New creation church New bldg~~~
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see, i am not wrong when i said somebody is cunning enough to use irrelevant points for flaming
and i still wonder at people who think this kid is innocent
who is talking about questioning his intention?
what u propose is that Christians can worship Christ in a superficial way or to portray the image of a faithful worshipper
that is so uncalled for from a Christian -
Take note, i said ALL his actions. This would mean that it is nothing about portraying an image or a put-up show. Dont put words into my mouth.Originally posted by laurence82:see, i am not wrong when i said somebody is cunning enough to use irrelevant points for flaming
and i still wonder at people who think this kid is innocent
who is talking about questioning his intention?
what u propose is that Christians can worship Christ in a superficial way or to portray the image of a faithful worshipper
that is so uncalled for from a Christian
And i dont care about your judgement at all. It even works in religion. Once a person already decides his stand, anything he sees would only be a supporting pillar for his own view. -
dont put words into my mouth either
why u only concentrate on 'the ALL the actions'? i dont noe how the whole discussion can be centred on this part alone
twisting the discussion arent you?
what i want to know is, how can you, as a Christian, be supportive of such superficialities?
even as a non Christian, i am quite disgusted and disturbed with such thinking, and supposedly other Christians should feel the same too, if they do push aside personal ego and look at the thing objectively -
who is judging u?
u are what u are, i dont even have to say
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hmm lets see, perhaps we need a magnifying glass.Originally posted by laurence82:who is judging u?
u are what u are, i dont even have to say
Ok you said that i was cunning,
And that i was using irrelevant posts for flaming
And that i am a superficial person.
and the last one, that is really judging. You cross the line of judging intentions to judging a person in itself of who he is -
WooHoo~~~~
I am here! -
yes its logicalOriginally posted by davidche:hmm lets see, perhaps we need a magnifying glass.
Ok you said that i was cunning,
And that i was using irrelevant posts for flaming
And that i am a superficial person.
and the last one, that is really judging. You cross the line of judging intentions to judging a person in itself of who he is
u use a irrelevant issue from past arguments to use as a point against my points, instead of arguing directly against my points
therefore, in conclusion, you are cunning
you are superficial because you think its right people can worship Christ superficially
and up to now, you have not still argued against my poinst
why are you proposing people can worship Christ in a superficial manner? -
go away larOriginally posted by gasband:WooHoo~~~~
I am here!
i am still holding the reign of the most handsomus award -
Ok i will answer your qn. I dont support superficialities(hmm i support it?)Originally posted by laurence82:dont put words into my mouth either
why u only concentrate on 'the ALL the actions'? i dont noe how the whole discussion can be centred on this part alone
twisting the discussion arent you?
what i want to know is, how can you, as a Christian, be supportive of such superficialities?
even as a non Christian, i am quite disgusted and disturbed with such thinking, and supposedly other Christians should feel the same too, if they do push aside personal ego and look at the thing objectively
But i do take a stand that we shouldnt judge a pastor as anti-chirst just by looking at part of his actions.
A father rides on a horse while his son walks on the road in a journey towards Arabia. People say his father doesnt love his child
The Son rides on the horse and the father does the walking, people say the son is not obedient and doesnt honour his father.
Both people ride on the horse, people say they are so cruel to the horse. -
hey that is like so yesterday.Originally posted by laurence82:go away lar
i am still holding the reign of the most handsomus award
Everyone's going after the Most Charmingly Award and I just retain that title for the next 10 yearss -
poor use of analogies
your analogy deal with different perspective of the matter
in your original post, you were already say this
u already stated he is anti christ, you already stated his intention is badOriginally posted by davidche:Lets say this pastor, all he does are things that glorify God. Does his intentions matter? Even if the intentions were bad(which is most probly not) while his actions are good, these actions would only manifest a good effect.
So does intentions(your wolf thing) matter if his ALL actions show a sheep?
In other words, so what if his intentions are anti-christ natured while ALL that he does is for christ.
Therefore, it is either you mistaken the actions or you mistaken your so-thought motive and this is my stand.
(This is my first time using the word 'manifest' so, you get what i mean...may be used wrongly...)
you do support bad intentions 'good' actions
the worse thing is, in the last line, you twisted to say its about perspective
and now you are using the analogies relating to perspectives
so i am right, you are twisting the discussions -
Yup you made those judgement and you just made it clearer.Originally posted by laurence82:yes its logical
u use a irrelevant issue from past arguments to use as a point against my points, instead of arguing directly against my points
therefore, in conclusion, you are cunning
you are superficial because you think its right people can worship Christ superficially
and up to now, you have not still argued against my poinst
why are you proposing people can worship Christ in a superficial manner?
I never ever proposed that we worship chirst in a superficial manner, another thing to add on the list.
And since you mentioned it, it is definitely a no-no to worship God superficially because God knows our intentions unlike people. We can only make guesses, deductions based on people's actions to try and see thei intentions. -
do i need to grasp at straws to make personal attacks just like our davidche here?
seriously, at this rate, i can simply use his points against him, right here right now, no need to look far
even if its to prove that he contradicts and twists his points -
again, you cant prove what judgment i madeOriginally posted by davidche:Yup you made those judgement and you just made it clearer.
I never ever proposed that we worship chirst in a superficial manner, another thing to add on the list.
And since you mentioned it, it is definitely a no-no to worship God superficially because God knows our intentions unlike people. We can only make guesses, deductions based on people's actions to try and see thei intentions.
i have already proved that you supported superficialities
pls refute this point -
Sorry the analogies was trying to say that whatever a person does, there is always a way to twist it to be bad.Originally posted by laurence82:poor use of analogies
your analogy deal with different perspective of the matter
in your original post, you were already say this
u already stated he is anti christ, you already stated his intention is bad
you do support bad intentions 'good' actions
the worse thing is, in the last line, you twisted to say its about perspective
and now you are using the analogies relating to perspectives
so i am right, you are twisting the discussions
If Kong says glorify God, you could say thats hypocrisy, or you could say wow, thats great.
Different ways to judge and therefore different perspectives. -
finally u admit itOriginally posted by davidche:Sorry the analogies was trying to say that whatever a person does, there is always a way to twist it to be bad.
If Kong says glorify God, you could say thats hypocrisy, or you could say wow, thats great.
Different ways to judge and therefore different perspectives.
means ur analogies on perspective got nothing to do with your points on superficialities
i wonder how come other Christians are letting you getting away with it for proposing that Christians can worship God superficially -
Lets say this pastor, all he does are things that glorify God. Does his intentions matter? Even if the intentions were bad(which is most probly not) while his actions are good, these actions would only manifest a good effect.Originally posted by laurence82:again, you cant prove what judgment i made
i have already proved that you supported superficialities
pls refute this point
So does intentions(your wolf thing) matter if his ALL actions show a sheep?
In other words, so what if his intentions are anti-christ natured while ALL that he does is for christ.
Evidently the underlined cant be true.
Take note that i am rebutting the post made by that guy.
The thing is we shouldnt look ''deeper'' we should just see the good actions and no, not believe that the actions show his good intentions, but, reserve our judgement.
Of course you cannot see something that is very subtle!
On the surface, it looks very noble. But look deeper!
Religion and God have been used by all cloaks of people to serve their own ends. It is no different whether they wear ordinary clothe or religious gown! Heard of this story - the wolf in sheep's clothing?
I say: you are very naive and most of your postings show that! -
omg, so what if his intentions are anti christ???
david, did you just join the Satanic cult or something recently?
you are getting worse than i thought
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I dont need to prove that you are judging because i did not judge the fact that you are judging.
You need to prove your judgement is correct because your judgement is a believed inference. And inference requires evidence.
However, when i say a person is murdering somepne, that you are jduging, it takes no evidence. It is clear and factual, just like saying an apple is a fruit.
In conclusion i want to say that i am not trying to quarrel with you.
I reinstated my stand once again that i am arguing about judging issues This arguement only started when you accused me of being a superficial person. Whether you like it or not, i was defending myself.
I have no intentions of arguing with you. In fact i never said anything to do with you. You were only pulled in when i defended myself due to your accusation and coincedently, it has something to do with your judgement about me.
Thats all for today.
It is good to take your steps down when the other person places the stairs for you.
Cheers and God bless
(and just in case you judge again, i am not being hypocrite for saying that, i always say that to end off ) -
no no i am not interested in all theseOriginally posted by davidche:I dont need to prove that you are judging because i did not judge the fact that you are judging.
You need to prove your judgement is correct because your judgement is a believed inference. And inference requires evidence.
However, when i say a person is murdering somepne, that you are jduging, it takes no evidence. It is clear and factual, just like saying an apple is a fruit.
In conclusion i want to say that i am not trying to quarrel with you.
I reinstated my stand once again that i am arguing about judging issues This arguement only started when you accused me of being a superficial person. Whether you like it or not, i was defending myself.
I have no intentions of arguing with you. In fact i never said anything to do with you. You were only pulled in when i defended myself due to your accusation and coincedently, it has something to do with your judgement about me.
Thats all for today.
It is good to take your steps down when the other person places the stairs for you.
Cheers and God bless
(and just in case you judge again, i am not being hypocrite for saying that, i always say that to end off )
it wont help you avoid the gobblegook that you were saying just now
why did you support that even if a pastor intentions is antichrist or bad, and all his actions (in short superficialities) are good, its ok?
i want to know why
i am not interested in the rest of your so called diplomatic speeches -
no la i meant that we should just see the actions itself and reserve our judgement untill it becomes a fact and no more inference is needed.Originally posted by laurence82:no no i am not interested in all these
it wont help you avoid the gobblegook that you were saying just now
why did you support that even if a pastor intentions is antichrist or bad, and all his actions (in short superficialities) are good, its ok?
i want to know why
i am not interested in the rest of your so called diplomatic speeches
And indeed they are diplomatic speeches. There is no way one can completely avoid judgements of things, peoples in life. And it is sometimes good, in my opinion, to judge too if there are overwhelming evidences.
Btw, the bible commands christians not to judge.
hmm, this is clarification, followed by an agreement. I dont think there is a need for arguement. Oh pls see my thread on arguement. -
again, i am not very interested in this nonsenseOriginally posted by davidche:no la i meant that we should just see the actions itself and reserve our judgement untill it becomes a fact and no more inference is needed.
And indeed they are diplomatic speeches. There is no way one can completely avoid judgements of things, peoples in life. And it is sometimes good, in my opinion, to judge too if there are overwhelming evidences.
Btw, the bible commands christians not to judge.
hmm, this is clarification, followed by an agreement. I dont think there is a need for arguement. Oh pls see my thread on arguement.
why on earth do you support such actions by the pastor?
you are totally avoiding this issue -
If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast,a but do not have love, I gain nothing.
1 Corinthians 13:1-3
Intentions do matter. -
a double whammy of sorts, i guess
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Hi guys...
(1A) You reap what you sow, you get what you give. If you tithe you will receive more blessings from God. If you don't tithe, you cannot expect to receive the same amount of blessings from God against someone who tithes.
(1B) Offering is a very sacred duty for christians to comply. If you do not understand the meaning of offering. Please kindly refrain from giving. If you have a grudge against any of your brother, leave your offering at the side, make peace with your brother before giving.
(2A) Tongues roll out without order.
(2B) read 1 Cor 14
Please observe the contrast between (A) & (B).
(1A) is telling the believer that the blessings we receive from God is proportional to the amount of money we give to the church. However we must know that God loves everyone equally. Whether we tithe of do not tithe, it makes no difference to God for he was hung on the cross for all. So that anyone who believes in him will have access to his Kingdom. In regards to (1B) giving to God 10% of our income is an order from God. However he want us to give correctly with the right mindset. How dare anyone bargain with God for his blessings with our worthless earthly currency. Let those who do this remember the story of Achan. Let those who do not do this remember the incident when Jesus said those who are without sin may throw the 1st stone.
(2A) is a typical scenario in some churches in the world now. Only the person who speak in tongues know whether is he really speaking with the manifestation from God or is he merely speaking in his own tongue. However I must remind that if he is speaking in his own tongue yet claiming to be Godly language is tantamount to poking fun at God. Let him answer for his own actions. (2B) states a chapter on the correct use of tongues. We are all mere fools if we were to look at the standard of God's borderless intellegence. How dare one pick on God's gifts and poke fun at it. Again let those who do this remember the story of Achan & let those who do not do this remember the incident when Jesus said those who are without sin may throw the 1st stone.
God is omni-present, borderless powerful, absolute authority. Those who play around with his authority will ultimately pay the price. But it is not up to man to decide how much the price will be. But rather advise him like a brother on what is not to be done. If he does not listen after your advises, distance yourself from his acts. But maintain your brotherhood love with him and convince him not by mere words. Rather with real actions. So that when he sees it, he will be convinced. It is a tough route to take. But what is this compared to the humiliation and pains Jesus shouldered for a world of sinners.
I personally dun think I have a right to tell any christians off for doing wrong. Because I too am a sinner. But let those who failed to see the truth receive the true blessings from God to see. I was advised by church workers from Campus crusade but I insisted with twisted theories from the false teachings that I was right. But I was totally humbled and proven wrong time and again with the mercy of Christ. I was from charismatic church before. I have since distanced myself from the movement. And the best way to help another person is not via arguments. We are not up to the standard to challenge the devil. Only let God do what he wants and we do what we're supposed to.
God bless you all.