Can christian buy ToTO ar?
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i dun quite get what u're saying so if my answer seems a bit vague, my apologies.Originally posted by T.Ryousuke:There r many grey area that ppl had cross the line of being good and not only buying toto. I see many case in work place, what is good deeds?
For Gray areas, you rely on your conscience. Of course it isn't such a simplistic answer. According to the Augustinian thought, we fall on something called a formed and informed conscience. You reflect, read scripture and formed your conscience. From there, u ask yourself whether whatever you're partaking in, whether it goes against your conscience. -
i am going to cheat and say that it's a bit of both.Originally posted by vince69:no arguement that deeds are and will continue to be an important facet of Christianity.
But then a question to ask
Does what you are inside (your belief), determined what you do?
OR
Does what you do, determine what you are inside (your belief)?
both sounds similar, but difference in sequence and emphasis.
let me draw an analogy. I have Christ in me right? so i strive to do good. Let's go to the other end of the spectrum. While i was doing missionary work, i was looking at all the selfless ppl around me and as i was woking alongside them, they help augment my faith even more.
if u think abt it, it's slightly like the nature vs nurture debate -
It depends on the Christian's latitude of understanding of the Bible.Originally posted by whereismyrib:The should Christian do investments?
To give an example: The Amish community in the US follows a very traditional guideline of how to live, to say, a charismatic church some where else in the states.
It goes back to my question: what is gambling? Is it wrong to buy insurance? Is insurance gambling?
It is enough to say that insurance as well as investment takes a different swing at how wealth is viewed when compared with an outright bet on a game of chance. -
i guess investment is just a studied from of speculation. where you study the odds, and make choices to lower the risks. but its still speculation/gambling isn't it?Originally posted by Icemoon:investment is different from speculation right?
its like the difference between betting on toto/4d which is just pure luck and betting on soccer or horse racing i guess.
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If I may add to the discussion.
In my opinion, there are differences between speculation and investment.
Investments requires rational thinking. The other goes against rational thinking, following the madness of crowds.
Speculation lives on hopes of quick money. Investments need time to come reap rewards.
Toto is definitely in the area of speculating. -
Moreover toto and soccer tickets are not considered assets?Originally posted by sillyme:Speculation lives on hopes of quick money. Investments need time to come reap rewards.
Toto is definitely in the area of speculating.
I mean after the draw, it is considered worthless liao. -
Ya. Both sides printed, cannot even re-use as scrap paper.Originally posted by Icemoon:Moreover toto and soccer tickets are not considered assets?
I mean after the draw, it is considered worthless liao. -
i have seen ppl use it as toothpicksOriginally posted by sillyme:Ya. Both sides printed, cannot even re-use as scrap paper. -
Crush it....crumple, rub crumpled piece of paper with both palm.Originally posted by sillyme:Ya. Both sides printed, cannot even re-use as scrap paper.
Repeat process to make sure paper is soft enough to wipe.... -
well after the cmopany goes bust the shares is worthless too.Originally posted by Icemoon:Moreover toto and soccer tickets are not considered assets?
I mean after the draw, it is considered worthless liao.
and actualy speculating isn't exactly just following the crowd either.
speed of returns sounds to be a wrong definition cos there are times for investment when its short term too. -
if the company goes bust. you are talking about risk isn't it? Well, investing and gambling both have risks, we can agree on that.Originally posted by hisoka:well after the cmopany goes bust the shares is worthless too.
and actualy speculating isn't exactly just following the crowd either.
speed of returns sounds to be a wrong definition cos there are times for investment when its short term too.
Investment is about managing assets and seeing them grow. I'm not financial savvy but the toto ticket seems to have a fastest rate of depreciation compared with other assets.
I'm not sure if toto tickets are transferable .. never buy before. -
now no time, next time when got a bit more time, open a new thread and talk about this.Originally posted by Icemoon:vince .. how do we frame your question in theological terms? 
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actually investment is about managing assets or in other terms staking your assets somewhere, some how and hope they growOriginally posted by Icemoon:if the company goes bust. you are talking about risk isn't it? Well, investing and gambling both have risks, we can agree on that.
Investment is about managing assets and seeing them grow. I'm not financial savvy but the toto ticket seems to have a fastest rate of depreciation compared with other assets.
I'm not sure if toto tickets are transferable .. never buy before.
yeha toto tickets have fast depreciation -
His pastor isnt God you know...Originally posted by Chin Eng:before shooting off your mouth again, why not check with your pastor as to what HE thinks of gambling? -
that being the case, we should not even post any questions here in EH... because we are not God either.Originally posted by shade343:His pastor isnt God you know... -
and mahjong is in bewtween hehe...Originally posted by sillyme:Investments requires rational thinking. The other goes against rational thinking, following the madness of crowds.
Speculation lives on hopes of quick money. Investments need time to come reap rewards.
Toto is definitely in the area of speculating.
it requires rational thinking to win $$
But it also gets you quick $$
btw, did i mention that i made a profit of 20$ in taiwan during CNY period? We stayed over night to play and gamble... But of course there are house rules. No mahjong after the 3rd night after CNY day... -
Investing and Gambling is 2 different things. Investing is not gambling and vice versa.Originally posted by hisoka:so christians cannot invest also? -
wah, very good argument....Originally posted by shade343:Investing and Gambling is 2 different things. Investing is not gambling and vice versa. -
Yes you already said you won money before in another thread.Originally posted by davidche:and mahjong is in bewtween hehe...
it requires rational thinking to win $$
But it also gets you quick $$
btw, did i mention that i made a profit of 20$ in taiwan during CNY period? We stayed over night to play and gamble... But of course there are house rules. No mahjong after the 3rd night after CNY day...
No comments on my part. -
yah loh.... as I'd said to him previously.... he wanna play, play lah. no need to justify to us what.Originally posted by sillyme:Yes you already said you won money before in another thread.
No comments on my part. -
Hrmm....but when we start to gamble, no matter if it is about money or anything esle "at stake" - what is it that we believe in ? Ourselves ? Chance? Luck ? GOD ?Originally posted by vince69:Hmm ... cannot fully agree with you...
Lets see ...
Playing ToTo is gambling (**addition to quantify, gambling as in ToTo, 4D, ...etc)? of course it is.. so are a lot of other things. everytime we do something that had some other things at stake, strictly speaking, we are gambling with it.
So the question then is, should a Christian gamble?
Lets explore this further, is gambling a sin? if its a sin, then very straight forward, Christian should not and must not gamble.
so is it a sin? going further, here is what an indivdual have to decide...
here is one common reasoning ..
gambling leads to greed, which leads to obsession, which leads to adiction, which leads the person away from God, and this is a sin (cause in the end, this adiction become a 'god' to the adict).
back to the question, does gambling always leads to greed? although there is a high chance of this happening, it is not necessary.
Here is my personal opinion;
To say that gambling leads to greed, is the same as saying eating leads to gluttony. The key here is moderation and self control.
(to be frank, our work and even our ministries involvement can also become an obsession which may leads our focus away from God).
Hence, here personal conviction applies
1) So is gambling permissible? probably yes. Is it benefical? most likely not.
2) Will this cause a weaker brethern to stumble? yes, there is a high chance a younger, impressionable brethern who lacks understanding and/or self control may get stumble.
so with these, let each make your own decision based on your own conviction, whether you want or you don't want to do it.
cheers ...
I wonder how do we account to God in this aspect of our life that we do ? Simply said, if we draw a monthly salary of 2k, use $2 to bet on Toto - what is it that we want out of that piece of action ? Since we profess that everything that we have belongs to God, are we sure that God wants us to use that $2 (be it not leading to greed) to gamble for a pot of larger gold ? Or are we saying that we enter into for example - a lucky draw, pray to God for us to win, and if we win, we attribute it to God's work ? Of course, we dont go to hell for all these things....but are we doing these in His glory ?
Perhaps i see the word "gamble" as "taking chances". So the itch to frown at it. When in doubt, i would rather pray and seek God for His guidance....rather than to gamble.....it reminded me of using my own flesh to do what i want.
And ...I dont quite agree that it may cause weaker brethen to stumble, but rather of the opinion, that it can cause anyone to stumble...even right from the start. And Christianity should not be based on a personal conviction but a conviction with what our Lord wants us to do. -
Then explain to me why a christian should not buy Toto?
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Buy Toto is contributing to Singapore Pools.
True or false? -
True -
true