what happens to non-christians after death
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it's always been personal comments.... even when one rips verses from the Bible or quotes scientists.... it's still personal comments because none of us are truly theologians or scientists in the pure sense of the world....
I thought u teach in bible classes before ? Surely u r qualified to answer queries.
Furthermore, it do not need to take a theologian to answer basic questions or a real scientist to answer science questions. When u believe in something, at least for me, everything should make senseMaybe we may need to redefine what heaven is. I agree with how Dr. NT Wright describes heaven is. It is not a place a we go to after we die but it is a space which God controls.
U know your answer is not a conventional answer from the bible or the church. In tat case u believe when u die, u just die ? Then wat happened to non-believers ? Why do we seek to allow a being to come to our world to control us and make us slaves ?Unfortunately, the church has failed in this aspect at parts of history. And that is why it is confusing sometimes. If there is anyone to be blamed, it has to be us.
Tat is a risky belief to take, because
1) anything in it can be wrong
2) the whole belief is wrong and ignoring the confusing part is just to cover up its flaws -
I am unable give you any answers regarding life after death.Originally posted by stupidissmart:U know your answer is not a conventional answer from the bible or the church. In tat case u believe when u die, u just die ? Then wat happened to non-believers ? Why do we seek to allow a being to come to our world to control us and make us slaves ?
As to you your last question, from my experience, Christianity has not brought any form of "slavery" to me. On the contrary, it has brought many joys and positive changes in my life. -
And maybe an interesting prospective into unker sillyme's married life.Originally posted by sillyme:I am unable give you any answers regarding life after death.
As to you your last question, from my experience, Christianity has not brought any form of "slavery" to me. On the contrary, it has brought many joys and positive changes in my life.
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As to you your last question, from my experience, Christianity has not brought any form of "slavery" to me. On the contrary, it has brought many joys and positive changes in my life.
From the bible, god view and treat men as slaves. -
Getting married and staying married also need some "dying" toOriginally posted by Herzog_Zwei:And maybe an interesting prospective into unker sillyme's married life. 
but by no means a married life is burdensome 
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But from the accounts of Exodus, and the life of Jesus Christ, it does not appear so. (at least to me)Originally posted by stupidissmart:From the bible, god view and treat men as slaves. -
On what basis do you attribute it to "Christianity"?Originally posted by sillyme:I am unable give you any answers regarding life after death.
As to you your last question, from my experience, Christianity has not brought any form of "slavery" to me. On the contrary, it has brought many joys and positive changes in my life.
More importantly. on what basis do you attribute the "joys and positive changes in my life" to God/a god?
If you say, "you are right, it was not God/a god" or you say "You are wrong, it was God/a god"
There is no way to prove it. There is no way to say which statement is right. You just take it that the statement you prefer is right. How is that not delusional? How does it work for you? It is mind boggling to me that people can simply make a statement and then claim that they are right without giving valid reasons.
If you say, "How can I believe that there is such a thing as "electricity"?
I can give you an electrical shock. I can demonstrate the effect over and over again. -
So cheem questions.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:On what basis do you attribute it to "Christianity"?
More importantly. on what basis do you attribute the "joys and positive changes in my life" to God/a god?
If you say, "you are right, it was not God/a god" or you say "You are wrong, it was God/a god"
There is no way to prove it. There is no way to say which statement is right. You just take it that the statement you prefer is right. How is that not delusional? How does it work for you? It is mind boggling to me that people can simply make a statement and then claim that they are right without giving valid reasons.
If you say, "How can I believe that there is such a thing as "electricity"?
I can give you an electrical shock. I can demonstrate the effect over and over again.
To make it simple. I belief the Bible is the word of God. I read the Bible, and I apply the the teachings/commands in my life. It changed and is still changing my life. -
What did I say?Originally posted by sillyme:So cheem questions.
To make it simple. I belief the Bible is the word of God. I read the Bible, and I apply the the teachings/commands in my life. It changed and is still changing my life.
You just take it that the statement you prefer is right.
Don't you think you are behaving like a child?
If I may quote St Paul....
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a ... -
I shall leave after this post because every time I come to ~EH~ I feel so frus. It is like I am talking to children (sorry no offense meant and I know you are encouraged to be child-like).
You talk to Christians and they are like little children, telling you "My father said it" "My mother said it" "My teacher said it" .... *sigh* -
But from the accounts of Exodus, and the life of Jesus Christ, it does not appear so. (at least to me)
Why do u call god as "lord" then ? Why don't we ask Eng Chin whether do christian treat god as their master -
You are right, there is no way to prove it. Not that I know of.
I have not tried to prove anything in my statements. It is just a personal sharing of my experience and thoughts.
It's not an easily understood choice. Sometimes it's the experience from within that counts. -
From the Bible's perspective, God is the Creator. Yes, He calls us to be subjected under His authority.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Why do u call god as "lord" then ? Why don't we ask Eng Chin whether do christian treat god as their master
But I have never felt that He has treated us as slaves. I think slaves live a miserable life. Slaves are not called to have a relationship with the master. And for sure, masters don't die for their slaves (Christ died for us). Nor do they redeem them from slavery (God brought Israel out of Egypt from slavery).
That said, IF I am really a slave. I'd rather be slave to God rather than slave to the world. -
To TS:
Christian, non-christian, frogs and dinosaur are classifed under same group called living things. Go read your primary school science book.
Living things decompose and release nitrogen stuff upon death. That is all. Nothing extraordinary will happen when dead, no soul will fly out of the body; that only happens in movies and human imagination. -
Hehe. This is funny.Originally posted by january:To TS:
Christian, non-christian, frogs and dinosaur are classifed under same group called living things. Go read your primary school science book.
Living things decompose and release nitrogen stuff upon death. That is all. Nothing extraordinary will happen when dead, no soul will fly out of the body; that only happens in movies and human imagination.
But I agree with you. -
But I have never felt that He has treated us as slaves. I think slaves live a miserable life. Slaves are not called to have a relationship with the master. And for sure, masters don't die for their slaves (Christ died for us). Nor do they redeem them from slavery (God brought Israel out of Egypt from slavery).
Slaves do live miserable live because they cannot have control over their lives and have to obey everything. Tat is wat christian r doing to their god. And slave do have a relationship with their master. It is simply master-slave relationship. Just think about it. Obey his every wishes ? Disobedience result in torture for eternity ? Kill u to satisfy his curiosity, because he think u r unfit or to satisfy his ego (noah, job, tower of babel) ?
Christ do die but live back afterwards. Is tat consider death as human view it ? I think the most scary thing about death is tat there is no return. Otherwise the magnitude is the same as a painful surgery tat make u wake up 3 days later.
Brought people out of slavery to make them your slaves Tat do happen even in the human world. -
Well, if you are happy with your life now, that's good. I am also happy with mine alsoOriginally posted by stupidissmart:Slaves do live miserable live because they cannot have control over their lives and have to obey everything. Tat is wat christian r doing to their god. And slave do have a relationship with their master. It is simply master-slave relationship. Just think about it. Obey his every wishes ? Disobedience result in torture for eternity ? Kill u to satisfy his curiosity, because he think u r unfit or to satisfy his ego (noah, job, tower of babel) ?
Christ do die but live back afterwards. Is tat consider death as human view it ? I think the most scary thing about death is tat there is no return. Otherwise the magnitude is the same as a painful surgery tat make u wake up 3 days later.
Brought people out of slavery to make them your slaves Tat do happen even in the human world. 
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Originally posted by sillyme:So cheem questions.
To make it simple. I belief the Bible is the word of God. I read the Bible, and I apply the the teachings/commands in my life. It changed and is still changing my life.
I cannot see the difference between what I just said, and what you said in BWB.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:What did I say?
You just take it that the statement you prefer is right.
Don't you think you are behaving like a child?
If I may quote St Paul....
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a ...Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
to trust first and then find out for yourself the truth for yourself. -
You want to discuss "lord" ah?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Why do u call god as "lord" then ? Why don't we ask Eng Chin whether do christian treat god as their master
I can do a running commentary on the term as used in the Old Testament, starting with "The Lord said to my lord .." -
couldn't agree with you more.....Originally posted by sillyme:Well, if you are happy with your life now, that's good. I am also happy with mine also
folks like SIS wish to come in to be the saviour of Christians but no Christians asked to be saved.... again -
You may interpret that God view and treated men as slaves - but this is just an opinion.Originally posted by stupidissmart:From the bible, god view and treat men as slaves.Originally posted by sillyme:But from the accounts of Exodus, and the life of Jesus Christ, it does not appear so. (at least to me)
This question is not similar to the first one. God treating men as slaves and Christians treating God as their master are not the same thing.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Why do u call god as "lord" then ? Why don't we ask Eng Chin whether do christian treat god as their master
Christians are to be servants of God, not slaves.
Servants/Slaves two entirely different concept. -
Like what I tell my students, I can give you my opinion.... as a matter of fact, because of the different level of understanding of Sunday School teachers, we can only offer our understanding of scripture.... you need to note that Sunday School teachers are NOT Bible scholars.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I thought u teach in bible classes before ? Surely u r qualified to answer queries.
Sure everyone can answer science questions.... but would you agree that there are varying level of difficulty in such science questions? If your science questions is on the respiration system or the circulatory system, my P5 son can answer you too. However when we attempt to answer questions like the origin of the universe, wouldn't you agree that this is a shade different from a P5 science book?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Furthermore, it do not need to take a theologian to answer basic questions or a real scientist to answer science questions. When u believe in something, at least for me, everything should make sense
Sure, when I believe in something, everything should make sense.... to me.
It is no different from you believing in something, which make sense to you.
Nonetheless because we are two very different people, at least give each other the leeway to believe in different things. -
Well, if you are happy with your life now, that's good. I am also happy with mine also
Ok. I won't do potshot at itYou want to discuss "lord" ah?
I want to discuss whether does god expect us to be slave to himChristians are to be servants of God, not slaves.
Wat r the difference between the 2 other than the spelling ? Do they have to obey god to every word ? Do they have to go through torture if they do not obey ? Do god have the right to take their lives if he want to ?
Servants/Slaves two entirely different concept.
If u say true to the above 3 questions, then u r just trying to colour the words to make it seems nicerLike what I tell my students, I can give you my opinion.... as a matter of fact, because of the different level of understanding of Sunday School teachers, we can only offer our understanding of scripture.... you need to note that Sunday School teachers are NOT Bible scholars
People who do bible studies class generally have studied the bible and have a higher level of understanding of the bible compared with people who do not do such studies. Wat is more a teacher for the class. Otherwise wat is the use of such classes ?Sure everyone can answer science questions.... but would you agree that there are varying level of difficulty in such science questions? If your science questions is on the respiration system or the circulatory system, my P5 son can answer you too. However when we attempt to answer questions like the origin of the universe, wouldn't you agree that this is a shade different from a P5 science book?
How come u r giving me the feeling tat u just want to void all the answers made by all the christians in the forum ? If u think u r not qualified enough, then why don't u raise the question to a priest or a father and ask them for their reply and post it here. If they r not qualified then I have really big doubts why they r religious leaders -
SlaveOriginally posted by stupidissmart:Wat r the difference between the 2 other than the spelling ? Do they have to obey god to every word ? Do they have to go through torture if they do not obey ? Do god have the right to take their lives if he want to ?
If u say true to the above 3 questions, then u r just trying to colour the words to make it seems nicer
Slavery is a social-economic system under which certain persons — known as slaves — are deprived of personal freedom and compelled to perform labour or services. The term also refers to the status or condition of those persons who are treated as the property of another person or household. This is referred to as "chattel slavery".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave
Servant
A domestic worker, domestic, or servant is one who works, and often also lives, within the employer's household. Servants are distinguishable from serfs or slaves in that they are compensated, that is, they must receive payment (and, following labour reforms in the 20th Century, benefits) for their work. They are also free to leave their employment at any time, although socio-economic conditions and laws relating to working in a foreign country may make that difficult.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant
....but i am sure you are more than capable of doing your own research. therefore i believe all you want to for me to write something and you will jump into any loopholes, as per your normal style. So households in Singapore employ Filipino maids..... or slaves......??? I am very sure you can tell the difference.
There are many references in the Bible pertaining to the servanthood of the followers of God, if you can find any references in the Bible that talks about followers of God being slaves, please show.
In the context of a class, the teacher IS a person with a higher level of understanding of the Bible compared with people who ARE IN the class. A forum is not really a class per se. I am not here to compare whether I have a better understanding of the Bible to, say sillyme, or vince, or ben. Neither do I have the need to fight with you whether you or I are smarter. I can offer my opinions to those willing to listen. But from where you are coming from, anything that is written will end up being another fault finding session by you. I do not challenge your belief or your right to believe. It's your own life.Originally posted by stupidissmart:People who do bible studies class generally have studied the bible and have a higher level of understanding of the bible compared with people who do not do such studies. Wat is more a teacher for the class. Otherwise wat is the use of such classes ?
Whether I am qualified enough or not really isn't the issue. This is NOT counselling class. This is a Christian-themed forum, again I say, I (or anyone else) can offer their opinion, but if by offering any opinion, it turns into a flaming session, then there is really no point at all to continue further. No one will change anything other than raising one's blood pressure.Originally posted by stupidissmart:How come u r giving me the feeling tat u just want to void all the answers made by all the christians in the forum ? If u think u r not qualified enough, then why don't u raise the question to a priest or a father and ask them for their reply and post it here. If they r not qualified then I have really big doubts why they r religious leaders
In the first place, I don't usually have QUESTIONS to ask, so I don't need to consult any priest, pastors or fathers. People ask question, I can share my opinion, like any chit chat session.... so can you.... but again, if it's going to all end up with statements like "Tat's stupid" or "you're a bigot" or "you are delusional" then the dialogue will have ceased to be meaningful or edifying.
Truth of the matter is: whatever "qualifications" we may have matters to nothing in this forum. Even if I say that I am a Bible scholar or I have a doctorate in religious studies (which I am not), you are not going to let up are you? What you need, I believe, is not what Christians want to say, but for people to agree with you, isn't it.....
ADDITIONAL POINTS - Do you, SIS, feel that your questions are answers, or that there is anyone out here capable (or qualified) of answering your questions? Obviously no. So that being the case, why not you consult a priest, or pastor, or father of any church of your choosing?
Because by continuing here, you are either: implying that the Christians here are able to satisfy your need, or by continuing here, it will satisfying your goal to paint Christians into a corner.
So to you specifically, you truly want answers? Go see a a pastor.... No one individual here can give you the answer that you want.
So let me ask this question: for folks like yourself, why do you see the need to continue to question Christian doctrine? Sure, your answer will be that you don't see logic in such doctrine.... but shouldn't that be, you also won't see logic in buddhism or islam as well? You almost never enter these forums to pose your questions. Don't you admit that you still do have deep hatred towards Christians? If not, why bother? -
.....but we are totally going OOT liao.