A qn from an atheist
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exactly my point. u say theres no proof as to where god came from so im asking u the same thing, where did the big bang come from?Originally posted by stupidissmart:maybe the answer is the same as where did god come from
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U see, u r asking an unfair question. If I answer u the answer to where the big bang come from, lets say the "small squash", u will then ask where did the "small squash" come from. If I answer where does the "small squash" come from, u will ask where did tat phenomenon comes from again.
There is no ending to it. But for your answer, u just put a big black hole "god" into the picture and suck in all the questions and give out no answers. U just ignore the fact tat in the end, something have to be out from nothing
If everything need to be created, then god have to be created too. How is god created ? If there is something tat do not need to be created, (lets say god) then let tat something can be something simpler like the "big bang". -
of course it is hard to believe there is a God to many
ppl one
why
Reason is simple
because one will not say got ghost until he see one
so same lor
if one never get to see God
of course said there is no God exist at all
but if one get to see God , might be too late liao
at times i also try not to believe there is a God exist at all
but i just cant -
if one never get to see God
Yah lor
of course said there is no God exist at all
but if one get to see God , might be too late liao
But there r few hundred different variety of god. So we got to believe all of them otherwise when we see them it is too late ? -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
Of course it can. What do you think the many religious scholars are here for? What is the purpose of the True Church then, if not to protect the faith from people who wish to change the Bible or create their own cults and call them Christianity?
If someone sometime add a line into the bible on its own, can it be detected ? Nope. -
Ah but why must u seperate science from religion? Let's say I take a pregnant monkey, wait for it to give birth and then kill the mother and put the babies in a room which is similar to its natural habitat.Originally posted by stupidissmart:U see, u r asking an unfair question. If I answer u the answer to where the big bang come from, lets say the "small squash", u will then ask where did the "small squash" come from. There is never ending to it. But for your answer, u just put a big black hole "god" into the picture and suck in all the questions and give out no answers
If everything need to be created, then god have to be created too. How is god created ? If there is something tat do not need to be created, (lets say god) then let tat something can be something simpler like the "big bang".
So the monkeys start to form a community and grow up, all of which have no idea of the existence of anything outside the room. But then they start to find that the trees and plantlife planted in the room have traces that they weren't there to begin with i.e. the gardening tools. So the monkeys (pretty smart monkeys I guess) conclude that their universe (the room) was created by the synergy and coming-together of gardening tools.
All evidence supports their theory because it is true that I did use the gardening tools to create their universe but they still have no way to prove my existence. So technically, because I created their universe I am their 'god'. Some monkeys start to believe in a creator (me) even though they have no evidence of my existence and there's no way they'll find evidence of me because I'm not part of their universe (their room).
Although they might advance in technology by creating crude tools they will never be smart enough to comprehend my existence because they're monkeys.
See a similarity? When you say where the Big Bang came from I could just ask where did that come from and it'll keep repeating until you get to the last thing which is the thing that has always been there and has no beginning. That entity is God. And perhaps God created the chain of events called the Big Bang, maybe he didn't, who's to say?
Science doesn't go against religion, it merely proves how the world works. If we were smart enough we'd be able to prove the existence of a God with science somehow but the thing is, we aren't. We're like the monkeys. Us trying to comprehend the existence of God is like a monkey trying to comprehend how the stock market works. We don't have the intellectual capacity to do so. -
Of course it can. What do you think the many religious scholars are here for? What is the purpose of the True Church then, if not to protect the faith from people who wish to change the Bible or create their own cults and call them Christianity?
Wat is the mechanism which it works ? They just study the bible faithfully and assuming every line to be true isn't it ? The bible is only as true as the stand of the committee meeting in the past during the compiling of the bible and the numerous interpretationsfrom one language to another. -
The number 0 in mathematics has a similar case. How did the concept of zero meaning nothingness come about? You could have as many circular arguments as you want, but you still can't truly explain how nothingness came about. We therefore say zero is an axiom.Originally posted by stupidissmart:U see, u r asking an unfair question. If I answer u the answer to where the big bang come from, lets say the "small squash", u will then ask where did the "small squash" come from. If I answer where does the "small squash" come from, u will ask where did tat phenomenon comes from again.
There is no ending to it. But for your answer, u just put a big black hole "god" into the picture and suck in all the questions and give out no answers. U just ignore the fact tat in the end, something have to be out from nothing
If everything need to be created, then god have to be created too. How is god created ? If there is something tat do not need to be created, (lets say god) then let tat something can be something simpler like the "big bang".
Similarly, God to the Christians is an axiom. There is no real need to explain why He came about, neither is there a pressing concern to describe how He came about. He just is, like nothing is nothing. Besides, asking the question "Who created God?" is irrelevant, because it implies a sense of time; that something had to come before God. That argument in itself is flawed, because if time had not been created then, how can something be said to be before God and create Him? We're talking about the beginning of time, remember? -
Science will never be able to prove
that God exists at all
Even they can shoot a rocket high in the space
and go round and round the space
they still cant find God one
Because God live in a realm tat no one can find de
Chrisitan believe in God
not because they saw God
but because they experience
his power , greatness and Love
Ok done
Feel free to Fire me with negative remarks -
Although they might advance in technology by creating crude tools they will never be smart enough to comprehend my existence because they're monkeys
U r not wrong, tat is a possible scenario. However it is all your assumption. Wat is the problem with assumption ? Everything can be wrong. And because of tat, it is not science nor fact, and shouldn't be believed.
I can also come out with another scenario as well. God is the monkey and he is created by another god who hides behind and leaving no trace to tis god. Tis god thought he is created out of nothing and he further create human etc. But in fact he is just another being in another realm formed by a greater being -
I can assure you Biblical definitions do not change overnight, unless you're talking about those fundamentalists we're all so very sick of (I'm especially impatient with them).Originally posted by stupidissmart:Wat is the mechanism which it works ? They just study the bible faithfully and assuming every line to be true isn't it ? The bible is only as true as the stand of the committee meeting in the past during the compiling of the bible and the numerous interpretationsfrom one language to another.
The Bible in itself is a guide as to how to read it. As 1 Thessalonians Chapter 5 Verses 21 and 22 say, "Test everything; retain what is good.Refrain from every kind of evil."
I do not deny the possibility of inaccuracy of the translation of the Bible from its original scripture to today's languages, but you place too much importance on that. Most of the translational inaccuracies are very minor ones; perhaps one of the more major ones is the correction of "Thou shalt not kill." to "Thou shalt not murder." Moreover, one must look at the context and time period it was written. -
Similarly, God to the Christians is an axiom. There is no real need to explain why He came about, neither is there a pressing concern to describe how He came about. He just is, like nothing is nothing. Besides, asking the question "Who created God?" is irrelevant, because it implies a sense of time; that something had to come before God. That argument in itself is flawed, because if time had not been created then, how can something be said to be before God and create Him? We're talking about the beginning of time, remember?
In the end, u just go one round and claim again tat god do not need to be created while the other things have to be. As said, if tat is the case then the universe do no need to be created, tat it is timeless and start with the beginning of time. U just need to attach all the unfavourable condition u set for god to be set on the universe as well. Then there is no need for god in tis model as well. If god cannot be created and tis question is meaningless, then universe is not created and tis question is equally meaningless. -
I can assure you Biblical definitions do not change overnight, unless you're talking about those fundamentalists we're all so very sick of (I'm especially impatient with them).
In tat case then unlike science, there is no mechanism to see if the bible can be wrong. U r already assuming the bible to be 100% correct. How do u come out with tis conclusion ?
The Bible in itself is a guide as to how to read it. As 1 Thessalonians Chapter 5 Verses 21 and 22 say, "Test everything; retain what is good.Refrain from every kind of evil."
I do not deny the possibility of inaccuracy of the translation of the Bible from its original scripture to today's languages, but you place too much importance on that. Most of the translational inaccuracies are very minor ones; perhaps one of the more major ones is the correction of "Thou shalt not kill." to "Thou shalt not murder." Moreover, one must look at the context and time period it was written. -
Well, if that's your way of seeing it, I've no problem with it. It's not like we're two mortal enemies battling over the fate of the universe anyway.Originally posted by stupidissmart:In the end, u just go one round and claim again tat god do not need to be created while the other things have to be. As said, if tat is the case then the universe do no need to be created, tat it is timeless and start with the beginning of time. U just need to attach all the unfavourable condition u set for god to be set on the universe as well. Then there is no need for god in tis model as well.
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Well, if that's your way of seeing it, I've no problem with it. It's not like we're two mortal enemies battling over the fate of the universe anyway
True. It is just tat u believe in assumptions while I am critical about assumptions. I believe in evidence -
bible got flaws a not
it is not easy to find out one
so when one come into reading the bible
should not just read it blindly
Must have Wisdom and Common sense too
to understand the scriptures too -
Are you baiting?Originally posted by stupidissmart:In tat case then unlike science, there is no mechanism to see if the bible can be wrong. U r already assuming the bible to be 100% correct. How do u come out with tis conclusion ?
I mean, you might not be, but it sure seems like it.
Anyway, how do we know? From the wisdom of past leaders who have canonized the Scriptures, and belief that the Bible is inspired by the Word of God, NOT the Word of God by itself. -
bible got flaws a not
So u mean u believe the part u like to believe and reject the part u like to reject ?
it is not easy to find out one
so when one come into reading the bible
should not just read it blindly
Must have Wisdom and Common sense too
to understand the scriptures too -
Anyway, how do we know? From the wisdom of past leaders who have canonized the Scriptures, and belief that the Bible is inspired by the Word of God, NOT the Word of God by itself.
So u r suggesting there r deviation in the bible from god's will ? -
How does one deviate from God's will if it is truly His will? I'm suggesting that people who proclaim the Bible is the True Word of God are mistaken, because the Bible is inspired by God, and God did not write the Bible. Humans did, and thus, there may be some influences from the writers. However, I do not doubt that it is currently the most accurate guide to knowing God and having a relationship with Him.Originally posted by stupidissmart:So u r suggesting there r deviation in the bible from god's will ? -
How does one deviate from God's will if it is truly His will? I'm suggesting that people who proclaim the Bible is the True Word of God are mistaken, because the Bible is inspired by God, and God did not write the Bible. Humans did, and thus, there may be some influences from the writers. However, I do not doubt that it is currently the most accurate guide to knowing God and having a relationship with Him.
Since human r the one writing it, compiled it and translate it, and human r error proned, then how can u know the bible is 100% consistent with god will ? In the end there is no mechanism to "correct" itself unlike science. -
It's a question of faith, ultimately, and apparently our faiths are not in the same place. Personally, I do a lot of questioning about things like God's will in my mind during my free time. There are a lot of questions I still have, and for some reason, my faith still stands. However, do bear in mind that does not mean I reject science per se.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Since human r the one writing it, compiled it and translate it, and human r error proned, then how can u know the bible is 100% consistent with god will ? In the end there is no mechanism to "correct" itself unlike science. -
It's a question of faith, ultimately, and apparently our faiths are not in the same place. Personally, I do a lot of questioning about things like God's will in my mind during my free time. There are a lot of questions I still have, and for some reason, my faith still stands. However, do bear in mind that does not mean I reject science per se.
If science fly in the face of your faith, such as the age of earth, which side will u choose ? -
It's not about choosing sides. I, for one, prefer a more logical approach in dealing with the creations of God (read: NOT God; to me He is an axiom). Taking Genesis literally is rather silly. I find that the seven days in Genesis were more of seven epochs. Evolution is also a valid theory. What's to say that God did not create proto-animals in Genesis and then through the Laws of the Universe set down by Him, evolution occurred over the years? You have to realize that in trusting that those scientific theories are accurate, it does not mean I have to discard my faith. To quote Palmer Joss from Carl Sagan's novel, Contact, "...it makes God very big." Similarly, I am in greater awe of the creations of God through the revelation of these things.Originally posted by stupidissmart:If science fly in the face of your faith, such as the age of earth, which side will u choose ? -
Well infact there are human errorOriginally posted by stupidissmart:Since human r the one writing it, compiled it and translate it, and human r error proned, then how can u know the bible is 100% consistent with god will ? In the end there is no mechanism to "correct" itself unlike science.
when come to writing books relating to bible
example is the death of Judas
some authors wrote he hang himself , then he fell
and his head hit onto a rock and thus up the lorry
or intestine split out and died
etc