Some mega churches affect students adversely
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Last time, parents, mostly uneducated, didn't know how to help their kids from going astray, send them to church. Now parents, educated, like the Dr. Lee, want their children to stay far far away from church to prevent the family being torn apart.Originally posted by vince69:This is what the church teaches...
"Obey your father and mother for this is what the Lord requires of you"
one of the many factors that amy also contribute to this type of breakdown is lack of communication within the family, hence kids like to hang out with their friends who they feel understand them. and many of these kids goes to church just because their friends are there, not so much that they are interested in being christian or the church teachings.
have anyone also blame those internet gaming shops? bowling centers? ...etc where their kids may also hang out?
Is a church a place to teach children the values of Christianity, thus changing their life for the better, or another place like internet gaming shops and bowling centers, where kids hang out with friends?
if your church think that caning, scolding, grounding, detention can add discipline to kids life, their parents would be the first to support you. But do you think punishment is the way to teach? If you think it is, then there is indeed something wrong with the fundamental teachings in these mega church.
Suggest the mega church tell the congregation this: "if you don't reconcile with your parents, if you are not making your parents happy, then don't offer any money to the church, for God would be pleased with you loving your parents before accepting any amount of money you have to offer." You think the preachers of the mega church would take such risk? -
I think it is more like triple fire.Originally posted by Chin Eng:the conflict happens when on one hand, the church preaches a total obedience to God, and parents attempt to ensure that their household remain intact.
the conflict is when a child is caught in the cross fire of differing philosophy.
On one hand, church preaches a total obedience to God. But they also preach obeying your parents.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
Glad to hear that!
that happened in my old church. the members teach that time spent away from church is bad etc..
then because of that my parents wanted to know more about christianity, to make sure I didn't join a cult etc. and now they're christians.
we changed church, now my dad's a cell leader!
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i happen to look at church activities as ---- activities not doctrine.... a person can choose or not to choose to attend a activity. however many churches "market" their activities as doctrine, ie, an ordained and sanctified + requirement to attend.Originally posted by vince69:unker... I am sure your church also have a lot of activities, the schools that your boys are attending also have lots of activities... how are your boys able to balance between their various commiments/activities (church or school or social) and their studies? Isn't this what you as their parent had taught them when they are young?(and I am sure you had taught them well too)
But if the parent failed to teach them this, and the kids got over commited to other activities (church, school, others) and neglected their school work, who then have the responsibilities to help them get back on line? school? church? friends? parents? maids?
for example, cell groups - it is an activity or programme, but the moment the church say that this a requirement and that it is the will of God that every child of God need to attend, it becomes doctrinal. So by NOT attending, a Christian is violating the law of God.... so how?
in the mind of a zealous child - on one side: God (as interpreted by the church) on the other side, parents..... who do you think appears larger? hence, what do you think the conclusion is?
fortunately (or unfortunate for others), i tend to take everything with a pinch of salt. my teaching to my sons: priority in life should be God, family and then church.... and that church DOES NOT equate God.
i am glad to say that my family do not face the kind of problems as highlighted by the letter in the Straits Times. -
actually, i just feel that these problems arises when there's a conflict of interest between the kids and the parents, that's all.
ok, last time when i was really on fire, my parents weren't happy because i'm always away in church or doing church work.
now both my parents go to church, i didn't want to, due to personal reasons, they also not happy, want me to go and stuff.
so the problem don't lie with the church, the problem lies with conflict of interest. -
friend... on the caning/scolding ...etc part, I already say cannot liao... why you still say I support them ... I mention them because these are type of discipline (beside constant reminder, which can result in being taken as a nag)...Originally posted by sgdiehard:Last time, parents, mostly uneducated, didn't know how to help their kids from going astray, send them to church. Now parents, educated, like the Dr. Lee, want their children to stay far far away from church to prevent the family being torn apart.
Is a church a place to teach children the values of Christianity, thus changing their life for the better, or another place like internet gaming shops and bowling centers, where kids hang out with friends?
if your church think that caning, scolding, grounding, detention can add discipline to kids life, their parents would be the first to support you. But do you think punishment is the way to teach? If you think it is, then there is indeed something wrong with the fundamental teachings in these mega church.
Suggest the mega church tell the congregation this: "if you don't reconcile with your parents, if you are not making your parents happy, then don't offer any money to the church, for God would be pleased with you loving your parents before accepting any amount of money you have to offer." You think the preachers of the mega church would take such risk?
oh.... one question
a church can say.... be well with your parents or we ban you from church... but then... if parents don't say, kid don't say... how the church know there is a problem between the kid and their parents?
like what unker Eng says, the parents could have approach the church counsellor or the pastor to talk about this (then at least the church is aware of this problem exist), just like they would meet up with the kid's teacher when they have problem in school... -
not really lah... if look carefully... one of the requirements in obeying God is to obey and honor their parents...Originally posted by Icemoon:I think it is more like triple fire.
On one hand, church preaches a total obedience to God. But they also preach obeying your parents.
so in obeying and honoring their parents, they are also fulfilling what God required of them... -
Corinthians 11:14-15
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Nope. Where got say obey and honor parents is obeying God?Originally posted by vince69:not really lah... if look carefully... one of the requirements in obeying God is to obey and honor their parents...
so in obeying and honoring their parents, they are also fulfilling what God required of them... -
I agree with you on your point, I take my family as my primary ministry from God, meaning my pirority has always been God, Family, Church .... haha...Originally posted by Chin Eng:i happen to look at church activities as ---- activities not doctrine.... a person can choose or not to choose to attend a activity. however many churches "market" their activities as doctrine, ie, an ordained and sanctified + requirement to attend.
for example, cell groups - it is an activity or programme, but the moment the church say that this a requirement and that it is the will of God that every child of God need to attend, it becomes doctrinal. So by NOT attending, a Christian is violating the law of God.... so how?
in the mind of a zealous child - on one side: God (as interpreted by the church) on the other side, parents..... who do you think appears larger? hence, what do you think the conclusion is?
fortunately (or unfortunate for others), i tend to take everything with a pinch of salt. my teaching to my sons: priority in life should be God, family and then church.... and that church DOES NOT equate God.
i am glad to say that my family do not face the kind of problems as highlighted by the letter in the Straits Times. -
what's not new?
anything and everything can be turned into profit in singapore. you know i wouldn't be surprised if these so called "mega churches" started marketing bibles and crosses in fancy packings. -
but you conveniently ignore this postOriginally posted by vince69:not really lah... if look carefully... one of the requirements in obeying God is to obey and honor their parents...
so in obeying and honoring their parents, they are also fulfilling what God required of them...Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:and if the parents tell them not to go to church? Will the church honor their own teaching and say, "Please don't come until you get a written permission from your parents". There is such a thing as lip service, you know?
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book shops have been doing this for ages...Originally posted by newcomer:what's not new?
anything and everything can be turned into profit in singapore. you know i wouldn't be surprised if these so called "mega churches" started marketing bibles and crosses in fancy packings. -
question is, how will the church knows about this instruction from the parent to their kid, if neither of them were to inform the church about this?Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
but I do know of one case where the pastor actually told my friend (that time I still studying) to skip church services/activities till her parents give her their consent (actually it started of with her complainting that her parents don't like her to attend church) -
because this is what God requires of youOriginally posted by Icemoon:Nope. Where got say obey and honor parents is obeying God? -
that's why i hate religion.
the pushy kind at least.
its like a pushy salesman.
keep forcing u forcing u until u sign.
they'll do anything, extremely unethical.
i hate these people.
i'll laugh at them when they lose their job and when they're down in their life.
opoos... i said too much liao... sorry... it's hard for me to forgive these people... -
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:actually, i just feel that these problems arises when there's a conflict of interest between the kids and the parents, that's all.
ok, last time when i was really on fire, my parents weren't happy because i'm always away in church or doing church work.
now both my parents go to church, i didn't want to, due to personal reasons, they also not happy, want me to go and stuff.
so the problem don't lie with the church, the problem lies with conflict of interest.
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It says honour, it did not say obey.Originally posted by vince69:because this is what God requires of you
This is one of the 10 commandments I suppose? In that case there is the issue of interpretation involved also.
A literal reading will lead to many problems. In fact, monotheism was born because Abram chose to go against his dad Terach. So from the birth of monotheism, there is already a conflict between parents and God. -
all problems lie with conflict of interest.Originally posted by dumbdumb!:so the problem don't lie with the church, the problem lies with conflict of interest.
In this case, churchs' interest conflict with family's interest. -
then they should preach it and not hide/ignore the problem and tell the youths that if their parents object, please don't come to church.Originally posted by vince69:question is, how will the church knows about this instruction from the parent to their kid, if neither of them were to inform the church about this?
but I do know of one case where the pastor actually told my friend (that time I still studying) to skip church services/activities till her parents give her their consent (actually it started of with her complainting that her parents don't like her to attend church) -
won't work that way la. and its not a win win solution.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:then they should preach it and not hide/ignore the problem and tell the youths that if their parents object, please don't come to church. -
err.... we are talking about young kids here... when Abram left his father to follow God, he is already how old???? married liao loh...Originally posted by Icemoon:It says honour, it did not say obey.
This is one of the 10 commandments I suppose? In that case there is the issue of interpretation involved also.
A literal reading will lead to many problems. In fact, monotheism was born because Abram chose to go against his dad Terach. So from the birth of monotheism, there is already a conflict between parents and God. anyway... no records says his father object to this, even let Lot, his nephew to follow him somemore... -
if i am not wrong, in the jewish culture. you're already considered a man, and can make your own decisions at a certain age. i think what 16?Originally posted by vince69:err.... we are talking about young kids here... when Abram left his father to follow God, he is already how old???? married liao loh... anyway... no records says his father object to this, even let Lot, his nephew to follow him somemore... -
and the pastor should employ bouncers to stand at the door... no consent form cannot enter...Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:then they should preach it and not hide/ignore the problem and tell the youths that if their parents object, please don't come to church.
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the whole point is to come to a win win situation
how are these solutions going to achieve that?