what happens to non-christians after death
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that's ok, it's for a GoodCause!Originally posted by dumbdumb!:haha if u're going to keep fussing about goodearth, u're gonna start losing ur hair la
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Good Luck!Originally posted by Chin Eng:that's ok, it's for a GoodCause!
(that prat has crossed the line) -
pssh.
It doesn't matter whether you're a Christian or not. When you die, you die. Nothing else will happen. -
yup yupOriginally posted by Icemoon:Of course!
Since when there is scientific evidence of heaven?!
Bible also don't dare to proclaim that.
20mins to spare......... before the next conf call... come here key siao a bit
thinks to consider from scientific POV
there is never sunrise nor sunset
its the earth that is revolving
Its impossible to keep still in one position/place (as long as you are on Earth)
this place we are standing/sitting/whatever on is rotating and zooming
across space
There is no prove that this planet (if its a planet at all) is actually called Earth
its just a name someone decided put on it, someone else may have
named it differently.
Siam Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh -
Need to come to a conclusion? I think that is probably the very essence of being narrow-minded. No offence. I can go onto my deathbed knowing that there is a probabilty of having other intelligent lifeforms, namely aliens, in this universe, even though there may be no evidence uncovered thus far. I don't have a need to make a conclusion if none can be madeOriginally posted by Chin Eng:I have no issue about having open and questioning minds.... at the end of the day, at one point in our lives, this open and questioning mind need to come to a conclusion one way or another.
Having "an open mind" is really an interesting concept - does it mean that we will continue incessant NOT to have a decision?
About being objective... can we truly be objective (from the scientific standpoints) or we are being objective with a hint of being subjective? Aren't our objectiveness usually influenced by some form of subjective opinion based on what we experienced?
Reality is, I think most Christians here have no issue about people not believing in God. Believe (or not believe) whatever you want. No one can prove beyond the shadow of doubt one way or another. So we've always propose to agree to disagree.....
Nonetheless, we'd have folks like TheGoodEarth coming in calling everybody names and continue to repeat like a broken record over what he believe....
We believe in the Bible, Muslims in the Koran, and perhaps many atheists believe in Carl Sagan.... Science is a wonderful thing.... we learn lots from it.... but we also learn that it is not the end.
Science and logic, at the end of the day, is still inconclusive over how the universe had happened. It can only postulate theories.....
Having an open mind and making decisions are two completely different issues. In order to have an open mind, you need to discern what is real and what is not. It is not being able to come to premature conclusions. Of course you can make a decision regarding whether to believe or to be a christian, but it doesn't mean that you cannot continue questioning its validity.
Your analogy of a person going up the mountain looking for elephants sounds as if you know everything and that they are the truth, which is typical of christians. Some people are saddled with questions that are left unanswered? So, I guess christians already have all the answers. Or is it that they think they have all the answers? Beliefs are just beliefs, by the way
If there are many claims to the existence of a monster in Loch Ness, but there being few evidence, do you need to come to a conclusion? If you do, is it necessarily that the Loch Ness monster exists? If you don't, then what kind of logic are you using and why is it different from your application to religion?
It's true, science and logic are inconclusive on how the universe began. But it doesn't mean that it will forever be unsolved. In the future, there may be advances or new discoveries in science that may bring a conclusion. I guess because science cannot give you a quick solution to the question, you'd rather believe blindly in a dubious solution just to give yourself a peace of mind?
I am strictly giving my opinion here, but I think many christians take up the religion just to relief themselves of the fear of the unknown and to bring some closure to various issues that they cannot comprehend. -
To put it nicely, credo consolans.Originally posted by kecang_puteh:I am strictly giving my opinion here, but I think many christians take up the religion just to relief themselves of the fear of the unknown and to bring some closure to various issues that they cannot comprehend. -
hmm, tell you what.
my aunt's being diagnose with cancer, she refused chemo, so if she gets healed, it would prove that God's real (to you). how about it? -
actually i think you might be stereotyping a little when you say that Christians DO NOT QUESTION. i can safely say that many of the regulars in EH that are Christians question a lot about our church and our doctrine. also there are not many Christians who become Christians because of the fear of death or the unknown - this is also a stereotyped view.Originally posted by kecang_puteh:Need to come to a conclusion? I think that is probably the very essence of being narrow-minded. No offence. I can go onto my deathbed knowing that there is a probabilty of having other intelligent lifeforms, namely aliens, in this universe, even though there may be no evidence uncovered thus far. I don't have a need to make a conclusion if none can be made
.....
I am strictly giving my opinion here, but I think many christians take up the religion just to relief themselves of the fear of the unknown and to bring some closure to various issues that they cannot comprehend.
i for one do not ever take the church teachings and traditions as the finality. i also did not become a Christian because i fear death. as far as i am concern, if i die and there is a god, i let god do whatever he wants with me. by then it does not matter anymore. however if i die and there is no god, again it also does not matter anymore.
for starters, i don't even like to use the Bible to prove Christianity - it is a futile and illogical way to attempt to prove itself by having internal evidence.
taking Christianity away for this discussion, i think the most fundamental of all concepts relating to religion for the individual is perhaps: is there a supreme and omnipotent being?
if you do not believe that there is so - fine so be it.... no issue.
if you do believe that there is a supreme being than that will continue to shape your believe as to who this supreme being is.
i really have no issue with you giving your opinions, at least you attempt to be polite. however i sincerely hope that you do not stereotype so much about christians and how we think and rationalise.
i think there are christians that have open mind, but having an open mind will still lead to decisions.... eg, if you're a guy, would you put on a skirt? considering that objectively, a skirt is also a piece of attire. who's to say only girls should wear skirt.....and having an open mind should lead you to a conclusion that a skirt will cover your privates as much as a pair of jeans. (probably a bad example, but you'd probably know where i am coming from)
one more thing... the example of the elephant and the mountain... it's an inside joke, in case you do not realise.... if you wish to know more about the elephant and the mountain, please PM me. The other members know what i am talking about. -
hahaha, you are still lying thru your teeth and in your dreams! before, you gave me different reasons to close my threads. now you me more of your bigotry - emotional tirades, useless comments, and the blah blah.Originally posted by Chin Eng:yup there goes the big goat.
the scenario is this: you enter a themed forum and post crap, as the moderator, I have the right to close your threads. you don't have to like it, i am just doing my job. at the end of the day, you still quite boey song hor?
also, your posts are nothing more than emotional tirades, pointless comments.... as i'd said before, no one single individual (atheists included) have had their posts closed so many times....
as i'd said, you're special to me.... maybe you'd dream about me tonight too.
The truth is this: you can't stand my pointing out your bigotry. -
have i ever protested that you called me a bigot? call whatever you want lah... i've been called worst names than that....Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:hahaha, you are still lying thru your teeth and in your dreams! before, you gave me different reasons to close my threads. now you me more of your bigotry - emotional tirades, useless comments, and the blah blah.
The truth is this: you can't stand my pointing out your bigotry.
a name is just a name lah, you know, sticks and stones....
you can point all you want, but you need others to agree with you otherwise you are no different from the siao dingdong at the street corner lah.
call me liar for all you want lah... again you need the peeps to agree with you lah.
after so long still pissed about me closing your thread??? go get a life lah you sad sad soul. -
When can we ever have a topic where it doesn't degenerate into name-calling? I doubt it very much, especially when it's the others that start it first.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:hahaha, you are still lying thru your teeth and in your dreams! before, you gave me different reasons to close my threads. now you me more of your bigotry - emotional tirades, useless comments, and the blah blah.
The truth is this: you can't stand my pointing out your bigotry. -
Originally posted by Chin Eng:have i ever protested that you called me a bigot? call whatever you want lah... i've been called worst names than that.... a name is just a name lah, you know, sticks and stones....
You are still lying thru your teeth!
after so long still pissed about me closing your thread??? go get a life lah you sad sad soul.
hahaha, an inflated balloon has more life than you. But it will piss you to know that you are a bigot true and thru. -
Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:You are still lying thru your teeth!
aside from name calling, do you have any other relevant information to add???Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:hahaha, an inflated balloon has more life than you. But it will piss you to know that you are a bigot true and thru.
probably not. seeing that the elephant and the mountain is still within you.
your opinion of me is totally insubstantial to myself, or everyone else here. -
no much time man... just a few lines
Since there is no scientific evidence of heaven or hell or a large bulk of the stories in the bible, then why does god made them so elusive and secretive ? Wat is he trying to test/do ? He cannot blame men for choosing the wrong religion because none has more credibility over the others. Then why punish them even when they try their best but still make a wrong choice ? -
You have put 2 and 2 together and used a lot of common sense. What you have been told don't make sense but a lot of believers continue to believe (blindly) what the bible said or christians have been told - the test, hell, heaven, etc.Originally posted by stupidissmart:no much time man... just a few lines
Since there is no scientific evidence of heaven or hell or a large bulk of the stories in the bible, then why does god made them so elusive and secretive ? Wat is he trying to test/do ? He cannot blame men for choosing the wrong religion because none has more credibility over the others. Then why punish them even when they try their best but still make a wrong choice ?
When no credible answer can be given, you are told not to question but to have faith, you are told that the answer will come one day, you are told - god's has a plan beyond your comprehension, and those in the cloisters of churches and the vatican will remain elusive and secretive.
Do you know how much the Vatican has in its Treasury??? -
wahah .. TGE and SIS tag team?
woe to the Christians! -
not really lah... should be fun, until their egos get in their way.Originally posted by Icemoon:wahah .. TGE and SIS tag team?
woe to the Christians! -
aside from smiling, do you have any other relevant information to add???Originally posted by Chin Eng:not really lah... should be fun, until their egos get in their way.
probably not. seeing that the bigot is still within you.
your opinion of me is totally unsubstantiable, or everyone else here too until you lock the thread. -
you not scared fighting the battle alone ah?Originally posted by Chin Eng:not really lah... should be fun, until their egos get in their way.
maybe not .. you have two other unkers with you. -
who are SO VERY ACTIVEOriginally posted by Icemoon:you not scared fighting the battle alone ah?
maybe not .. you have two other unkers with you. -
this place a farce, man
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really man... in the end it just become personal comments
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must live with it i guessOriginally posted by stupidissmart:really man... in the end it just become personal comments -
it's always been personal comments.... even when one rips verses from the Bible or quotes scientists.... it's still personal comments because none of us are truly theologians or scientists in the pure sense of the world....Originally posted by stupidissmart:really man... in the end it just become personal comments -
Long time since you've post.Originally posted by stupidissmart:no much time man... just a few lines
Since there is no scientific evidence of heaven or hell or a large bulk of the stories in the bible, then why does god made them so elusive and secretive ? Wat is he trying to test/do ? He cannot blame men for choosing the wrong religion because none has more credibility over the others. Then why punish them even when they try their best but still make a wrong choice ?
Maybe we may need to redefine what heaven is. I agree with how Dr. NT Wright describes heaven is. It is not a place a we go to after we die but it is a space which God controls.
Jesus taught in the Lord's prayer that we are pray for God's Kingdom to come and to do God's will on earth as it is in heaven. Essentially we are called to bring heaven to earth, and not to sit around and do nothing. As Christians, this is the work we need to do: to bring a renewal by the Spirit to this world.
Unfortunately, the church has failed in this aspect at parts of history. And that is why it is confusing sometimes. If there is anyone to be blamed, it has to be us.
To read in detail what Dr. NT Wright says about this, please read.
http://www.ntwrightpage.com/sermons/Earth_Heaven.htm