately, it's two sided issue. What makes the ultimate knowledge in men?
Church teachings? Or Personal walk with the Word and Holy Spirit(Teacher)
We either question the state of a church or ourselves where our strength and belief in God is pivotal on.
But the fact i have to agree is, you have pointed out something very grieving which will hurt the body in the end. -
Its not true that all churches are into making money. Basically this certain preacher is only competing with himself, when he thought other large churches are competing with him, when they're really not.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:....well the preacher is just being smart isn't he? ...selling people this version is very profitable... who is to say one version is better or worse than another.... what counts is the bottom line... who's version makes more money... this is how low the church has sunk...
... the church sinking so low.... now does that mean the second coming is sooner or later... I wonder which version... sooner or later makes more money.... hmmmmm.....
The others are all busy with missions and community work, not interested in competition. -
danke for that... problem fixed...Originally posted by Chin Eng:how come your siggie's "deeper truth" go back to SGforum home page hah? -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
What do you mean?
Not really, being sin-concious is akin to Buddhism's wisdom of the acts of all thingswhile not trying to repent of each and every action and decision you make in life.
Repentance is stressed in Buddhism.
BTW, why is this being discussed in a Christian forum? -
This is the impression that the modern church is giving to people, regardless believers or non-belivevers. In our local content, the modern churches are pushing for figures and for more territories. the modern churches are praying against each other for more members and the message of salvation is misintepreted by the non-believers. That's the reason why i suggest that we lead an imbalance christian life becos the modern churches taught an imbalance chrisitan life.
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Not every church, u're gravely mistaken.Originally posted by latterrain:This is the impression that the modern church is giving to people, regardless believers or non-belivevers. In our local content, the modern churches are pushing for figures and for more territories. the modern churches are praying against each other for more members and the message of salvation is misintepreted by the non-believers. That's the reason why i suggest that we lead an imbalance christian life becos the modern churches taught an imbalance chrisitan life. -
yah lah .. every church except yours right?Originally posted by specialOps:Not every church, u're gravely mistaken.
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No..there're many good churches in Singapore. I'm just saying his opinion is wrong.
The churches are the Body of Christ. There may be some parts not doing so well or even ill and sick, but Jesus still reigns and rules, He is in control.
To say that all churches are gone case and so hopeless is wrong.