Catholic have more than 1 Bible ?
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True Or False ?
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We have only one Bible....
What gave you such an impression??? -
Catholic on have one Bible, just that there are a few more books in there than the normal Protestant Bible.
cheers.
are you refering to Oral Traditions which together with the Written Bible make up the 'Words of God' ? -
hmm..which bible version is suitable?
got many version..King James, etc etc -
New International Version i thinkOriginally posted by alexkusu:hmm..which bible version is suitable?
got many version..King James, etc etc -
this is what i feel weird about catholicOriginally posted by vince69:Catholic on have one Bible, just that there are a few more books in there than the normal Protestant Bible. cheers.
are you refering to Oral Traditions which together with the Written Bible make up the 'Words of God' ?
and mother mary is just choosen to born jesus why pple still worship her as god ? -
No one worships Mary and the last one that did were disposed off as heretics.Originally posted by ghimpheng:this is what i feel weird about catholic
and mother mary is just choosen to born jesus why pple still worship her as god ?
If you call our doctrines wierd, u call every Christian prior to the Reformation especially those living in the first century as wierd.
And yes....most of our doctrines can be defended from Scripture. The few that cannot are ironically the ones u hold so dear like the Incarnation and the Canon of the Bible. -
Yea the Protestant books contain 66 books i think,Originally posted by vince69:Catholic on have one Bible, just that there are a few more books in there than the normal Protestant Bible. cheers.
are you refering to Oral Traditions which together with the Written Bible make up the 'Words of God' ?
Catholic: Church uses Sacred Tradition to intepretate Scripture
Protestant: Individual uses his own private intepretation of Scripture -
The blessed Virgin is not worshiped in the Catholic church (at least not supposed to), but she is one that is highly respected and loved (perhaps you can say like a motherly figure).Originally posted by ghimpheng:this is what i feel weird about catholic
and mother mary is just choosen to born jesus why pple still worship her as god ? -
Pope... I am refering to the three pillars of the Catholic Church lah...Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Yea the Protestant books contain 66 books i think,
Catholic: Church uses Sacred Tradition to intepretate Scripture
Protestant: Individual uses his own private intepretation of Scripture
and by Oral Traditions, I am refering to those teachings and traditions and practices that is not recorded in the Scripture but rather handed down orally.
(not talking about interpretation) -
I recall reading a Eastern Catholic argument that Tradition is not taught but lived. Its a way of life haha. Its a bit too cheem for me LOL.Originally posted by vince69:Pope... I am refering to the three pillars of the Catholic Church lah...
and by Oral Traditions, I am refering to those teachings and traditions and practices that is not recorded in the Scripture but rather handed down orally.
(not talking about interpretation) -
There are three ways traditions can be taught,Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:I recall reading a Eastern Catholic argument that Tradition is not taught but lived. Its a way of life haha. Its a bit too cheem for me LOL.
1) putting them in writtings
2) teaching/training them orally
3) by life example (by how the teacher live his/her lives, ie. discipleship)
in my opinion, its best using a combination of all three.
cheers -
Yea thats how i view it as well.Originally posted by vince69:There are three ways traditions can be taught,
1) putting them in writtings
2) teaching/training them orally
3) by life example (by how the teacher live his/her lives, ie. discipleship)
in my opinion, its best using a combination of all three.
cheers
1) Through Councillar documents, Church Fathers - Incarnation, Bible Canon
2) Through Sacred Magisteruim - Cloning, Contraception
3) Discipleship.
Well phrased Vince69!!! -
i only have one jerusalem bible.
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Thats a cool bible to have ( I could not find oneOriginally posted by Cool-gal:i only have one jerusalem bible.
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New Jerusalem Bible? This one is the Catholic Bible right?
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Yes sir, its a Catholic BibleOriginally posted by Icemoon:New Jerusalem Bible? This one is the Catholic Bible right?
Like its predecessor, the Jerusalem Bible, this version is translated "directly from the Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic." -
They must have realized the Vulgate or Douay Rheims is not as good.Originally posted by vince69:Yes sir, its a Catholic Bible
Like its predecessor, the Jerusalem Bible, this version is translated "directly from the Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic."
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I agreeOriginally posted by Icemoon:They must have realized the Vulgate or Douay Rheims is not as good.
Modern day apologist use Greek and Hebrew verse to defend doctrines.
Can anyone tell me more about the KJV only stance? -
But too bad the liturgy has its foundation in Latin. Even Aquinas wrote Summa on the basis of the Latin Bible.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:I agree
Modern day apologist use Greek and Hebrew verse to defend doctrines.
Can anyone tell me more about the KJV only stance?
The KJV only stance - Ruckmanism and Verbal Plenary Preservation - you can read more about them here: http://www.truth.sg/index.htm -
The Jerusalem Bible english damn chim.Originally posted by vince69:Yes sir, its a Catholic Bible
Like its predecessor, the Jerusalem Bible, this version is translated "directly from the Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic." -
I heard many catholics don't read their bibles so how many types or no of bibles also no use bcos not read at all. They depend on their priests to give interpretation. This also applies to Christians of all denominations who don't read their bibles and depend on pastors to give the interpretation. This is like the dark ages when the bible is not avail to commoners and the interpretation is subject to the church authorities who often abuse their power over the people's ignorance.
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I also heard of many protestants who constantly read their bibles and provide thier own private intepretation under the guide of SOLA SCRIPTURA leading to division and 36 000 denominations each contradicting the other.Originally posted by Raptured:I heard many catholics don't read their bibles so how many types or no of bibles also no use bcos not read at all. They depend on their priests to give interpretation. This also applies to Christians of all denominations who don't read their bibles and depend on pastors to give the interpretation. This is like the dark ages when the bible is not avail to commoners and the interpretation is subject to the church authorities who often abuse their power over the people's ignorance.
1) Priest do not give intepretation. It is the Church as the Body and Bride of Christ is pure and untainted and its the pillar of truth.
2) Point to me a dogma which was a result of church ignorance and manipuklation
3) The Catholic Church gave u ur bible. Whenever u read the Bible, u give explicit affirmation that the Catholic Church was pure and true in the 4th century."Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."— 2 Pet. 1-20
4) And since u have pointed out that bible was unavible to the masses due to its high cost, how is it possible for the early christians (33AD-1800AD) to read and intepretate Scripture for themselves considering most of them are illiterate.
" For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved. How then shall they call on him, in whom they have not believed? Or how shall they believe him, of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear, without a preacher?"— Rom. 10:13-14
"I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Tim. 3:15)
"For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts."— Mal. 2,7
Ur doctrine do not stand historically nor logically. -
I can only attempt to answer bcos many things I don't know. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can answer better.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:I also heard of many protestants who constantly read their bibles and provide thier own private intepretation under the guide of SOLA SCRIPTURA leading to division and 36 000 denominations each contradicting the other.
1) Priest do not give intepretation. It is the Church as the Body and Bride of Christ is pure and untainted and its the pillar of truth.
2) Point to me a dogma which was a result of church ignorance and manipuklation
3) The Catholic Church gave u ur bible. Whenever u read the Bible, u give explicit affirmation that the Catholic Church was pure and true in the 4th century.
quote:
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"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."— 2 Pet. 1-20
" For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved. How then shall they call on him, in whom they have not believed? Or how shall they believe him, of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear, without a preacher?"— Rom. 10:13-14
"I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Tim. 3:15)
"For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts."— Mal. 2,7
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4) And since u have pointed out that bible was unavible to the masses due to its high cost, how is it possible for the early christians (33AD-1800AD) to read and intepretate Scripture for themselves considering most of them are illiterate.
Ur doctrine do not stand historically nor logically.
[This message was edited by Pope Nicholas on 2007-02-05 17:22:13.]
Most of these divisions are man made and based on minor deviations like manner of baptism etc. There is nothing wrong with Sola Scriptura. People happen to read one portion of the bible and not read another and happen to concentrate on this portion. Otherwise the basic doctrine is the same and that is salvation by Jesus alone.
1) I don't understand what u mean. The priests are the leaders and if they don't give the interpretation who would? Since you say CC does not believe in Sola Scriptura?
2) Indulgences and absolution of sins and Mary worship and salvation by works etc etc.
3) The bible existed before the official catholic church.
4) It is not high cost but it was i think in Latin or something and not in the common language of the people. Also they purposely martyred those who translated the bible into English for eg. -
1) MINOR DEVIATION????? U cant even agree the nature of Christ...some reject the Trinity etc. Even some protestants hold on to Once Saved Always Saved, some to Lutherans Faith Alone, others to the Catholic, Faith and Works. A Lutheran believe in the Real Presence while the Pentecostal do not. An Anglican hold fast to Apostolic Succession while the Methodost do not. Each contradict the other. For one denomination to be right, the others have to be wrong.Originally posted by Raptured:I can only attempt to answer bcos many things I don't know. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can answer better.
Most of these divisions are man made and based on minor deviations like manner of baptism etc. There is nothing wrong with Sola Scriptura. People happen to read one portion of the bible and not read another and happen to concentrate on this portion. Otherwise the basic doctrine is the same and that is salvation by Jesus alone.
1) I don't understand what u mean. The priests are the leaders and if they don't give the interpretation who would? Since you say CC does not believe in Sola Scriptura?
2) Indulgences and absolution of sins and Mary worship and salvation by works etc etc.
3) The bible existed before the official catholic church.
4) It is not high cost but it was i think in Latin or something and not in the common language of the people. Also they purposely martyred those who translated the bible into English for eg.
2) The Church does as Christ gave the Spirit to the Church and the powers of binding and loosing to the Apostles and her successors and the KEYS to Peter. The Church does is the pillar of truth and not Scripture in 1 Tim 3:15. Furthermore, the Church will not hold on to Sola Scriptura as it is not explicitly mentioned in Scripture, it cannot explains the New Testament Canon, it was not held by any Christian till the Reformation. I dont think Christ would have left us in darkness till 1500s.
3) Catholics do not worship mary. We ask mary to intercede for us as u ask ur pastor to pray for you. Those dogmas still exist today. While the wolves in sheep clothings have abused those dogmas, the dogmas in essence is true. To make it clear, indulgence is correct but the man-made doctrine of indlugence being sold (not taught by the Church) was prevalent. you cannot blame the Church for these.
4) The Catholic Church existed since 33AD. I shall prove it to you."See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).
And hence it was the Church who selected which books were scripture and which books was heretic and burnt it. This also disproves Sola Scriptura,
St Ignatius was a student of the Apostle Peter and john and lived thru Apostolic Times and was a matry.
"[A]ll the people wondered that there should be such a difference between the unbelievers and the elect, of whom this most admirable Polycarp was one, having in our own times been an apostolic and prophetic teacher, and bishop of the Catholic Church which is in Smyrna. For every word that went out of his mouth either has been or shall yet be accomplished." Martyrdom of Polycarp, 16:2 (A.D. 155).
Polycarp was the favourite student of Apostle John.
“…to be in honour however with the Catholic Church for the ordering of ecclesiastical discipline...one to the Laodicenes, another to the Alexandrians, both forged in Paul's name to suit the heresy of Marcion, and several others, which cannot be received into the Catholic Church; for it is not fitting that gall be mixed with honey. The Epistle of Jude no doubt, and the couple bearing the name of John, are accepted by the Catholic Church...But of Arsinous, called also Valentinus, or of Militiades we receive nothing at all.” The fragment of Muratori (A.D. 177).
The Catholic Church chose which books were Scripture.
"[N]or does it consist in this, that he should again falsely imagine, as being above this [fancied being], a Pleroma at one time supposed to contain thirty, and at another time an innumerable tribe of Aeons, as these teachers who are destitute of truly divine wisdom maintain; while the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1:10,3 (A.D. 180).
St irenaus who the student of Polycarp and the hammer of the gnostics. the CC even then possesed ONE faith.
“For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago,--in the reign of Antoninus for the most part,--and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled.” Tertullian, On the Prescription Against Heretics, 22,30 (A.D. 200).
We see Church Authority.
5)The Bibles cost nearly 20yrs salary of a peasant. it took 3 yrs to copy it hand by ahnd from the monks. And the Church translated it into the many languages long before the Reformation. Show me an example where u claim the atrocity has happened. And lastly, this proves Sola Scriptura cannot work till the printing press was invented as no one had Bible.