Doctrine of all-inclusivesness: Truth or Lies?
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There have been posts by a "Catholic" who claimed that everyone are "Christians", even though they belong to and practise another religion. Even if they dun believe in Christ, they can still be saved through their own ways in their own religion.
If this doctrine is true, then the Christian concept of Hell/Paradise has to be thrown into the dustbin and the bible kept away (becoz it is so clear that those who do not believe in Christ will be condemned!) We can stop evangelising because everyone who do not believe in Christ are saved. Not just the Calvinists, but also the Arminians who do not agreed with them BELIEVED HELL IS REAL!
Furthermore, even the CATHOLICS believed in Hell for unrepentent sinners!!!! Even they believe that Christ is the only way thru Christians are saved. "Christianity" without Christ is surely not a gospel given to us by Christ and his apostles. It is the devil's lie. The devil wants u to believe that u can be saved even without Christ. Christ is taken out of the equation and the devil wants u to believe in man-made religions instead.
This is surely saddening for the state of the Church, becoz pragmatism now reigns over orthodoxy. Instead of God-centered Christianity, it has become Man-centered Christianity preached to please Man's ears. Be warned brethren, that you would stand fast to the faith and not be misled by heresies. -
Perhaps you should tell us how people who have never heard of the gospel can be saved, to prevent misunderstanding.
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You will have to make sure they come to you at night and tell u, becoz I have not heard or seen these pple before.Originally posted by Icemoon:Perhaps you should tell us how people who have never heard of the gospel can be saved, to prevent misunderstanding. -
but indeed many have not heard of the gospel before.Originally posted by laoda99:You will have to make sure they come to you at night and tell u, becoz I have not heard or seen these pple before.
at least in the past. -
hmm, i once attended this catholic talk, they said wearing some stuff gives u unlimited grace. and anyone can wear it.
kinda contradictary. -
many many years ago, for a xmas special a priest from novena church was interviewed by the papers in which he was asked if christ is the only way to heaven, he said no and that he never preached that ever...that was really strange...that fellow was eurasian...
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tts why i don't really trust catholics.
a priest once told me, that satan can be forgiven if he apologised for his actions.
but the bible contradicted what he said.
i think no matter what, always take everything with a pinch of salt -
He could have said "no comments" or taichi the question to the archbishop.Originally posted by countdracula:many many years ago, for a xmas special a priest from novena church was interviewed by the papers in which he was asked if christ is the only way to heaven, he said no and that he never preached that ever...that was really strange...that fellow was eurasian...
Or he could have shoot a question back - are you asking my view or the view of the Catholic Church. -
What is contradictory?Originally posted by dumbdumb!:tts why i don't really trust catholics.
a priest once told me, that satan can be forgiven if he apologised for his actions.
but the bible contradicted what he said.
i think no matter what, always take everything with a pinch of salt
That Satan could be forgiven if he apologised for his actions?
Why is this contradictory.
The only reason that Satan is destined to hell, is because God has, in his foreknowledge, known that Satan was never going to repent. Foreknowledge and Predestination should not be confused.
Thus the statement, "IF Satan apologised, he can be forgiven" is true. That is the policy. The word "IF" is used exactly in the same way Paul uses it in his letter to the Romans, "For Argument's Sake, IF (even though its not likely/possible)". It is a matter of policy. He does not say that Satan can have Salvation because the second unspoken statement is that, "But Alas, Satan would never repent - God knows this because God can see into the future" -
That certainly has never been in the Catholic Doctrine. Ever.Originally posted by dumbdumb!:hmm, i once attended this catholic talk, they said wearing some stuff gives u unlimited grace. and anyone can wear it.
kinda contradictary. -
You should tell me who this Catholic is. I'll talk to him. As far as I know, Most Catholics believe that:Originally posted by laoda99:There have been posts by a "Catholic" who claimed that everyone are "Christians", even though they belong to and practise another religion. Even if they dun believe in Christ, they can still be saved through their own ways in their own religion.
If this doctrine is true, then the Christian concept of Hell/Paradise has to be thrown into the dustbin and the bible kept away (becoz it is so clear that those who do not believe in Christ will be condemned!) We can stop evangelising because everyone who do not believe in Christ are saved. Not just the Calvinists, but also the Arminians who do not agreed with them BELIEVED HELL IS REAL!
Furthermore, even the CATHOLICS believed in Hell for unrepentent sinners!!!! Even they believe that Christ is the only way thru Christians are saved. "Christianity" without Christ is surely not a gospel given to us by Christ and his apostles. It is the devil's lie. The devil wants u to believe that u can be saved even without Christ. Christ is taken out of the equation and the devil wants u to believe in man-made religions instead.
This is surely saddening for the state of the Church, becoz pragmatism now reigns over orthodoxy. Instead of God-centered Christianity, it has become Man-centered Christianity preached to please Man's ears. Be warned brethren, that you would stand fast to the faith and not be misled by heresies.
1. Not everyone are Christians, but he who does the work of God and walks in the light of truth.
2. While a person doesn't need to know Christ on his earthly life to be saved, if he has lived according to the "truth written in his hearts", He will accordingly recognised Jesus at the "Judgement " and cry out "My Lord, it is you I have been seeking all my life." And Jesus will say, "I know, for you fed me when I was hungry, and you clothed me when I was naked" Then the person will say, "When did I ever do that?" And Jesus will say, "Whenever you did this to the least of my brothers, You did it to me". All Goodness comes from God. And apart from God, nothing Good can come. If a non-Christian lives in the "truth" and does God, it is because he has, by reducing his own pride, allowed the Holy Spirit to fill him without knowing it. Thus while he does not know it, he walks in the light.
3. We do not believe everyone will be saved.
4. We believe that Evangelism is necessary because Satan prowls around like a lion, seeking to devour the souls of men. If we do not evangelise, they will be misled and made to seek their own pleasures over "what is right and true" - the law written in their hearts. As a result, on the Day of Judgement, they will, together with Satan, say, "I will not serve you." and again, "I do not need God", not knowing that the absence of God, is eternal torment. For if God is everything Good, the absence of God is the absence of anything at all that one can find comfort in. It's worse than an everlasting fire.
5. Christ is the only way to Salvation. If Christ had not come down and atoned for sins on the cross, no man can ever be saved. Christ's atonement was made for all time - the past, the present and the future. Abraham and Moses could not be saved, if Christ did not atone for all of mankind. Christ's sacrifice transcends time.
Tell me who leh. I will wake up his idea. -
avoid the dodgy priests and you'll do fine.Originally posted by dumbdumb!:tts why i don't really trust catholics.
a priest once told me, that satan can be forgiven if he apologised for his actions.
but the bible contradicted what he said.
i think no matter what, always take everything with a pinch of salt -
Lots of clergy from whatever denomination have been exiled from Singapore for their nonsense, hopefully whatever they preach, Singaporeans should take it with a huge pinch of salt.
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One does not need to hear the gospel to be saved. One only needs to believe in Christ to be saved. One does not need to hear the gospel to believe in Christ. It is alot of assumption that a person has not heard of Christ or the gospel in his entire lifetime. And what qualifies as "heard"? There are just so many scenarios aren't there?
1) A person has heard but forgot he has heard.
2) A person has heard but did not think he has heard enough to make a decision
3) A person has heard but choose to lie he has not heard.
4) A person has heard but refuse to believe
5) A person read somewhere that there is a God but did not hear from someone there is a God
6) A person saw a poster JEsus Saves! but did not think much of it.
7) A person met someone on campus who told him "Hey wanna hear about the God who gave his life to save you? but rejects it.
and many many more.....
It is really a big assumption to say someone has not "heard" of God or the gospel. We can talk about the babies who die at birth and that is of course another topic to debate about.....
ah again...so tiring to discuss all these stuff online....till i am not tired again haha.... -
Then there are really people who stays in area so remote that they have not really any contact with anything from their "outside" world or they had passed away before any missionary or even "outside" information is able to reach them.Originally posted by gasband:One does not need to hear the gospel to be saved. One only needs to believe in Christ to be saved. One does not need to hear the gospel to believe in Christ. It is alot of assumption that a person has not heard of Christ or the gospel in his entire lifetime. And what qualifies as "heard"? There are just so many scenarios aren't there?
1) A person has heard but forgot he has heard.
2) A person has heard but did not think he has heard enough to make a decision
3) A person has heard but choose to lie he has not heard.
4) A person has heard but refuse to believe
5) A person read somewhere that there is a God but did not hear from someone there is a God
6) A person saw a poster JEsus Saves! but did not think much of it.
7) A person met someone on campus who told him "Hey wanna hear about the God who gave his life to save you? but rejects it. and many many more.....
It is really a big assumption to say someone has not "heard" of God or the gospel. We can talk about the babies who die at birth and that is of course another topic to debate about.....
ah again...so tiring to discuss all these stuff online....till i am not tired again haha....
Another group of people that Icey could be refering to may be those that are before Christ.
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There are definitely many many people who have not heard of the gospel. The world is so big.Originally posted by gasband:One does not need to hear the gospel to be saved. One only needs to believe in Christ to be saved. One does not need to hear the gospel to believe in Christ. It is alot of assumption that a person has not heard of Christ or the gospel in his entire lifetime. And what qualifies as "heard"? There are just so many scenarios aren't there?
1) A person has heard but forgot he has heard.
2) A person has heard but did not think he has heard enough to make a decision
3) A person has heard but choose to lie he has not heard.
4) A person has heard but refuse to believe
5) A person read somewhere that there is a God but did not hear from someone there is a God
6) A person saw a poster JEsus Saves! but did not think much of it.
7) A person met someone on campus who told him "Hey wanna hear about the God who gave his life to save you? but rejects it. and many many more.....
It is really a big assumption to say someone has not "heard" of God or the gospel. We can talk about the babies who die at birth and that is of course another topic to debate about.....
ah again...so tiring to discuss all these stuff online....till i am not tired again haha.... -
There are also plenty who had heard it and don't want to be bothered by it.Originally posted by davidche:There are definitely many many people who have not heard of the gospel. The world is so big. -
is there any bible verse basis for that?Originally posted by laoda99:There have been posts by a "Catholic" who claimed that everyone are "Christians", even though they belong to and practise another religion. Even if they dun believe in Christ, they can still be saved through their own ways in their own religion.
If this doctrine is true, then the Christian concept of Hell/Paradise has to be thrown into the dustbin and the bible kept away (becoz it is so clear that those who do not believe in Christ will be condemned!) We can stop evangelising because everyone who do not believe in Christ are saved. Not just the Calvinists, but also the Arminians who do not agreed with them BELIEVED HELL IS REAL!
Furthermore, even the CATHOLICS believed in Hell for unrepentent sinners!!!! Even they believe that Christ is the only way thru Christians are saved. "Christianity" without Christ is surely not a gospel given to us by Christ and his apostles. It is the devil's lie. The devil wants u to believe that u can be saved even without Christ. Christ is taken out of the equation and the devil wants u to believe in man-made religions instead.
This is surely saddening for the state of the Church, becoz pragmatism now reigns over orthodoxy. Instead of God-centered Christianity, it has become Man-centered Christianity preached to please Man's ears. Be warned brethren, that you would stand fast to the faith and not be misled by heresies.
i only know that Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." -
You see .... that is not what Jesus said but that was what was written by his disciples or some nuts. As a result Mohammed copied that line and said; there is no other prophet after me, and there is no other god but Allah..Originally posted by dumbdumb!:i only know that Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." -
The simplest way to answer all these people is to ask them to read Revelations.
Because there were many people who were judged and even some who called Jesus Lord, so-called "christians" attending churches, were thrown to hell for eternal judgment.
How then can it be possible, by simple reason and logic that everyone is saved? It is an absolute lie from the devil.
And why does the devil want to do that? To deceive Christians they are forever saved and they can anyhow sin and worse, their friends and family do not need to receive Jesus. -
The truth will always be the truth. What do you want? You want people to gloss over the truth? Not that I am saying the Catholics are telling the truth or lying, because they too are simply believers) You what them to go away from the truth and come to your position? Your position comes with an iota of evidence and proof meh?Originally posted by laoda99:There have been posts by a "Catholic" who claimed that everyone are "Christians", even though they belong to and practise another religion. Even if they dun believe in Christ, they can still be saved through their own ways in their own religion.
If this doctrine is true, then the Christian concept of Hell/Paradise has to be thrown into the dustbin and the bible kept away (becoz it is so clear that those who do not believe in Christ will be condemned!) We can stop evangelising because everyone who do not believe in Christ are saved. Not just the Calvinists, but also the Arminians who do not agreed with them BELIEVED HELL IS REAL!
Furthermore, even the CATHOLICS believed in Hell for unrepentent sinners!!!! Even they believe that Christ is the only way thru Christians are saved. "Christianity" without Christ is surely not a gospel given to us by Christ and his apostles. It is the devil's lie. The devil wants u to believe that u can be saved even without Christ. Christ is taken out of the equation and the devil wants u to believe in man-made religions instead.
This is surely saddening for the state of the Church, becoz pragmatism now reigns over orthodoxy. Instead of God-centered Christianity, it has become Man-centered Christianity preached to please Man's ears. Be warned brethren, that you would stand fast to the faith and not be misled by heresies.
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I don't believe Christ is son of god or saviour nor do I believe there is Devil, so where do I go?
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\Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:I don't believe Christ is son of god or saviour nor do I believe there is Devil, so where do I go?
thats fine... you will have your answer when its your turn... -
now I know why you try to deceive Christians in your post about sex. You're not a Christian at all.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:I don't believe Christ is son of god or saviour nor do I believe there is Devil, so where do I go? -
hahaha, a bigot true and true - deceive? Only you will be deceived by your own blindness. Others won't buy your crap on sex. You are the quintessential Christian who have no ability to think but just swallow everything, gobbling up the gospels without even an ounce of brain juice. I have been thru that road and know much better from an inside perspective!Originally posted by specialOps:now I know why you try to deceive Christians in your post about sex. You're not a Christian at all.