Some mega churches affect students adversely
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http://www.straitstimes.com/ST%2BForum/Story/STIStory_159276.html
I READ with deep interest the article, 'Drawing the line between Caesar and God' (ST, Aug 2).
The objection of one of the large independent churches in Singapore to complying with provisions in the draft code of governance for charities would logically provoke concern about its financial transparency. This is especially so as these are 'rich' churches, judging by their well-equipped premises and set-up. These circumstances bring to light another concern. Some of these 'mega churches' have relentless recruitment activities in many schools and junior colleges.
My friends and I have loved ones whose lives and attitude have changed after they joined these churches. They lose interest in schoolwork to the point of academic failure. Family time is curtailed drastically, and they stop attending family functions. Parental objections are ignored, family squabbles ensue and family harmony is disrupted. It's heartbreaking. It is like we have lost our children.
I write this not to impugn any religion, but to warn against the abuse of religion. Having had such traumatic experiences, I cannot remain silent. I hope this letter will serve as a warning to parents regarding such youth activities that may destroy their personal lives and family harmony.
Dr Lee Bee Wah -
So what should the church do to ally the fears of the parents? -
How about a donation of sorts? Or pay the students market rate for their marketing activities?Originally posted by Icemoon:
So what should the church do to ally the fears of the parents? -
It is dependable on the education system in Churches, in my opinion.
Whatever that is too much is consider an abuse, i personally is not a christian but occasionally i flip thru the bible to read.
I can see there is hatred between fellow christians against other churches, which they deemed to be commercialised. In my opinion, commercialised or not, the aim is to help the "lost" to find the true path to the holy one. -
Then as parents, they should help their kids managed their time....Originally posted by Icemoon:
So what should the church do to ally the fears of the parents?
By the way, what can the church do? the church can't enforce discipline on them (only their parents can) and there is no 'BAN' button to press also (punt intented) 
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I am totally against churches that attempts to preach to the children that they need to be loyal to "GOD and Church" and ends up having these children spending a ridiculous of time and money support their activities.Originally posted by Icemoon:So what should the church do to ally the fears of the parents?
Many of such organisations blur the line of allegiance between God and church. Church do not necessarily equal to God. Church programs are inherently still programs and these kids MUST realise that.
Such churches need to realise that some of their attempts to glorify God is in reality, tearing the fabric of family unity. In their zeal to serve God, many times they actually alienate themselves to those who they are trying to reach.
btw, ice, you beat me to this post.... read it in the papers today. -
I read it online.Originally posted by Chin Eng:btw, ice, you beat me to this post.... read it in the papers today. -
huhh....what can the church do???? if the church can't do anything about discipline, then stop the "relentless recruitment activities in many schools and junior colleges", don't change the "lives and attitude" of others loved ones, don't....disrupt family harmony. don't break anymore heart, don't take the children away from their parents.Originally posted by vince69:Then as parents, they should help their kids managed their time....
By the way, what can the church do? the church can't enforce discipline on them (only their parents can) and there is no 'BAN' button to press also (punt intented) . -
This is like asking how the snake can help allay the fears of the chickens.Originally posted by Icemoon:
So what should the church do to ally the fears of the parents? -
what type of discipline can or expected to enforce on the kids???Originally posted by sgdiehard:huhh....what can the church do???? if the church can't do anything about discipline, then stop the "relentless recruitment activities in many schools and junior colleges", don't change the "lives and attitude" of others loved ones, don't....disrupt family harmony. don't break anymore heart, don't take the children away from their parents.
caning? cannot
scolding? cannot
grounding? cannot
detention? cannot
the thing to remember is, the church do not have any authority to discipline these kids. The only person who have the moral and legal authority to enforce such discipline is still their parents. -
no, its more like blaming the teachers for the ill discipline of their children (while not allowing the teacher to punish them for these ill disciplines)Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:This is like asking how the snake can help allay the fears of the chickens. -
Are you saying that the church has no role in promoting the beliefs that led to the breakdown in the familiar harmony in those households?Originally posted by vince69:no, its more like blaming the teachers for the unwillingness and ill discipline of their children (while not allowing the teacher to punish them for these ill disciplines) -
getting a person converted will always create frictions with the person's past commitments, family and friends de lah.
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Actually some preachers unknowingly teach that time away from church or church activities are undesirable. This leads to youths over-committing themselves in church.Originally posted by vince69:what type of discipline can or expected to enforce on the kids???
caning? cannot
scolding? cannot
grounding? cannot
detention? cannot
the thing to remember is, the church do not have any authority to discipline these kids. The only person who have the moral and legal authority to enforce such discipline is still their parents.
I think these preachers need to rethink about what they teach.
The church need to teach children to be good stewards of time. They need to teach that we should honour our parents. They need to teach them that they are to be salt and light of the world everywhere they go, not just in church. -
This is what the church teaches...Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Are you saying that the church has no role in promoting the beliefs that led to the breakdown in the familiar harmony in those households?
"Obey your father and mother for this is what the Lord requires of you"
one of the many factors that amy also contribute to this type of breakdown is lack of communication within the family, hence kids like to hang out with their friends who they feel understand them. and many of these kids goes to church just because their friends are there, not so much that they are interested in being christian or the church teachings.
have anyone also blame those internet gaming shops? bowling centers? ...etc where their kids may also hang out? -
My problem with this article and also some of the arguments here is that the putting of the blame of family breakdowns solely on the church... don't the parents also have the responsibilities of teaching their children? don't these kids (secondary school/junior colleges) old enough to know about discipline (if not, what have the parents been teaching them during all those years before?)Originally posted by sillyme:Actually some preachers unknowingly teach that time away from church or church activities are undesirable. This leads to youths over-committing themselves in church.
I think these preachers need to rethink about what they teach.
The church need to teach children to be good stewards of time. They need to teach that we should honour our parents. They need to teach them that they are to be salt and light of the world everywhere they go, not just in church. -
I don't think so.Originally posted by vince69:This is what the church teaches...
"Obey your father and mother for this is what the Lord requires of you"
If there is a conflict between church and family/parents, how to resolve?
Perhaps we need to take the context into consideration. It could be that the original message is for people whose parents also believe in the same God, e.g. Jews.
In the event your parents command you to idolatory, the prohibition against idolatory is greater than the "prohibition" not to disobey your parents, if there is such a prohibition. -
and if the parents tell them not to go to church? Will the church honor their own teaching and say, "Please don't come until you get a written permission from your parents". There is such a thing as lip service, you know?Originally posted by vince69:This is what the church teaches...
"Obey your father and mother for this is what the Lord requires of you"
one of the many factors that amy also contribute to this type of breakdown is lack of communication within the family, hence kids like to hang out with their friends who they feel understand them. and many of these kids goes to church just because their friends are there, not so much that they are interested in being christian or the church teachings.
have anyone also blame those internet gaming shops? bowling centers? ...etc where their kids may also hang out? -
that happened in my old church. the members teach that time spent away from church is bad etc..
then because of that my parents wanted to know more about christianity, to make sure I didn't join a cult etc. and now they're christians.
we changed church, now my dad's a cell leader!
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I think this is a valid point. Then again, the writer is saying that the church is the cause or at least the trigger to the breakdown.Originally posted by vince69:one of the many factors that amy also contribute to this type of breakdown is lack of communication within the family, hence kids like to hang out with their friends who they feel understand them. and many of these kids goes to church just because their friends are there, not so much that they are interested in being christian or the church teachings.
We must also remember that youths are at the age of exploration and testing boundaries. They have tremendous amounts of energy that needs to be guided. I think the church can be a positive guide to them during this time.
Unfortunately, some youths use church activities as an excuse to do things they like as opposed to activities such as studying.
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But the parents have been teaching their children! About not converting to another religion. About spending more time with the family. Blah blah.Originally posted by vince69:My problem with this article and also some of the arguments here is that the putting of the blame of family breakdowns solely on the church... don't the parents also have the responsibilities of teaching their children? don't these kids (secondary school/junior colleges) old enough to know about discipline (if not, what have the parents been teaching them during all those years before?)
The church is not a school. While all parents entrusted their children to a school and some over-relied on the school to discipline their children, it is not the same case with the church.
Flawed reasoning here, vince. -
unker... I am sure your church also have a lot of activities, the schools that your boys are attending also have lots of activities... how are your boys able to balance between their various commiments/activities (church or school or social) and their studies? Isn't this what you as their parent had taught them when they are young?(and I am sure you had taught them well too)Originally posted by Chin Eng:I am totally against churches that attempts to preach to the children that they need to be loyal to "GOD and Church" and ends up having these children spending a ridiculous of time and money support their activities.
Many of such organisations blur the line of allegiance between God and church. Church do not necessarily equal to God. Church programs are inherently still programs and these kids MUST realise that.
Such churches need to realise that some of their attempts to glorify God is in reality, tearing the fabric of family unity. In their zeal to serve God, many times they actually alienate themselves to those who they are trying to reach.
btw, ice, you beat me to this post.... read it in the papers today.
But if the parent failed to teach them this, and the kids got over commited to other activities (church, school, others) and neglected their school work, who then have the responsibilities to help them get back on line? school? church? friends? parents? maids?
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cell leader got more money or got more power arh?Originally posted by dumbdumb!:that happened in my old church. the members teach that time spent away from church is bad etc..
then because of that my parents wanted to know more about christianity, to make sure I didn't join a cult etc. and now they're christians.
we changed church, now my dad's a cell leader! -
the conflict happens when on one hand, the church preaches a total obedience to God, and parents attempt to ensure that their household remain intact.Originally posted by vince69:My problem with this article and also some of the arguments here is that the putting of the blame of family breakdowns solely on the church... don't the parents also have the responsibilities of teaching their children? don't these kids (secondary school/junior colleges) old enough to know about discipline (if not, what have the parents been teaching them during all those years before?)
the conflict is when a child is caught in the cross fire of differing philosophy.
my view is that for parents who are caught in such a situation, should go to the church and express their views to the church. the church may not be aware of the problem it has created. -
Parents definitely have the responsibility impart the right values to their children.Originally posted by vince69:My problem with this article and also some of the arguments here is that the putting of the blame of family breakdowns solely on the church... don't the parents also have the responsibilities of teaching their children? don't these kids (secondary school/junior colleges) old enough to know about discipline (if not, what have the parents been teaching them during all those years before?)
But I think a typical situation would be like this.
Youth: Mum, dad, I won't be joining you all today.
Parents: Why?
Youth: Got church la. Meeting my friends.
Parents: Huh? Again?
Youth: Pastor say.... etc etc.
But the truth is, some of them just want to hang out with their friends.