Some mega churches affect students adversely
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Please do not disobey your parents as they have some religious reasons for not allowing you to go to church and get baptised.And also, do not go to mission trips unless your parents allow.
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for me it worked out fine. technically because i dared to do what i felt was right, and they found out more about christianity and understood my decisions, that's why they're christians now.
but mine is a unique case la, ultimately, God's the one in control -
Funny. That seems to be what my dad is saying about my school life!Originally posted by dumbdumb!:he complained that i leave the house early in the morning, and come back very late at night.
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You cannot do this without compromising on your Faith. To be blunt, I answer to God before I do my parents. Simple as that.Originally posted by assfer:Please do not disobey your parents as they have some religious reasons for not allowing you to go to church and get baptised.And also, do not go to mission trips unless your parents allow.
But the choice does not have to be so stark. Of course, the thing to so is to try and reach an amicable understanding. But that's often easier said than done. -
Having come from a mega church myself, I had also been drawn into all the activities and meetings. Initiallly, it felt as if it was the right thing to do, especially when the church leaders are preaching about honoring God 100% with our time & moneyÂ… their favorite line of teaching goes something like this: if you honor God first (with your time, money, etc.), God will also honor you back by multiplying your time, money, etcÂ…
I now realise that that is a really dangerous teaching, cos it misleads people, esp. youngsters, to think that they are doing the right thing by sacrificing all their time and energy to be involved in church-related activities all the time! Some youths were overheard talking about skipping school to attend the churchÂ’s mega youth conference this year (2007)! That is so unwise!
There is a time & season for everything. When you are a student, your first duty is to honor God by doing well in your studies. As a child of your parents, your duty is also to honor God by honoring your parents, i.e. you need to spend more quality time with them and take care of them. Do the right things first. That is wisdom and common sense.
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edited by CE, just for fun, afterall I am already a bigot.
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Wrong, all religions demands to be believed even if it's not true, hence even if it advocates no self makes no sense. Buddhism has advocated violence as a last resort hence 2 lefts don't make 1 right.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:The situation mentioned in the article is not new. The problems mentioned by Dr Lee are also not new. The postings made about church activities, parents, zealousness, etc., are also not new.
Why? because the same stupid things happen over and over again because we simply are not learning from the past but merely repeating the past. There will always be another sucker born, and the same old situations get repeated. It is a cycle. Now, that's why I believed in CYCLE. Plus a funny thing about eternity. The problems will be with us for eternity!. Mega churches are about EGO, not god. You will be damn silly to believe that everything the church does is for god! The Christians go to war with one another for god, the Muslims do everything for allah. Use your common sense - god doesn't need humans to do his work!!! We can't even solve our own problems ... who are we kidding that we can do god's work????
Believing blindly is the ROOT of all problems arising out of religious faith. To rely and believe every word written in the holy books (whatever religion it maybe) is just plain unthinking.
Does any god (believer claims his or her own one and only god) need humans to honour, obey, worship, love, praise? If that is the case, that god is no different from human! So you see, Man created God - in exactly the same way that humans want others to honour, obey, respect, praise, love them. It is all about EGO. That's why the religion that advocates no self makes a lot of sense!!! -
edited by CE, just for fun, afterall I am already a bigot.
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Originally posted by SturmDerSchatten:
heh heh, i so understand dude,
Funny. That seems to be what [b]my dad is saying about my school life! [/b]
^5!
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History is also on my side when I state that Buddhism did allow for violence to be conducted as an act of last resort when all other considerations has failed.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:Two misconceived points you raised:
1) Religion demands to be believed - I think it is the other way round. But then again, what is your definition of religion?
2) Buddhism has advocated violence - this is your assessment as much as you should also assess the other religions pari pasu. While religion has never been separated from violence and vice versa, whether it is advocated explicity is another issue altogether. History is on my side if I were to say that Buddhism has not gone to war with another per se. I am not saying Buddhists are all holy as much as Christians are not all holy or for that matter Muslims. Unlike you I am inclined to believe that no right-path religion advocates violence the way you put it. There will always be deviants who use religion for their own purposes. This is what you must distinguish. Like I said - Christians are bigot - I never said Chrisianity is!
You will do well if you can comment on this:
"Use your common sense - god doesn't need humans to do his work!!! We can't even solve our own problems ... who are we kidding that we can do god's work????
Believing blindly is the ROOT of all problems arising out of religious faith. To rely and believe every word written in the holy books (whatever religion it maybe) is just plain unthinking.
Does any god (believer claims his or her own one and only god) need humans to honour, obey, worship, love, praise? If that is the case, that god is no different from human! So you see, Man created God - in exactly the same way that humans want others to honour, obey, respect, praise, love them. It is all about EGO."
The rise of Ming dynasty and the downfall of the Yuan dynasty also had Buddhists monks from several temples joining the armed insurrection. The Mongolian dynasty was expending too fast and the people was taxed constantly to support the wars.
Buddha had also killed after his enlighthenment under the Boddhi tree but as an act of last resort to prevent a robber from killing others.
To answer your first question,a religion is a set of common beliefs and practices generally held by a group of people, often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law.
I believe that all religions are wrong, simple as that. I am an aethist as well as a irreligionist.
Last question you posed to me is irrelevant due to my second statement. (Which organised religion doesn't have ego?) -
I have gone to church of our savior at queenstown( near queenstown mrt). Inside the church, I noticed a sign said ' Silence Please'.In the gospel bus, I noticed a sign said ' Silence Please'.
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edited by CE, just for fun, afterall I am already a bigot.
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*thumbs upOriginally posted by TheGoodEarth:The situation mentioned in the article is not new. The problems mentioned by Dr Lee are also not new. The postings made about church activities, parents, zealousness, etc., are also not new.
Why? because the same stupid things happen over and over again because we simply are not learning from the past but merely repeating the past. There will always be another sucker born, and the same old situations get repeated. It is a cycle. Now, that's why I believed in CYCLE. Plus a funny thing about eternity. The problems will be with us for eternity!. Mega churches are about EGO, not god. You will be damn silly to believe that everything the church does is for god! The Christians go to war with one another for god, the Muslims do everything for allah. Use your common sense - god doesn't need humans to do his work!!! We can't even solve our own problems ... who are we kidding that we can do god's work????
Believing blindly is the ROOT of all problems arising out of religious faith. To rely and believe every word written in the holy books (whatever religion it maybe) is just plain unthinking.
Does any god (believer claims his or her own one and only god) need humans to honour, obey, worship, love, praise? If that is the case, that god is no different from human! So you see, Man created God - in exactly the same way that humans want others to honour, obey, respect, praise, love them. It is all about EGO. That's why the religion that advocates no self makes a lot of sense!!! -
actually the joke is - everyone's a bigot.... including you....TGE, why else would you continue to PUSH your belief.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:Like I said - Christians are bigot
definition of a bigot:
A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own. -
Ok .. let me steer everyone back to the topic.
Sep 21, 2007
I have problems with the statements in red.
Churches don't seek to sow discord in families
IT WAS with deep regret that I read the lamentation of Dr Lee Bee Wah, 'Some mega churches affect students adversely' (ST, Sept 19).
I am a final-year university student attending what is presumably one of the 'rich' mega churches Dr Lee alluded to. While I sympathise with her feelings of 'losing' her loved ones, I find some of the assumptions and generalisations she made unfair. Firstly, while mega churches in Singapore are active in sharing their faith with the public, they do not target impressionable teenage schoolchildren. As with any religion, it is natural that as Christians we desire to share the joy of our faith with our friends and loved ones.
We are fortunate to live in a multiracial country where people are free to practise any religion. As religious tolerance is a value we guard strongly, it is saddening that Dr Lee should imply that the indiscretions of her children can be attributed directly to negative influence by the church.
While church activities do take up time, as a cell-group leader I can vouch that never has the church sought to sow discord in families or influence teenagers to rebel against their parents.
Like any other religion which seeks to inculcate good values and strong family ties, the Bible teaches Christians to honour and love their parents in obedience.
Some young Christians may get carried away by overzealousness, and churches need to step in to correct them. However, it is unfair to blame our family troubles solely on churches.
While speaking in general about the Christian faith to clarify certain misconceptions, I acknowledge that there will inevitably be deviants who may preach fanaticism.
I beseech Dr Lee to clarify matters with her children's church pastor.
Teo Choon Liang
1. What does he mean by "not targeting impressionable teenage schoolchildren"?
2. I realize many of the pro-Christian letters in the forum tend to talk about the obvious; they just defend the church and the leaders but seldom go into the problem. At most they will blame the problem on some deviants who preach fanaticism.
It is inaccurate to paint the troublemakers as fanatic deviants because such a description, no doubt, conjures up an image of terrorists from another [peaceful] religion. However while we can name a few fanatic deviants from the group of terrorists, we are hard-pressed to name any deviant from the Christian faith.
It is amazing the author can bring up religious tolerance, when Christians are mostly the ones who are tearing up the fabric of religious tolerance locally. -
Sep 24, 2007
This letter is better, probably because the author does not attend one of the mega churches, whereas the author of the previous letter attends one of the mega churches. Conclusion - maybe people from one of the mega churches tend to write lousy, unconvincing letters.
Mega-churches aim to motivate students, not distract them
I read with interest Dr Lee Bee Wah's concerns in 'Some mega-churches affect students adversely' (ST Forum page, Sept 19).
I do not think that you can attribute drastic changes in behaviour to joining a church. Personal experience cannot form the basis of jumping to such a general conclusion.
One mega-church, City Harvest Church (which I do not attend), emphasises academic excellence by putting the academic results of its student members on their website and recommending a minimum number of hours to study each day.
A quick glance shows that the church members' results are regularly on par with, or above, the national average.
The changes in behaviour that Dr Lee complains about correlate more to adolescence and puberty than religion.
There is a natural tendency for all teenagers find their own identity and gain independence. They also need to find acceptance within their own peer groups. The question then is, which type of peer group is best?
I have heard a parent relating how his son became a gangster and how he regretted not allowing him to go to church, given how differently he probably would have turned out.
There have been many cases of delinquent and rebellious children who have been changed by an atmosphere of love and acceptance in a church.
I personally benefited by having peers and mentors in church who set an example of leadership and excellence in love and life.
I wonder how much more rebellious I would have become if I had not become a Christian.
I learned to be patient, self-controlled, more loving and even to memorise and think more logically using Bible study methods.
What I suggest to Dr Lee is to recognise that children do grow up and need to find their own wings, and speak to the pastoral staff of the church if you have any concerns.
It should be noted that in the Bible, the fifth Commandment is 'Honour your father and mother'.
Nicodemus Chan
However, some questions (parts in red).
1. Is it easy to speak to the pastoral staff of the church? I mean is there such an avenue that is made known to the public?
2. Every Christian likes to quote the fifth commandment, but seldom do they discuss the real problem and highlight the real fact - God is to be placed before your family. How are believers to handle such a conflict? -
My gut feel is - yes one can always request a meeting. However my gut feel is that the responsibility of every individual's action will be - passed to the INDIVIDUAL. Hence the conclusion for such meeting will be - each teenager is to be accountable to his own time and involvement. If they over commit it's their own fault.Originally posted by Icemoon:1. Is it easy to speak to the pastoral staff of the church? I mean is there such an avenue that is made known to the public?
My stand is that this commandment highlights the importance of the family structure. While I attempt to facilitate my boys into the church activities, I also emphasize that the family is where the core structure is.Originally posted by Icemoon:2. Every Christian likes to quote the fifth commandment, but seldom do they discuss the real problem and highlight the real fact - God is to be placed before your family. How are believers to handle such a conflict? -
Not fair! You won't get to face the problems many families face 'cos your whole family is Christian.Originally posted by Chin Eng:My stand is that this commandment highlights the importance of the family structure. While I attempt to facilitate my boys into the church activities, I also emphasize that the family is where the core structure is.
Your family is not even split along Protestant-Catholic lines. -
Most churches are listed in the Yellow Pages. Or just make a trip to the church, the pastoral staff office is usually there.Originally posted by Icemoon:1. Is it easy to speak to the pastoral staff of the church? I mean is there such an avenue that is made known to the public? -
My parents are not Christians, and yes, I faced such issues when I was growing up.Originally posted by Icemoon:Not fair! You won't get to face the problems many families face 'cos your whole family is Christian.
Your family is not even split along Protestant-Catholic lines.
Actually this kind of issues has to be pre-empted. I don't believe that Christian families DO NOT face such issues. The reason is the level of commitment each member of the family has to the church. Even Christian parents worry about their children's school results.
Recently, I told my older son (who's in the youth group) to share me any "revelations" or "visions" before telling his peers about it..... -
Originally posted by Chin Eng:Recently, I told my older son (who's in the youth group) to share me any "revelations" or "visions" before telling his peers about it.....
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whyOriginally posted by Icemoon: 
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
hahahah, now you found out the definition. But you are wrong about TGE. If you think everyone is a bigot including TGE - that's OK, even with TGE because that will make you happy and less of a bigot, right? Well, no problem with me if you are happy. I want you to be happy, but you are still a bigot.
actually the joke is - everyone's a bigot.... including you....TGE, why else would you continue to PUSH your belief.
[b]definition of a bigot:
A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own. [/b] -
God revealed Himself to your son?Originally posted by Chin Eng:why -
How do you tell if someone is a bigot?Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:hahahah, now you found out the definition. But you are wrong about TGE. If you think everyone is a bigot including TGE - that's OK, even with TGE because that will make you happy and less of a bigot, right? Well, no problem with me if you are happy. I want you to be happy, but you are still a bigot.
a)Does not understand simple logic.
b)Tendency to generalise.
c)Insults everyone regardless of their ideological stance.
TGE almost managed to fulfill the above criteria.