what happens to non-christians after death
-
....but i am sure you are more than capable of doing your own research. therefore i believe all you want to for me to write something and you will jump into any loopholes, as per your normal style. So households in Singapore employ Filipino maids..... or slaves......??? I am very sure you can tell the difference.
Ahhh... but u have not answered my questions on the following
Do they have to obey god to every word ?
Do they have to go through torture if they do not obey ?
Do god have the right to take their lives if he want to ?
If u look at filipino servants,
1) They do not have to obey every word i say, such as having sex or killing others who r infidel
2) they do not have to experience torture from me. They can report to the police if we do tat
3) obviously we cannot kill them
But for slaves, u can do the above
I think putting the modern context to 5000 years ago is wrong. In fact I was wondering is there such a thing as servants and not slaves thenIn the context of a class, the teacher IS a person with a higher level of understanding of the Bible compared with people who ARE IN the class. A forum is not really a class per se. I am not here to compare whether I have a better understanding of the Bible to, say sillyme, or vince, or ben. Neither do I have the need to fight with you whether you or I are smarter. I can offer my opinions to those willing to listen. But from where you are coming from, anything that is written will end up being another fault finding session by you. I do not challenge your belief or your right to believe. It's your own life.
If u r a science teacher, i expect u to have a good foundation of science or a maths teacher to have a good foundation in maths. Nobody is asking whether r u the best of the best, but r u knowledgable enough.Whether I am qualified enough or not really isn't the issue. This is NOT counselling class. This is a Christian-themed forum, again I say, I (or anyone else) can offer their opinion, but if by offering any opinion, it turns into a flaming session, then there is really no point at all to continue further. No one will change anything other than raising one's blood pressure
Since tis is a christian themes forum, u should expect non believers to be in. Other christian forum also face tis issue. Furthermore the mood is amicable. I don't see flamingDo you, SIS, feel that your questions are answers, or that there is anyone out here capable (or qualified) of answering your questions? Obviously no. So that being the case, why not you consult a priest, or pastor, or father of any church of your choosing?
My questions r genuine questions. I expect people who think a lot into the religion to have come out with the answers for the questions. Why not consult it here ?Because by continuing here, you are either: implying that the Christians here are able to satisfy your need, or by continuing here, it will satisfying your goal to paint Christians into a corner
In fact, I expect the christians to come out with reasonble answers so I felt there is a reason why they believe in it. If they have a reasonable answer to it, they will not be pushed into a corner.So let me ask this question: for folks like yourself, why do you see the need to continue to question Christian doctrine? Sure, your answer will be that you don't see logic in such doctrine.... but shouldn't that be, you also won't see logic in buddhism or islam as well? You almost never enter these forums to pose your questions. Don't you admit that you still do have deep hatred towards Christians? If not, why bother?
To be truthful, I find lesser flaws with buddhism because they have a golden clause saying "if u think it is wrong, don't believe in it". I can find out 100 problems with their beliefs and they can just throw them out of the window with no problem at all. I do talk about muslim belief as well. The questions I ask in here can be applied to muslim as well be cause they r similar in many ways. -
Now, really, friend, that would be pushing it a bit too far. It's understandable that it would be difficult to try and talk people out of believing in what they believe Trust me, I've tried it. My Christian friends and I have had role-play conversations about what one would do and say to destroy our faith. It never works.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:I shall leave after this post because every time I come to ~EH~ I feel so frus. It is like I am talking to children (sorry no offense meant and I know you are encouraged to be child-like).
You talk to Christians and they are like little children, telling you "My father said it" "My mother said it" "My teacher said it" .... *sigh*
It's not that Christians don't question. In fact, I think those who are not in for the "Shortcut to salvation" and "Accept God and He'll let you meet hot girls" parts think a lot more. I won't say I think a lot more than the unkers here, but I do my best. "Why does this happen?", "Has God created the Laws of Nature as a means of governing all things in this Universe?", "Why has God given us free choice [read: NOT free will] even if it means it may cut down on His omnipotence?" are questions I tend to ponder daily. Rest assured, I haven't lose faith with the only temporary answers (somewhat like in Science) I have derived from then. -
up to you.... as i'd said before, you can choose to define things in anyway you want seeing that you only wish to define it at the disadvantage to Christian doctrines. If you wish to feel that believe in God is slavery, fine with me. There is not one single character in the Bible that is flawless, except for Jesus. Name me one character in the Bible that obeyed God 100%. God did not destroy Abraham, Isaac, Moses and David when they disobeyed Him. So are they slaves or servants?Originally posted by stupidissmart:But for slaves, u can do the above I think putting the modern context to 5000 years ago is wrong. In fact I was wondering is there such a thing as servants and not slaves then
bear in mind that my Sunday School students are primary and secondary school children.... so maybe you can tell me if i am knowledgeable enough for them.... also, the common denominator is the Bible, sharing with them on the Bible is sufficient enough. In your case, seeing that there is no common denominator and that you do not agree that the Bible is the Word of God, there is nothing that I can share with you that you may find helpful.Originally posted by stupidissmart:If u r a science teacher, i expect u to have a good foundation of science or a maths teacher to have a good foundation in maths. Nobody is asking whether r u the best of the best, but r u knowledgable enough.
No where did I say that I do not EXPECT non believers to be in. There are many good non believers, Ah Lau, Herzog and Ice are among those. Of course there is the occasional challenge and banter, but none of the name calling associated with, perhaps yourself (in the past) and some of those I rather not care to name. Therefore, one need to look into the intention of non believers who post in EH. I think you already know why you post, as much as you might deny the flaming part, your tone will inevitably lead towards that path.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Since tis is a christian themes forum, u should expect non believers to be in. Other christian forum also face tis issue. Furthermore the mood is amicable. I don't see flaming
On the assumption that they are really genuine questions, do you admit in pure conscience, that you intentions are truly good...??? If they are truly good, and I say that I am not interested, will you still walk away??? I think not.Originally posted by stupidissmart:My questions r genuine questions. I expect people who think a lot into the religion to have come out with the answers for the questions. Why not consult it here ?
Also, do you harbour any hopes that a bunch of non-scholars are able to answer these questions?
How many of such questions that you'd asked had been answered in the past?
Discounting the Bible, how many of these questions had Christians been able to prove?
Seeing that it is likely that there are no answers to these questions, why do you still continue to ask?
If you know that the folks here cannot answer your questions, why not seek your answers to those who can match your intellect?
I believe in the past, many reasonable answers were given. However, I do not think that you feel those answers to be reasonable. If you ask me why I believe in God, and my answer is I believe God is real because the universe had to be created by a supreme being.... is this reasonable enough to you? Of course not, you will then go a long discourse as to why there should be no creator etc etc.... so no end, and to you no reasonable answers.Originally posted by stupidissmart:In fact, I expect the christians to come out with reasonble answers so I felt there is a reason why they believe in it. If they have a reasonable answer to it, they will not be pushed into a corner.
Well, if you think that Christian is wrong, don't believe it....Originally posted by stupidissmart:To be truthful, I find lesser flaws with buddhism because they have a golden clause saying "if u think it is wrong, don't believe in it". I can find out 100 problems with their beliefs and they can just throw them out of the window with no problem at all. I do talk about muslim belief as well. The questions I ask in here can be applied to muslim as well be cause they r similar in many ways.
and for whatever questions you asked, I throw them out of the window.... reasonable enough?
I happen to believe that Christianity is right, so I believe it.... reasonable enough too?
Nonetheless, it does not take much to note that your posts in the other forums are minimal, if any. -
If you are unwilling, of course it makes you unhappy. Especially if you feel what you do is 'forced'. But if you enjoy what you are doing and are comfortable with it, is it slavery?
-
i believe this world is created by a supreme being too -
up to you.... as i'd said before, you can choose to define things in anyway you want seeing that you only wish to define it at the disadvantage to Christian doctrines. If you wish to feel that believe in God is slavery, fine with me. There is not one single character in the Bible that is flawless, except for Jesus. Name me one character in the Bible that obeyed God 100%. God did not destroy Abraham, Isaac, Moses and David when they disobeyed Him. So are they slaves or servants?
First I got to clarify my point tat I do not say tat believe in god is slavery, but god treat men as slaves. Furthermore, god did not destroy Abraham, Isaac etc even when they disobeyed him. However god did send non-believer to hell, set the rules in the OT, destroy sodom, kill the family of job, nearly wipe out the world in noah, kill the many tribes to clear the way for moses. So r they slaves or servants ?bear in mind that my Sunday School students are primary and secondary school children.... so maybe you can tell me if i am knowledgeable enough for them.... also, the common denominator is the Bible, sharing with them on the Bible is sufficient enough. In your case, seeing that there is no common denominator and that you do not agree that the Bible is the Word of God, there is nothing that I can share with you that you may find helpful.
Also, do you harbour any hopes that a bunch of non-scholars are able to answer these questions?
I am just wondering why your strategy is to say tat every christian in tis forum is not well versed in the bible
How many of such questions that you'd asked had been answered in the past?
Discounting the Bible, how many of these questions had Christians been able to prove?
Seeing that it is likely that there are no answers to these questions, why do you still continue to ask?
If you know that the folks here cannot answer your questions, why not seek your answers to those who can match your intellect? My opinion is, if an answer cannot be given or doubts cannot be cleared here, u can just conveniently push the reason to lack of knowledge.I believe in the past, many reasonable answers were given. However, I do not think that you feel those answers to be reasonable. If you ask me why I believe in God, and my answer is I believe God is real because the universe had to be created by a supreme being.... is this reasonable enough to you? Of course not, you will then go a long discourse as to why there should be no creator etc etc.... so no end, and to you no reasonable answers.
To be frank, u r right tat the answer is not reasonable to me because it is an assumption It is like the people in the past who think tat there r spirits in trees just because they do not understand it. I think the basis for the 2 beliefs stemmed from the same source, which is just assuming. Anyway I guess I will not ask more about it and just provide my viewpointWell, if you think that Christian is wrong, don't believe it.... and for whatever questions you asked, I throw them out of the window.... reasonable enough?
ok lor. Anyway I guess I have outlived my welcome here and I will dissappear again.
I happen to believe that Christianity is right, so I believe it.... reasonable enough too?If you are unwilling, of course it makes you unhappy. Especially if you feel what you do is 'forced'. But if you enjoy what you are doing and are comfortable with it, is it slavery?
Going back to the main topic, people who do not believe in god go to hell. Isn't tat forcing people to believe in god ? Furthermore, have u read about my 3 points on why the relationship between god and men r master-slave relationship ? -
If you don't believe in hell or heaven in the first place, then this concept of having to believe to avoid hell is irrelevant anyway.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Going back to the main topic, people who do not believe in god go to hell. Isn't tat forcing people to believe in god ?Furthermore, have u read about my 3 points on why the relationship between god and men r master-slave relationship ?
Yes, but I just choose not to go into detail. Anyway the points I wanted to bring up were simple. And not necessarily addressed to you only. -
...and I thank you for your genuine opinions.Originally posted by stupidissmart:ok lor. Anyway I guess I have outlived my welcome here and I will dissappear again. -
If you think that God treats humanity as slaves, please take it up with Him. But if you think god does not exist, that no issue what --- it's just a "Christian concept"Originally posted by stupidissmart:First I got to clarify my point tat I do not say tat believe in god is slavery, but god treat men as slaves. Furthermore, god did not destroy Abraham, Isaac etc even when they disobeyed him. However god did send non-believer to hell, set the rules in the OT, destroy sodom, kill the family of job, nearly wipe out the world in noah, kill the many tribes to clear the way for moses. So r they slaves or servants ?
Actually i don't know where you got the idea that I'd said that"tat every christian in tis forum is not well versed in the bible" I only said that I, CE cannot answer your questions because the common denominator is missing. The common denominator is whether the Bible is the word of God or not. I also said that through these few years, not many answers to your questions are considered correct or acceptable.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I am just wondering why your strategy is to say tat every christian in tis forum is not well versed in the bible My opinion is, if an answer cannot be given or doubts cannot be cleared here, u can just conveniently push the reason to lack of knowledge.
Sure.... because you'd never accept such an answer because your view is quite fixed.... myself? I don't really care about what the other people do, whether they worship trees, or they burn offerings on the 7th month.... it's their business and their belief, logical or illogical. These people have their rights to choose whatever belief they want. I will never ever condemn them as wrong.Originally posted by stupidissmart:To be frank, u r right tat the answer is not reasonable to me because it is an assumption It is like the people in the past who think tat there r spirits in trees just because they do not understand it. I think the basis for the 2 beliefs stemmed from the same source, which is just assuming. Anyway I guess I will not ask more about it and just provide my viewpoint
Actually in almost all beliefs, bad people to to hell..... so by saying that, are we also saying that we are setting standards of "morality" that if not followed, will doom the sinner to hell?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Going back to the main topic, people who do not believe in god go to hell. Isn't tat forcing people to believe in god ? Furthermore, have u read about my 3 points on why the relationship between god and men r master-slave relationship ?
You statement would only make sense if the concept of "God" is real. Meaning that the master/slave concept is true insomuch that there is a God.
If there is a God, then wouldn't it be stupid to question God's precepts?
If there isn't a God, whatever master/slave/sadist/masochist/overlord/insignificant fool relationship does not really exist. -
hey .. only Christianity preaches that hor .. the other two monotheistic faiths don't.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Going back to the main topic, people who do not believe in god go to hell. Isn't tat forcing people to believe in god ? Furthermore, have u read about my 3 points on why the relationship between god and men r master-slave relationship ? -
i think christianity is really essential in this world man. What would people do if they had no christianity to argue about
-
DunnoOriginally posted by gasband:i think christianity is really essential in this world man. What would people do if they had no christianity to argue about -
perhaps there wouldnt be argument at allOriginally posted by gasband:i think christianity is really essential in this world man. What would people do if they had no christianity to argue about
people would be more peace loving, stop screwing others around with their own intepretation of the scriptures -
i may not be absolutely right abt anything but trust me, if there are no christianity, people will still find something to argue about. These are the very nature of humans isnt it? The nature to prove others wrong. hurhurhurhurOriginally posted by laurence82:perhaps there wouldnt be argument at all
people would be more peace loving, stop screwing others around with their own intepretation of the scriptures -
i dont think soOriginally posted by gasband:i may not be absolutely right abt anything but trust me, if there are no christianity, people will still find something to argue about. These are the very nature of humans isnt it? The nature to prove others wrong. hurhurhurhur
the reason i am making that statement is wholly based on your statement of christianity and its existence, not on christianity and the world -
yeah maybe in your context, you are right. But looking beyond christianity, you will see that people will still have things to argue about. You can take all the existing arguments in these world and throw them out and soon the people will still find something else to argue about. My fren once said that, if you put a man in a room with a mirror for too long, he will start arguing with himself. Thats a bit exaggerating but i guess the common denominator in all arguments are clear, the ego of humans. I shall not go on liao, or else i would be 'arguing' with you liao hahahahaOriginally posted by laurence82:i dont think so
the reason i am making that statement is wholly based on your statement of christianity and its existence, not on christianity and the world -
does it matter really go to hell or not?
so one become christian because afraid of going to hell/.? -
some may, but my guess is many do not. I for sure didn't become a Christian because of fear of hell.Originally posted by noahnoah:does it matter really go to hell or not?
so one become christian because afraid of going to hell/.? -
It should be the negative.Originally posted by Chin Eng:some may, but my guess is many do not. I for sure didn't become a Christian because of fear of hell.
Many become Christians 'cos they want a sure ticket to heaven. -
So you become one because of?Originally posted by Chin Eng:some may, but my guess is many do not. I for sure didn't become a Christian because of fear of hell. -
purely because I believe there is a God.Originally posted by noahnoah:So you become one because of? -
Me too. But after some studying, I realize Christianity pales in comparison with Judaism and Islam.Originally posted by Chin Eng:purely because I believe there is a God.
For example, Christianity preaches that everyone, by default, is hopeless unless he/she has Christ's saving grace. It doesn't matter what you do, or whether you believe in a God or not. The only way is through Jesus.
On the other hand, Judaism and Islam teach that while everyone is fallen one way or another, none of us is hopeless. Everyone has the potential to fulfill the will of God .. it is whether you want to do it or not. -
Just wondering....
didnt read the middle posts and went straight here.
Christian believe that GOD decides where we are being born right?
So if i am an African, which GOD had decided that i am to be born there,
BUT unfortunately no one told me about GOD and being poor is all i know.
Then one fine day, I died not knowing who GOD is.
Am i going to hell?
Unfair?
-
O... i heard of one Equation, wonder if anyone knows it
GOD = Love = DO good out of Love coz you believe in love = you believe in GOD
its somewhere along this line... haha... -
when i small, some kid tell me 'If you are christian, you will go to heaven. If not, you will surely go hell one.'
and i gave him a bloody hard time after that.
whats with this infantile mentality(actually present in young and old!) anyway...