MM Lee talks about homosexuality
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Recently our minister mentor had a lot of comments about homosexuality. In the event that homosexuality become legalised in Singapore, what should be the church's stance on this?
http://www.fridae.com/newsfeatures/article.php?articleid=1907&viewarticle=1&searchtype=all
So, is it useless then? No, I don't think it's useless. The Church says: I proclaim that this is bad. But if you do it, you will know that you are doing something which somebody in high authority have thought over and think it's wrong. You can overrule that, this is your decision, you do it. But I think in the same way we have to decide on behalf of society what is the long-term effect of this, and if you prohibit it will it work, and if it doesn't work and it is flouted, does it do harm? Which is better? - to let it run freely or say, "No", have it surreptitiously flouted at the margins - you've got to weigh the two odds. But, I mean you take this business of homosexuality. It raises tempers all over the world, and even in America. If in fact it is true, and I have asked doctors this, that you are genetically born a homosexual because that's the nature of the genetic random transmission of genes, you can't help it. So why should we criminalise it? But there's such a strong inhibition in all societies. Christianity, Islam, even the Hindu, Chinese societies and we are now confronted with a persisting aberration. But is it an aberration? It's a genetic variation. So what do we do? I think we pragmatically adjust, carry our people... don't upset them and suddenly upset their sense of propriety and right and wrong, but at the same time let's not go around like this moral police do in Malaysia, barging into people's rooms and say "khalwat". That's not our business. So, you have to take a practical, pragmatic approach to what I see is an inevitable force of time and circumstance. -
Any religion should keep their values in the private domain, and leave it out of statecraft.
The current impasse can be blamed on religious conservatives who probably have unduly influenced policymaking through the years. -
we will be opening 2 legalized gambling dens,
we already legalized prostitution
we will have f1 racing
we will be encouraging and accepting gays
we are legalizing high salaries as a means to prevent corruption and attact the "best" to become ministers so that our women do not need to be maids in other countries
we just need some violence
Its sin city alright...
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BEING HOMOSEXUAL IS AN IDIOSYNCRASY?
"They tell me and anyway it is probably half-true that homosexuals are creative writers, dancers, etcetera. And there is some biblical evidence of that and if we want creative people then we got to put up with their idiosyncrasies.''
How very insulting.
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what laoda doing in the website in the first place?
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Hate the sin but love the sinner.Originally posted by laoda99:Recently our minister mentor had a lot of comments about homosexuality. In the event that homosexuality become legalised in Singapore, what should be the church's stance on this?
You see .. many things are legalised in Singapore but still frowned upon by the church - gambling, premarital sex etc. -
Oops! I am gay-curiousOriginally posted by laurence82:what laoda doing in the website in the first place? 
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Below is a statement from National Council of Churches of Singapore (2003) on the homosexuality issue. Wonder if they are going to update this or not. Any Catholic statement on this?
http://www.nccs.org.sg/homosexuality.php
National Council of Churches of Singapore
Statement on Homosexuality
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Preamble:
There has recently been wide discussion in the press and the Internet on the issue of homosexuality with different views expressed. Christians, like other thoughtful citizens, are also concerned about this issue. We present our position below as a guide to Christians in our member churches and as our witness, as concerned citizens, to the society in which we belong.
Our stand:
1) Recognizing the Bible as the authoritative standard for its faith and practice the Church has historically and consistently held the view that the practice of homosexuality is clearly incompatible with the teachings of the Christian faith. The only sexual relationship, sanctioned by God and given as a gift from God, is between a male and a female within the bounds of a monogamous marriage.
2) Therefore, we do not condone homosexual practice and we consider homosexual lifestyle as sinful and unacceptable. However, this does not mean that we reject or despise homosexuals (homophobia). We acknowledge that every person is loved by God and we all live under the grace of God. Homosexuals should be regarded and treated no less as persons of worth and dignity.
3) The Church is called to be a caring community and a sanctuary, always extending ministry to all persons. As sinners ourselves, we are committed to the path of true freedom made possible by the grace of God and found in and through obedience to Jesus Christ. Without minimizing their struggles, the Church offers those beset with homosexual desire the same opportunity to receive God's forgiveness and fulfillment in Jesus Christ and to experience His transforming power. Not accepting homosexual practice and lifestyle must not be confused with homophobia.
4) In public debate about homosexuality scientific data have sometimes been used to support certain claims. To the layperson, science has been unsuspectingly regarded as an objective discipline and conclusions based on its findings have been assumed as irrefutable and authoritative. But that is an assumption we do not accept especially with regard to attempts to give biological explanations to homosexual inclination and behaviour. We note that there is no clear evidence that homosexuality is biologically determined.
5) Though we deem homosexual lifestyle totally unacceptable on the basis of the Bible and our faith, we believe that unless there are legitimate reasons homosexuals, as individuals, should not be discriminated against in areas such as employment. It does not follow, however, that our society should be re-ordered or allowed to evolve to the extent that eventually homosexual practice is endorsed, permitted or encouraged as an alternative lifestyle. In this regard, we urge our government to maintain:
a) current legislation concerning homosexuality;
b) its policy of not permitting the registration of homosexual societies or clubs;
c) its policy of not allowing the promotion of homosexual lifestyle and activities.
6) As churches we seek to remain faithful to our Christian faith and practice. We shall strengthen the education of our members in the teachings and practices of our faith. We are committed to serving our nation by helping to preserve and promote wholesome values and lifestyles that will contribute to the well-being of our society.
29 July 2003 -
Laoda, find for me reports of homosexuals who became straight with the help of God.
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huh?Originally posted by Icemoon:Laoda, find for me reports of homosexuals who became straight with the help of God.
Anyway, I am quite surprised MM lee says it is a genetic thing for pple to be homosexuals. I thought it is still in debate. -
Actually in the Christian worldview, it doesn't matter whether it is genetic or not. In the first place, ALL men kenna original sin.Originally posted by laoda99:huh?
Anyway, I am quite surprised MM lee says it is a genetic thing for pple to be homosexuals. I thought it is still in debate.
Most probably it is due to genetic and environmental factors .. and can be "tweaked" with the help of God. -
Without going into the help-ratings discussion about homosexuality again...is MM Lee an expert in the medical field?
And how come he involves the religions?
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But MM Lee quoted the experts in the medical field.Originally posted by laurence82:Without going into the help-ratings discussion about homosexuality again...is MM Lee an expert in the medical field?
And how come he involves the religions?
.. cos the religions are the main group opposing homosexuality. -
Recent NCCS message regarding law change causes a stir in the gay community. NCCS seems in support to outlaw lesbianism too.
http://www.methodistmessage.com/mar2007/penalcode.html
(c) We are aware that the proposed amendment to delete section 377 PC but on the other hand retaining section 377A PC may be controversial in some quarters. Nevertheless, we consider homosexual acts to be sinful, abhorrent and deviant, whether consensual or not. The NCCS commends the Government on taking a clear, unequivocal and bold stand of neither encouraging nor endorsing a homosexual lifestyle and opposing the presentation of the same as part of a mainstream way of life. At the same time, we do not condemn homosexuals as the Bible calls us to hate the sin but love the sinner. Given that section 377A PC criminalises homosexuality whether done private or publicly, we are of the view that a similar prohibition ought to be enacted in respect of lesbianism, considering that lesbianism (like homosexuality) is also abhorrent and deviant, whether consensual or not.' -
Reactions from Freecommunity Church with regards to NCCS's response here:
http://www.freecomchurch.org/resources/fcc-reach-cover.pdf
http://www.freecomchurch.org/resources/fcc-reach-memo.pdf
http://www.freecomchurch.org/resources/FCC-NCCS.pdf -
1 Corinthians 6:9 ESV
It is not genetic. Homosexuals will NEVER enter the kingdom of heaven. They are the same class as dogs(read scum), sorcerors, murderers and idolators. The fire is for them.
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
Revelation 21:8 ESV
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
Revelation 22:15 ESV
Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Leviticus 18:22-23 NIV
'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
'Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion. -
Some argued that the original gospels, do not have the word homosexuals in it.Originally posted by Skibi:It is not genetic. Homosexuals will NEVER enter the kingdom of heaven. They are the same class as dogs(read scum), sorcerors, murderers and idolators. The fire is for them.
The term homosexual was invented recently...
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And you are ... ?Originally posted by Skibi:It is not genetic. Homosexuals will NEVER enter the kingdom of heaven. They are the same class as dogs(read scum), sorcerors, murderers and idolators. The fire is for them. -
gospels got talk about homosexuality?Originally posted by mhcampboy:Some argued that the original gospels, do not have the word homosexuals in it.
The term homosexual was invented recently...
I know in the epistles .. the greek word does not mean homosexuality specifically. -
*&^$# lah.. Lau Lee's son is married to his ManDate!
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and pic of the night
a glimpse of who is LauLee's son's MANdate
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Correction, should be practicing homosexuals.Originally posted by Skibi:It is not genetic. Homosexuals will NEVER enter the kingdom of heaven. They are the same class as dogs(read scum), sorcerors, murderers and idolators. The fire is for them. -
There was a debate on the word "homosexual" as quoted by skibi.....can anyone from theological school clarify?Originally posted by Icemoon:gospels got talk about homosexuality?
I know in the epistles .. the greek word does not mean homosexuality specifically. -
Why should this have any bearing? Leave religion out of the damned state discourse.
Same goes for fundamentalists, you want religion as the basis of government? Get the hell out. We don't need people to push a relativistically flawed agenda against one that is acceptable in a logical way.
Furthermore, if you read the Reuters interview, not the YPAP one, you will realise that LKY is pro-liberalisation because he is viewing it from an economics point of view, which only serves to underline his thinking that as long as you are worth the dollar you bring onto the dinner table, we won't throw you out.
How primitive, patronising and deplorable.