The Anglican Church == the holy catholic church?
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I am not here to start a flame. However, if there is a fire, may the moderators blow it out.
My topics are usually very novel and interesting, so here is the topic for today.
Christians (Catholics and Protestants) should know what is the Apostles' Creed. Some recite it weekly, most can roughly remember what is the content.
Here is the english version of the creed:http://www.ccel.org/creeds/apostles.creed.html
Here is [part of the] chinese version which people are most familiar. If you read it in another version, kindly tell me.
1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
5. The third day he rose again from the dead:
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:
8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:
9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:
10. The forgiveness of sins:
1l. The resurrection of the body:
12. And the life everlasting. Amen.
.. contd. on next reply -
Zoom in to this line:
9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:
For those who can read basic chinese, zoom in to how the chinese translate it.
Tada!
So the Anglican Church is indeed the "holy catholic church" in the creed?
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So here comes the academic question - how come they translate catholic which should mean 'universal' to 'just'?
i.e. gong1 yi4 -> justice and righteousness
as a comparison, in the singapore pledge, gong1 zheng4 ping2 deng3 -> justice and equality
So indeed gong1 got to do with justice. -
could they actually mean ... justified? or being made just?Originally posted by Icemoon:So here comes the academic question - how come they translate catholic which should mean 'universal' to 'just'?
i.e. gong1 yi4 -> justice and righteousness
as a comparison, in the singapore pledge, gong1 zheng4 ping2 deng3 -> justice and equality
So indeed gong1 got to do with justice.
:hmm: ....
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but catholic is universal mah. why did they ignore the main translation?Originally posted by vince69:could they actually mean ... justified? or being made just?
:hmm: .... -
gong1 has a few meanings. In this case, it means public.
According to this wiki entry, gong1 is taken from tian1 xia4 wei2 gong1 for the equivalent meaning of being universal.
gong1 jiao4 hui4 was originally used on Roman Catholic churches. Later, tian1 zhu3 jiao4 was for Roman Catholic churches instead. (I think both terms are interchangeable currently).
The word gong1 remains as a word to describe universal in the creed's context. -
You are right.Originally posted by sillyme:gong1 jiao4 hui4 was originally used on Roman Catholic churches. Later, tian1 zhu3 jiao4 was for Roman Catholic churches instead. (I think both terms are interchangeable currently).
Isn't Catholic High - Gong Jiao Zhong Xue?
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sillyme .. do enlighten us on why anglican is shen4 gong1 hui4 also.
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slight correction to hanyu pinyin, it's sheng4.Originally posted by Icemoon:sillyme .. do enlighten us on why anglican is shen4 gong1 hui4 also.
Actually, I don't know why leh
But a wild guess would be that we retained the word 'gong1' since historically we were part of the Catholic See. sheng4 is probably chosen so because it means holy. -
anglicans recognised the catholic church.. but maybe do not recognised the church sovereignity over the anglicans...
tats y.. holy catholic church is not in capital letter...
just my opinion..
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Originally posted by mhcampboy:anglicans recognised the catholic church.. but maybe do not recognised the church sovereignity over the anglicans...
tats y.. holy catholic church is not in capital letter...
just my opinion.. 
The Catholic Church recognise that the Anglican Church is in partial communion with us -
Really? I didn't know this.Originally posted by ben1xy:
The Catholic Church recognise that the Anglican Church is in partial communion with us
But I do know we imported most of the stuff from the Catholic church. -
So they are the same? then why different denomination? -
I think yes, Anglican Church is indeed the "holy catholic church".Originally posted by Icemoon:Zoom in to this line:
For those who can read basic chinese, zoom in to how the chinese translate it.
Tada!
So the Anglican Church is indeed the "holy catholic church" in the creed?
Which church dun say itself is part of the holy catholic church? Unless they dun recite the apostle's creed -
Quoted from http://www.anglicancommunion.org/acc/meetings/acc13/ecumenical/ecum4.cfmOriginally posted by sillyme:Really? I didn't know this.
But I do know we imported most of the stuff from the Catholic church.
Over the past four decades, the Catholic Church and Anglican Communion have made sustained efforts to clarify and overcome the causes of our separation, seeking always to the next step which we can take towards greater communion. Five years ago, in Mississauga, Canada, Anglican and Catholic bishops took stock of what we had achieved to that point and noted that our partial communion should ‘no longer be viewed in minimal terms… but is even now a rich and life-giving, multifaceted communion.’
i remember reading this either in a book or one of the Catholic webbies. But can't seem to find it
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Every Christian is in partial Communion with rome.Originally posted by laoda99:I think yes, Anglican Church is indeed the "holy catholic church".
Which church dun say itself is part of the holy catholic church? Unless they dun recite the apostle's creed
The Anglicans DO NOT HAVE apostolic succession. They have adopted numerous protestant tendecies. Perhaps only the Anglo-Catholic factions have some hint of catholicism.
Haha Anglicanism is a religion invented so that a King can dump his wife and amrry his mistress LOL. It was not protestant at first. -
Pope Nich, u mean every Christian? Or are u referring to the Orthordox Protestant. This is one area where my knowledge is really lacking. I've read different books on the topic of Salvation outside the Catholic Church, but there's so many contradicting views even among our Cathlic theoligiansOriginally posted by Pope Nicholas:Every Christian is in partial Communion with rome.
The Anglicans DO NOT HAVE apostolic succession. They have adopted numerous protestant tendecies. Perhaps only the Anglo-Catholic factions have some hint of catholicism.
Haha Anglicanism is a religion invented so that a King can dump his wife and amrry his mistress LOL. It was not protestant at first. -
I think Anglican do have apostolic succession, but they dun recognise Rome's sovereignty.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Every Christian is in partial Communion with rome.
The Anglicans DO NOT HAVE apostolic succession. They have adopted numerous protestant tendecies. Perhaps only the Anglo-Catholic factions have some hint of catholicism.
Haha Anglicanism is a religion invented so that a King can dump his wife and amrry his mistress LOL. It was not protestant at first. -
It is good to see reconciliationOriginally posted by ben1xy:Quoted from http://www.anglicancommunion.org/acc/meetings/acc13/ecumenical/ecum4.cfm
Over the past four decades, the Catholic Church and Anglican Communion have made sustained efforts to clarify and overcome the causes of our separation, seeking always to the next step which we can take towards greater communion. Five years ago, in Mississauga, Canada, Anglican and Catholic bishops took stock of what we had achieved to that point and noted that our partial communion should ‘no longer be viewed in minimal terms… but is even now a rich and life-giving, multifaceted communion.’
i remember reading this either in a book or one of the Catholic webbies. But can't seem to find it -
Admittedly the trigger for the split was because of Henry wanting a divorce with Catherine. But I think the trigger led to a bigger issue and the divorce took a backseat.
Currently I am reading "The King's Reformation: Henry VIII and the Remaking of the English Church".
A thick book
I fall asleep reading it
But it's enlightening to read an Anglican like me.
It will take a LONG time to finish it. Hope to share some of its conmments. -
The Anglican Church didn't come from the Reformation, but actually from the renunciation of Papacy when King Henry VIII decreed the "Act of Supremacy" While they had succession, they rejected the authority of Peter and the Pope. And their succession also encompass religious and political prowess. With that being said, King Henry VIII while denying Papal authority, did not reject other articles of faith. It was only later that more reformation took place under Elizabeth.Originally posted by laoda99:I think Anglican do have apostolic succession, but they dun recognise Rome's sovereignty. -
They dont have. At first they ddi but after some King or Queen rewrote the liturgy if vanished. Furthermore they started preaching heresy decacdes after the Reformation. And lastly, they ordain women.Originally posted by laoda99:I think Anglican do have apostolic succession, but they dun recognise Rome's sovereignty.
I think in the 1800s, their apostolic succession was voided.
More importantly is the fact that they were created so that the King can amrry his mistress.....lame reason IMO. -
i agree!Originally posted by sillyme:It is good to see reconciliation -
http://www.livingstreams.org.sg/sac/info/beliefs/anglican.htmlOriginally posted by Pope Nicholas:They dont have. At first they ddi but after some King or Queen rewrote the liturgy if vanished. Furthermore they started preaching heresy decacdes after the Reformation. And lastly, they ordain women.
I think in the 1800s, their apostolic succession was voided.
More importantly is the fact that they were created so that the King can amrry his mistress.....lame reason IMO.
Apostolic Succession, the ministry of the early apostles handed down the ages is a feature in Anglican Church ministry, which includes the laying on of hands during the consecration of bishops and the ordination of priests and deacons. As stated in the Ordinal of the Alternative Service Book 1980, the duties pertaining to the three-fold order of bishop, priest, and deacon are as follows: -
Just some trivia.
Before the Anglicans separated, King Henry actually had the title 'Defender of the Faith' granted to him by Pope Leo. This came about because of an article that King Henry wrote attacking Martin Luther and defending Catholicism