Websites and Articles to Read
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Please post any articles and website on Christianity that you find interesting. that may not neccesarily need comments. This is to reduce the number of threads started needlessly.
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Look at the many "wants" on this JW poster. Looks like they are copying what the modern "Christian" churches are doing also, to cater to: YOUR NEEDS -
lol, to say otherwise, would be implying that God doesn't care about our needs.
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Originally posted by laoda99:
list out the 'NEEDS' for you here as in the poster
Look at the many "wants" on this JW poster. Looks like they are copying what the modern "Christian" churches are doing also, to cater to: [b]YOUR NEEDS [/b]
How can following the Christ help you to
improve family life?
deal with life's difficult problem?
draw closer to God?
oppose the Devil?
gain everlasting life?
wonder... lets do a poll here... any christian here want/need one or more from the list here....
OR
All don't want? ...
*edit to get rid of the poster here, to save on viewing space...
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sure, of course i want the answers to life's problems
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there is nothing really long with the poster per se.... other the JW label.
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I only have one purpose for the poll, and that is to say that needs of the people is not just of restricted the 'modern' churches and infact all churches should address them (if not all, at least some) as well.
lets face it and be honest, we all have our problems, our needs and we pray about them (we even help pray for others as well)
When we pray, do you believe God hears your prayers will answer your prayers? and whatever answer He gave you, do/can you believe He have your best interest at heart?
Can you anchor this confidence in the finished and completed works of Christ on the cross?
Are we then too addressing our needs (be it in our own private ways)? -
Eh, not sure if the links fall within sillyme's guidelines, but I found them rather interesting.
http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001463.cfm - Shattering Christian Stereotypes
http://www.boundless.org/2002_2003/regulars/office_hours/a0000733.html
- Can War be Justified?
http://www.boundless.org/2001/regulars/office_hours/a0000534.html - Cloud of Unbelief
http://www.boundless.org/1999/regulars/office_hours/a0000100.html - Even Without the Bible, God Speaks
http://www.boundless.org/2000/departments/theophilus/a0000410.html - The Father, The Enemy and God
http://www.boundless.org/2002_2003/regulars/office_hours/a0000655.html - Why should I believe in my belief?
http://www.boundless.org/departments/theophilus/a0000964.html
- Academic Questions -
thanks sturm....
this thread is up to a good start.
keep it up guys. -
but your spelling is longOriginally posted by Chin Eng:there is nothing really long with the poster per se.... other the JW label.
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Originally posted by sillyme:but your spelling is long my bad.... that was my ah beng side talking.
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Of coz God does,Originally posted by dumbdumb!:lol, to say otherwise, would be implying that God doesn't care about our needs.
but Christianity will be a shallow faith if everything is ABT UR NEEDS! U might as well pray to pagan gods who can give u 4D numbers!!!!
Christianity is abt God's SALVATION PLAN FOR MAN!
NOT ABT GOD SATISFYING UR NEEDS!!!!! -
Unker Vince,Originally posted by vince69:list out the 'NEEDS' for you here as in the poster
How can following the Christ help you to
improve family life?
deal with life's difficult problem?
draw closer to God?
oppose the Devil?
gain everlasting life?
wonder... lets do a poll here... any christian here want/need one or more from the list here....
OR
All don't want? ...
*edit to get rid of the poster here, to save on viewing space...
As usual,
U are torn between sound and unsound doctrine.
Man's needs/wants is different from what God wants for us.
Who dun wanna to be rich/healthy?
Who dun wanna solve life's problems?
BUT....
WILL BECOMING A CHRISTIAN GET U ALL THE THINGS U WANT, OR GET RID OF ALL YOUR PROBLEMS?
If your answer is YES, then I dun think u believe in the gospel which Christ preached. -
Christ's completed work on the cross has nothing to do with your needs. This is heretical.Originally posted by vince69:Can you anchor this confidence in the finished and completed works of Christ on the cross? -
What is the subject of this thread? U said I haven post anything yet.....Originally posted by vince69:you had already make up you mind in how you want to see things (see you own past post on this subject), there is nothing to be sensitive or defensive about, but rather meaningless to "bash my head against a wall"...
ps... you can think whatever or however you like lah...
Are u getting defensive even before I said anything?
Or unker vince, u know that prosperity churches are going the wrong way, but decided to remain blind anyway, becoz u are convinced God wants to bless every Christian and that is also the way u want it. In this way, it is worse than bashing into wall....u are bashing ur way all the way to the wrong side! This is not the gospel preached by Christ when he 1st came to us!
I have always hold u in respect together with Unker Chin Eng. The previous Elder who took me for Bible Study class I respected him a lot too, but now he has moved on to a Charismatic Church (he claimed to be a life-long Charismatic). What I do not understand is, u and him has seen a lot of wrong things in the healing and prosperity church scenes, are sensible people, well read, believe in sound doctrine and have good Christian values, but when it comes to the prosperity gospel refused to admit that there is something wrong with it! Why? Is the truth too difficult to swallow, or simply becoz the prosperity gospel is too attractive?
My BS leader has said that he moved to another church becoz he needs to know God is still working actively in his life. I presume he is saying that he is not getting this in my church, tat's why he moved on. BUT......IS GOD REALLY NOT WORKING IN OUR LIVES? On the contrary, every little thing is God's work in our lives. To claim that you can "feel" God in one church and not another is seriously wrong. God has revealed to us in his Word and we need to countercheck what we encounter in life to his Word. If it is a "feel-good" thingy believers wanted, mebbe those MLM meetings or motivation talks is more rewarding than attending a Church. Mebbe these things can satisfy your needs more than what the gospel can offer.
CHRIST DIED FOR US NOT TO GIVE US A LIFE FREE FROM ALL PROBLEMS. CHRIST DIED FOR US SO THAT WE SINNERS WHO ARE OTHERWISE ETERNALLY CONDEMNED CAN BE SAVED THRU HIM. PREACH THE WORD, NOT PREACH ABT MAN'S NEEDS. STOP PREACHING SUGAR-COATED HERESIES WHICH BRING CHRISTIANS ASTRAY.
2 Timothy 4
1In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry. -
Christ's complete work have everything to do with every aspect of my life, not just salvation.Originally posted by laoda99:Christ's completed work on the cross has nothing to do with your needs. This is heretical.
This is something I hold dear in my heart during those days of crisis in my life, its knowing that its not about my level of faith, or how good I am or have been, but its knowing that I can trust in His faithfulness and His completed works, this is what comforts me.
The phrase "In all things gives thanks" is not about giving thanks for the bad or difficult situation you are in. Its about giving thanks knowing and believing that He (Christ) had overcome all things, and He is faithful to bring you through the situation, and in Him, there is hope.
When you have a need, when you are in a difficult situation, do you pray? on what basis do you pray and God will hear your prayers if not based on His finished work on the cross? if want to based on our merits or our works or our faith, can meh? -
Yes, Christ did not say we will not have problems, but we can still trust that He is faithful to bring us out of these problems.Originally posted by laoda99:CHRIST DIED FOR US NOT TO GIVE US A LIFE FREE FROM ALL PROBLEMS. CHRIST DIED FOR US SO THAT WE SINNERS WHO ARE OTHERWISE ETERNALLY CONDEMNED CAN BE SAVED THRU HIM. PREACH THE WORD, NOT PREACH ABT MAN'S NEEDS. STOP PREACHING SUGAR-COATED HERESIES WHICH BRING CHRISTIANS ASTRAY.
Preach the word, Yes.
Preach the needs? no, but man will still have needs, and these still need to be addressed.
you see someone drowning, do you throw him a manual on how to swim? or throw a float to him?
you see someone hungry, do you preach to him? or feed him?
To me, this is just being practical... a lesson I learned from the mission field.
This one hoh... thank you, thank you... but hor... me really very bo chap one and a bit insane also.Originally posted by laoda99:I have always hold u in respect together with Unker Chin Eng.
just a little about prosperity gospel,Originally posted by laoda99:prosperity gospel refused to admit that there is something wrong with it! Why? Is the truth too difficult to swallow, or simply becoz the prosperity gospel is too attractive? .
There are few views to this, basically it says "God will fulfills all your needs" note, its needs, not wants (your wants may not be good for you).
Also another aspect to this is on the WHY? why bless you?
a) to do what He had intended for you to do lah, to be a blessing to the people around you lah, to be a becan of light in the darkness lah... else for what? hid under the bed?
b) the most important one.... because He (God) wants to, because it pleases Him
Then there is the aspect of what qualifies you to receive these gifts of grace? Its Christ's finished work on the cross (definitely not by how much we pray or nag about the needs)
Prosperity does not means have lots of money, it does means you have enough and extras that can be used as a blessing to others. -
absolutely and totally unnecessary.....Originally posted by laoda99:I have always hold u in respect together with Unker Chin Eng.
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not say I want to join in the fray and all that lah.....Originally posted by vince69:Prosperity does not means have lots of money, it does means you have enough and extras that can be used as a blessing to others.
....but from what I gather, the "Prosperity Gospel" is not about having enough, but having excesses.... unfortunately all the icons of the prosperity gospel are extremely well-off and yet they still continue to ask for more.
....at the end of the day, we can all talk about what is and what is not, but the examples that we see are not really about just having enough.
note to laoda: vince has obviously made a choice, right or wrong it is none of our business. no need to go on such an offensive lah. vince doesn't attempt to push this teaching here so let's get on with life. -
You are confusing between God's providence in your daily needs and Christ's atonement and what he has achieved for you. These are two separate things.Originally posted by vince69:Christ's complete work have everything to do with every aspect of my life, not just salvation.
This is something I hold dear in my heart during those days of crisis in my life, its knowing that its not about my level of faith, or how good I am or have been, but its knowing that I can trust in His faithfulness and His completed works, this is what comforts me.
The phrase "In all things gives thanks" is not about giving thanks for the bad or difficult situation you are in. Its about giving thanks knowing and believing that He (Christ) had overcome all things, and He is faithful to bring you through the situation, and in Him, there is hope.
When you have a need, when you are in a difficult situation, do you pray? on what basis do you pray and God will hear your prayers if not based on His finished work on the cross? if want to based on our merits or our works or our faith, can meh?
Of coz God does provide for your daily needs and that is scriptural, but the notion "What's wrong abt God satisfying man's needs?" (the teachings of putting man's needs in the focus rather than focusing on God's salvation plan for man) is heretical. It is putting truths and half-truths together, similiar to the American Pastor who said "God wants you to have great sex" by referring to God's commands that he wants us to be "fruitful and multiply".
When I have a difficult situation, of coz I pray. As someone who is sick, I have to rely on God entirely. I know that at the end of the day, all things will turn out to be better, becoz I have Christ.
Many times I have prayed, but was not healed. But I know if I die, I would be in a better place someday. This is the assurance Christ has given me, not the assurance of blessings of riches and health on Earth. -
1. Thanks for agreeing with me that Christ did not say we will not have problems. At least u are sane enuff to realise there are still sick and poor christians.
2. There is a tendency for the prosperity churches to preach blessings instead of preaching the word. I went to your church before, and this is the message I got. I partook in holy communion with promises of healing, and I did not get.
3. "YOUR NEIGHBOUR WILL ENVY U!"...this is what prosperity churches preach. Utter nonsense. God did not die on the cross to get u a better car. God did not die on the cross for u to get a bigger pay check. God did not die on the cross so that u can have better sex. God did not die on the cross so that u can be rich and your neighbour upon seeing u rich convert becoz he wants to be rich too. God is not a someone whom u can "write ur own paycheck" with (kenneth hagin said that).
4. Again, do not confuse Christ's atonement with God's providence for your daily needs. Christ did not die to give us blessings. Period.Originally posted by vince69:Yes, Christ did not say we will not have problems, but we can still trust that He is faithful to bring us out of these problems.
Preach the word, Yes.
Preach the needs? no, but man will still have needs, and these still need to be addressed.
you see someone drowning, do you throw him a manual on how to swim? or throw a float to him?
you see someone hungry, do you preach to him? or feed him?
To me, this is just being practical... a lesson I learned from the mission field.
This one hoh... thank you, thank you... but hor... me really very bo chap one and a bit insane also.
just a little about prosperity gospel,
There are few views to this, basically it says "God will fulfills all your needs" note, its needs, not wants (your wants may not be good for you).
Also another aspect to this is on the WHY? why bless you?
a) to do what He had intended for you to do lah, to be a blessing to the people around you lah, to be a becan of light in the darkness lah... else for what? hid under the bed?
b) the most important one.... because He (God) wants to, because it pleases Him
Then there is the aspect of what qualifies you to receive these gifts of grace? Its Christ's finished work on the cross (definitely not by how much we pray or nag about the needs)
Prosperity does not means have lots of money, it does means you have enough and extras that can be used as a blessing to others. -
yah lor .. they always like to say 'by his stripes you are healed' to mean all kinds of healing, especially sickness.Originally posted by laoda99:4. Again, do not confuse Christ's atonement with God's providence for your daily needs. Christ did not die to give us blessings. Period. -
I think they tend to put blessings as focus, then use the bible as supporting evidence. So you have motivational talks under the guise of 'biblical sermons'.Originally posted by laoda99:2. There is a tendency for the prosperity churches to preach blessings instead of preaching the word. I went to your church before, and this is the message I got.
Contrast with the Homily they have in Catholic churches. The Scripture, Ordinary or Mass is the focus and the speaker will be doing an exposition on them. -
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
Note taken.
note to laoda: vince has obviously made a choice, right or wrong it is none of our business. no need to go on such an offensive lah. vince doesn't attempt to push this teaching here so let's get on with life.[/b]
I do not have any grudge towards unker vince. My original ideas were to educate fellow Christians. I would stop for now if anyone finds it offensive. -
It should be more than that.Originally posted by laoda99:I do not have any grudge towards unker vince. My original ideas were to educate fellow Christians. I would stop for now if anyone finds it offensive.
You should educate non believers too.