why would someone hate God?
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Originally posted by rane:trust me it happened b4 - the threadstarter and I were stopped discussing about religion in chit chat, moderator did not mention there is forum on religions - did not direct that christian (but he did not wanna admit he is one lah) to religious forum here. Aiyo, now then Iknow there is religious forum here on sgforums, I happened to come across!!! why moderator so like dat huh. If allow religious discussion then direct that person here lah, aiyo!!!!
I am so confused!!!!
different moderators different standards.
the one in chit chat.. standard float here and there one. -
Actually it is not possible that you don't sin. Unless you are God. By the way, the Protestants think Jesus cannot be tempted. If he cannot be tempted, where lies the value in the temptation?
All Protestants or some? One only needs to read a bit of Philip Yancey to see that that statement on Protestants probably isn't very true to begin with.
What's up with this "i-must-find-a-way-to-put-in-a-point-to-tear-down-"Protestants"-in-most-of-my-replies" vibe anyway? There are better ways to get a point across instead of some not-so-subtle baiting. -
I wasn't clear, sorry.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:All Protestants or some? One only needs to read a bit of Philip Yancey to see that that statement on Protestants probably isn't very true to begin with.
Jesus obviously allowed the devil to tempt Him, i.e. He was tempted. But He couldn't and wouldn't sin. So where lies the value of the temptation? Ever try tempting a piece of wood? -
I am not sure if there is a MODERATOR of SGforums. There are plenty of forums here in SGforums that discusses religion. Eternal Hope is only one of them.Originally posted by rane:Hello, moderator at SGForums
Thought we are not to discuss religion here. SGForums practising double standards is it???? Aiyo!!!!! Singapore and govt of singapore is promoting religious harmony. Singaporeans are given religious freedom. Hope nobody disturbs the religious peace and harmony here. Hope nobody tries to convert anyone to their religion in a subtle or forceful way(s).
Moderators - would appreciate your reply. Thanks.
Also it is not a crime to DISCUSS religion, as long as it is done respectfully.
If you have any further issues, please PM either sillyme or myself. -
Hello mir4cle,Originally posted by mir4cle:Why would ANYONE hate God? God is love..If you hate God, means you hate love?
My friend, who is a backslider, seemed to resent Christianity now. He's like "i rather go to hell than to heaven." WHY!??
I do not think we can answer for your friend. He must have went through certain life experiences that led to his current state of resentment.
I think your friend needs comfort instead of knowing the reasons why he is resenting God. -
Comfort your friend. When he has cooled down somewhat, find out his reasons for resenting God.
Nip the problem at its bud. -
God obviously is not equal to love because u don't kill off almost every people in the world just because they don't perform good enough for him. U don't send your children to hell simply becauce they do not listen to u fully as well. It is not about committing authrocities and sending to jail but something more abstract and perhaps ridiculous like making the right guess in the world of a few thousands religions. Buddhist who have been pious throughout his life still goes to hell.
BTW I don't believe u can tempt a person who is and knows he is omnipotent. And tis is more impossible when he knew it is all a trap and can forsee the future
About the TS friend, if he stop becoming a christian will u start to keep a distance from him ? If he have another belief, it may not means he is going down the wrong path. And if u ask me he rather go to hell than heaven, it may rather means he rather not kowtow under blackmail or threat. -
I think in the next world .. hell is actually heaven and heaven is the real hell.
If you have a few very pious people in hell, hell will be heaven because their piousness is infectious. When you are suffering together (like in army), your bonds will be at its strongest. In times of crisis, the true hero will emerge.
On the contrary, a few selfish bast-rds in heaven will turn the place into hell. Maybe we still have robbers up there because they are not satisfied with their own rewards. -
Originally posted by Ito_^: different moderators different standards.
the one in chit chat.. standard float here and there one. wow, really ah! Don't "play play" with her. Think i got the gender rite, it's her or him!!!! Devil, fireice?? -
Jesus do possese human nature and hence it is still possible for him to sin. He however did not as hence prove that humans too can be sinless. The Devil could tempt Adam, the image of God and hence why not God at his weakest as he now posseses human nature???Originally posted by Icemoon:I wasn't clear, sorry.
Jesus obviously allowed the devil to tempt Him, i.e. He was tempted. But He couldn't and wouldn't sin. So where lies the value of the temptation? Ever try tempting a piece of wood?
Catholics do believe that the Virgin Mary was sinless as well. -
This is heresy!Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Jesus do possese human nature and hence it is still possible for him to sin. He however did not as hence prove that humans too can be sinless. The Devil could tempt Adam, the image of God and hence why not God at his weakest as he now posseses human nature???
God cannot sin. Period.
Is Jesus Christ God? Is Mary the Mother of God? -
Jesus do possese human nature and hence it is still possible for him to sin
Which human can make the blind see, the dead rise and demons to possess pigs tat ran and drown ? -
That is not the Jewish view though... Icy correct me if I am wrong...Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Catholics do believe that the Virgin Mary was sinless as well. -
Is there a Virgin Mary in Judaism?Originally posted by breytonhartge:That is not the Jewish view though... Icy correct me if I am wrong...
In Islam yes .. -
Islam consider both Mary and Jesus to be sinless.Originally posted by Icemoon:Is there a Virgin Mary in Judaism?
In Islam yes ..
LOL i think Islam mariology is more compatible to catholicism than protestantism. -
Jesus Christ could sin thats why he was tempted in the desert and in Gethsamne. Remember jesus christ did possese human nature. But he did not sin though and hence reversed the fall which Adamn began.Originally posted by Icemoon:This is heresy!
God cannot sin. Period.
Is Jesus Christ God? Is Mary the Mother of God?
Jesus is God with human and divine nature. He can thirst and feel pain. Can God feel pain....thanks to the human nature he now do. -
So convenient. When you want human attributes, you emphasis more on the Man.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Jesus Christ could sin thats why he was tempted in the desert and in Gethsamne. Remember jesus christ did possese human nature. But he did not sin though and hence reversed the fall which Adamn began.
Jesus is God with human and divine nature. He can thirst and feel pain. Can God feel pain....thanks to the human nature he now do.
When you want godly attributes, you emphasise more on the divine.
So when someone "over-emphasize" either one, you declare them a heretic.
This was how the proto-orthodox played their cards. This was how they dealt with the adoptionists and docetists in the early years. -
Protestantism wasn't even born yet.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Islam consider both Mary and Jesus to be sinless.
LOL i think Islam mariology is more compatible to catholicism than protestantism. -
Both are emphasised equally.Originally posted by Icemoon:So convenient. When you want human attributes, you emphasis more on the Man.
When you want godly attributes, you emphasise more on the divine.
So when someone "over-emphasize" either one, you declare them a heretic.
This was how the proto-orthodox played their cards. This was how they dealt with the adoptionists and docetists in the early years. -
where got.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Both are emphasised equally.
you seem to emphasize on Jesus' human aspect (that He could sin). the prots emphasize on Jesus' divine aspect (that God could not sin).
Who am I to believe? -
I dont see how is proto-orthodox viewpoint more extreme to docetism or adoptionism.
The former preaches that matter is evil and is rather gnostic and that Christ is Spirit in an illusionary human form - pure divine nature
The later preaches that Christ only became divine after his baptism - human nature before transforming to divine.
Proto-orthodox or Nicea Christianity(correct me if i am wong), preaches that christ is god with human and divine nature.
Hence IMO, it seems to be a logical moderation of the 2 heresy. -
The prot arguments (i dont even think this is classical protestnatism) fails as if Christ was pure divine, his fastings in the desert will be meaningless as he cannot hunger. His death on the cross was painless as he can feel no pain. Christ was not in any sense human as he was purely divine......Originally posted by Icemoon:where got.
you seem to emphasize on Jesus' human aspect (that He could sin). the prots emphasize on Jesus' divine aspect (that God could not sin).
Who am I to believe? -
I wonder whether this quote may help.
"At what point, then, does Eunomius assent to the truth? When he says that the Lord Himself, being the Son of the living God, not being ashamed of His birth from the Virgin, often named Himself, in His own sayings, 'the Son of Man'? For this phrase we also allege for proof of the community of essence, because the name of Son' shows the community of nature to be equal in both cases. For as He is called the Son of Man by reason of the kindred of His flesh to her of whom He was born, so also He is conceived, surely, as the Son of God, by reason of the connection of His essence with that from which He has His existence, and this argument is the greatest weapon of the truth. For nothing so clearly points to Him Who is the mediator between God and man' (as the great Apostle called Him), as the name of Son,' equally applicable to either nature, Divine or Human. For the same Person is Son of God, and was made, in the Incarnation, Son of Man, that, by His communion with each, He might link together by Himself what were divided by nature. Now if, in becoming Son of Man, he were without participation in human nature, it would be logical to say that neither does He share in the Divine essence, though He is Son of God. But if the whole compound nature of man was in Him (for He was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin), it is surely necessary to believe that every property of the transcendent essence is also in Him, as the Word Son' claims for Him both alike--the Human in the man, but in the God the Divine." Gregory of Nyssa, Against Eunomius, 3:4 (A.D. 384).
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one man's hell is another man's heaven.
btw is this a christian forum?? -
Actually the two view could use Scripture to support their position. But of course, from our modern perspective, since we have the 'complete' canon, they are only half right.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:I dont see how is proto-orthodox viewpoint more extreme to docetism or adoptionism.
The former preaches that matter is evil and is rather gnostic and that Christ is Spirit in an illusionary human form - pure divine nature
The later preaches that Christ only became divine after his baptism - human nature before transforming to divine.
Proto-orthodox or Nicea Christianity(correct me if i am wong), preaches that christ is god with human and divine nature.
Hence IMO, it seems to be a logical moderation of the 2 heresy.
If you read academia, the field of textual criticism, Scripture is littered with traces of proto-orthodox scribes changing the originals to fit into the proto-orthodox position. So, for example, when the scribes found a verse that could lend support to the adoptionists, they change the wordings to downplay the support!
Human and divine nature is ironically the position which is most illogical. Is Christ Man or God? He is both!