Can christian buy ToTO ar?
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You have to get used to our unker/modOriginally posted by popikachu:so direct...
hurt me...
IMO, i understand what you say.. -
no. i dont think christian can buy toto. buying toto = gamble right?
i dont think can gamble. -
SIAO AH... buy toto... =.= Gambling = greed.
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double post
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he always liddat de?Originally posted by davidche:You have to get used to our unker/mod
IMO, i understand what you say..
then i wont visit this forum again!!! lol
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That's the problem with overzealous freaks! Who dictates that Christians cannot buy TOTO? CHin ENG? I say all Christian can buy TOTO and 4-D. There's something religions can preach but there's everything about human rights!
Of course in this forum started by a silly nick and modded by someone non the better they can say what they say is right backed by a book that not only Christianity has. But in a country and down to every individual, there is something call human rights that can never be put down.
The more i read the threads and words from the 2 nicks mentioned above the more i want to laugh. -
Why not.. just don't get obesses with it??
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are you sure you read?Originally posted by Farmerseed:That's the problem with overzealous freaks! Who dictates that Christians cannot buy TOTO? CHin ENG? I say all Christian can buy TOTO and 4-D. There's something religions can preach but there's everything about human rights!
Of course in this forum started by a silly nick and modded by someone non the better they can say what they say is right backed by a book that not only Christianity has. But in a country and down to every individual, there is something call human rights that can never be put down.
The more i read the threads and words from the 2 nicks mentioned above the more i want to laugh. -
woah. chill dude? it's getting a tad personal, no?Originally posted by Farmerseed:That's the problem with overzealous freaks! Who dictates that Christians cannot buy TOTO? CHin ENG? I say all Christian can buy TOTO and 4-D. There's something religions can preach but there's everything about human rights!
Of course in this forum started by a silly nick and modded by someone non the better they can say what they say is right backed by a book that not only Christianity has. But in a country and down to every individual, there is something call human rights that can never be put down.
The more i read the threads and words from the 2 nicks mentioned above the more i want to laugh.
actually, u're right. no one dictates that Christians cannot buy toto and 4D. What Ching Eng postulated was his view and how does that infringe human rights? people throw the word 'rights' around too cheaply these days.
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Hmm ... cannot fully agree with you...Originally posted by Chin Eng:Christian CAN buy Toto: you go to the Toto booth, cross out whatever number you want, pay the lady behind the counter and there you go.
.... but I think the question is: SHOULD Christians buy Toto? My opinion is, NO. The reason? Toto, like all forms of games involving staking in a certain amount of money is gambling.
So noah2, should Christians gamble?
Lets see ...
Playing ToTo is gambling (**addition to quantify, gambling as in ToTo, 4D, ...etc)? of course it is.. so are a lot of other things. everytime we do something that had some other things at stake, strictly speaking, we are gambling with it.
So the question then is, should a Christian gamble?
Lets explore this further, is gambling a sin? if its a sin, then very straight forward, Christian should not and must not gamble.
so is it a sin? going further, here is what an indivdual have to decide...
here is one common reasoning ..
gambling leads to greed, which leads to obsession, which leads to adiction, which leads the person away from God, and this is a sin (cause in the end, this adiction become a 'god' to the adict).
back to the question, does gambling always leads to greed? although there is a high chance of this happening, it is not necessary.
Here is my personal opinion;
To say that gambling leads to greed, is the same as saying eating leads to gluttony. The key here is moderation and self control.
(to be frank, our work and even our ministries involvement can also become an obsession which may leads our focus away from God).
Hence, here personal conviction applies
1) So is gambling permissible? probably yes. Is it benefical? most likely not.
2) Will this cause a weaker brethern to stumble? yes, there is a high chance a younger, impressionable brethern who lacks understanding and/or self control may get stumble.
so with these, let each make your own decision based on your own conviction, whether you want or you don't want to do it.
cheers ... -
my personal view falls slightly in tandem with Vince's. I bet on soccer quite often and it doesn't affect my spiritual journey. at least, i dun think it does. In retrospect, i remember during one of the european cups, i got carried away and starting betting in the hundreds. that really messed me up. i started getting edgy when i lost and it affected not only my spiritual life but my family life. Toto might seem like a harmless game and in most cases it is (i acknowledge asking my brother to buy for me quickpicks for the recent hong bao draw). However i have seen people getting carried away with Toto and 4D and it really messed up their lives. I guess, my summative view is that as long as you don't get carried away, it's fine
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so christians cannot invest also?Originally posted by Chin Eng:Christian CAN buy Toto: you go to the Toto booth, cross out whatever number you want, pay the lady behind the counter and there you go.
.... but I think the question is: SHOULD Christians buy Toto? My opinion is, NO. The reason? Toto, like all forms of games involving staking in a certain amount of money is gambling.
So noah2, should Christians gamble? -
Depends on how you view it lor. I prefer to call it investment........
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haha ... whatever you want to call it, its still a gamble ...Originally posted by :Depends on how you view it lor. I prefer to call it investment........ -
i am not trying to shoot a behind-the-horse canon but this was really what i wanted to say....Originally posted by vince69:Hmm ... cannot fully agree with you...
Lets see ...
Playing ToTo is gambling (**addition to quantify, gambling as in ToTo, 4D, ...etc)? of course it is.. so are a lot of other things. everytime we do something that had some other things at stake, strictly speaking, we are gambling with it.
So the question then is, should a Christian gamble?
Lets explore this further, is gambling a sin? if its a sin, then very straight forward, Christian should not and must not gamble.
so is it a sin? going further, here is what an indivdual have to decide...
here is one common reasoning ..
gambling leads to greed, which leads to obsession, which leads to adiction, which leads the person away from God, and this is a sin (cause in the end, this adiction become a 'god' to the adict).
back to the question, does gambling always leads to greed? although there is a high chance of this happening, it is not necessary.
Here is my personal opinion;
To say that gambling leads to greed, is the same as saying eating leads to gluttony. The key here is moderation and self control.
(to be frank, our work and even our ministries involvement can also become an obsession which may leads our focus away from God).
Hence, here personal conviction applies
1) So is gambling permissible? probably yes. Is it benefical? most likely not.
2) Will this cause a weaker brethern to stumble? yes, there is a high chance a younger, impressionable brethern who lacks understanding and/or self control may get stumble.
so with these, let each make your own decision based on your own conviction, whether you want or you don't want to do it.
cheers ... -
The should Christian do investments?Originally posted by Chin Eng:Christian CAN buy Toto: you go to the Toto booth, cross out whatever number you want, pay the lady behind the counter and there you go.
.... but I think the question is: SHOULD Christians buy Toto? My opinion is, NO. The reason? Toto, like all forms of games involving staking in a certain amount of money is gambling.
So noah2, should Christians gamble? -
You are alone in your view.Originally posted by :Depends on how you view it lor. I prefer to call it investment........
Do you see fund managers invest in toto? -
investment is different from speculation right?Originally posted by whereismyrib:The should Christian do investments? -
This is a really good point. How do we draw a line between what is investment and speculation? My uncle does investing full time and ppl seem to think of it as speculation and gambling. He even had Christians telling him that its wrong.Originally posted by Icemoon:investment is different from speculation right?
That's why i tend to sway towards Vince's arguement -
Nobody is saint.
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but that doesn't condone bad behaviour does it?Originally posted by T.Ryousuke:Nobody is saint.
i mean, the bottomline is that as Christians, we strive to do good. We can argue on the theology behind good deeds, but i think we cannot deny that deeds are an important facet of Christianity. -
There r many grey area that ppl had cross the line of being good and not only buying toto. I see many case in work place, what is good deeds?Originally posted by ben1xy:but that doesn't condone bad behaviour does it?
i mean, the bottomline is that as Christians, we strive to do good. We can argue on the theology behind good deeds, but i think we cannot deny that deeds are an important facet of Christianity. -
no arguement that deeds are and will continue to be an important facet of Christianity.Originally posted by ben1xy:but that doesn't condone bad behaviour does it?
i mean, the bottomline is that as Christians, we strive to do good. We can argue on the theology behind good deeds, but i think we cannot deny that deeds are an important facet of Christianity.
But then a question to ask
Does what you are inside (your belief), determined what you do?
OR
Does what you do, determine what you are inside (your belief)?
both sounds similar, but difference in sequence and emphasis. -
vince .. how do we frame your question in theological terms?