How did Christ save us?
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Im confused. How did Christ saved us???
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You are justified through Him. (let's leave the faith and/or works issue aside)Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Im confused. How did Christ saved us???
There is an imputation of righteousness. So through Him, you are declared righteous by God. -
But why is there such a need?Originally posted by Icemoon:You are justified through Him. (let's leave the faith and/or works issue aside)
There is an imputation of righteousness. So through Him, you are declared righteous by God. -
Har?Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:But why is there such a need?
Because all of us are sinners what! -
Who said all of us are sinners?Originally posted by Icemoon:Har?
Because all of us are sinners what!
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According to Hashem, a person is a sinner if he does not keep the law. We don't keep the laws of Hashem, hence we are sinners...Originally posted by NotFromVenus:Who said all of us are sinners? -
correction, its a person is a sinner if he failed keep the law correctly in all aspect.Originally posted by breytonhartge:According to Hashem, a person is a sinner if he does not keep the law. We don't keep the laws of Hashem, hence we are sinners... -
point noted. have we kept the law correctly in all aspects? don't think so...Originally posted by vince69:correction, its a person is a sinner if he failed keep the law correctly in all aspect. -
Then before the law was given, there were no sinners?Originally posted by breytonhartge:According to Hashem, a person is a sinner if he does not keep the law. We don't keep the laws of Hashem, hence we are sinners...
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want to hear what Paul said about this?Originally posted by Icemoon:Then before the law was given, there were no sinners?
Yes, there are sinners.
Romans 5:12-13
12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
No, their sin were not taken into account.
ever notice some pattern in time of Exodus?
That after the children of Israel left Egypt till the Ten Commandments was given, they can complaint and complaint ... and God still take care of them and no punishment? but after the Ten Commandments was given at Mt. Sinai, as soon as they complaint, Judgement follows. -
Har .. what's the point of labelling them sinners if their sins were not taken into account?Originally posted by vince69:Yes, there are sinners.
No, their sin were not taken into account.
If you are talking about transgression of the law leading to sin, then ok. But clearly sins can be committed even without the law, this is my point. -
Probably because they turned their attention to the golden calf.Originally posted by vince69:ever notice some pattern in time of Exodus?
That after the children of Israel left Egypt till the Ten Commandments was given, they can complaint and complaint ... and God still take care of them and no punishment? but after the Ten Commandments was given at Mt. Sinai, as soon as they complaint, Judgement follows.
The sin was so heinous that even Moses was implicated. Actually Moses volunteered to be implicated .. funny siah him. -
You don't sin at all from your birth up to now?Originally posted by NotFromVenus:Who said all of us are sinners? -
I agree with you on thisOriginally posted by Icemoon:Har .. what's the point of labelling them sinners if their sins were not taken into account?
If you are talking about transgression of the law leading to sin, then ok. But clearly sins can be committed even without the law, this is my point.
sinners simply means people who had sinned.
their sins were not taken into account? simply state that they are not held guilty of the crime, ie, condemnation and punishment.
can sins be committed even without the law? sure, I agree with you, just that the law is there to bring it out into the open and convict those who sinned of their sins. -
the sins in question are those that have to do with the law. So obviously before the law was given, you are not held accountable for the transgressions.Originally posted by vince69:their sins were not taken into account? simply state that they are not held guilty of the crime, ie, condemnation and punishment.
Man has been fighting with sins since day 1 from the Fall, law or no law. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:the sins in question are those that have to do with the law. So obviously before the law was given, you are not held accountable for the transgressions.
Man has been fighting with sins since day 1 from the Fall, law or no law.
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Believe in Jesus and be born again. Invite the Holy Spirit into your life. By His precious blood, we are saved. His blood cleanses us from all our sins past, present and future. Plead for His precious blood.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Im confused. How did Christ saved us??? -
This is unbiblical. Read the Old Testament. God does not want human blood to be shed - read the Akedah.Originally posted by Devils_advocate:Believe in Jesus and be born again. Invite the Holy Spirit into your life. By His precious blood, we are saved. His blood cleanses us from all our sins past, present and future. Plead for His precious blood.
In fact atonement by sacrifice is de-emphasized as the Tanakh progresses along in history. Read the messianic verses in the OT, sacrifice will resume when the Temple is rebuilt.