Book Of Genesis Qustions
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what is this knowledge of good and evil that make it so deadly?
If u ask me, god always want men to be below him and act as slaves and try all means to prevent them from excelling like the case of tower of babel. It is not deadly, it is just tat god cannot take it. Adam and eve is perfectly fine and it is only god punishment after tat to be deadlyby the way, after eating this fruit, both of them realised that they are naked, and was ashamed and they hid away from God?
Tat is another silly part of the story I find it laughable myself. If they hid in leaves means it is "wrong" or "evil" to be naked but god purposely want them to be naked and walk around. Does god encourage evil in tis sense ? Doesn't eating the fruit help us in preventing us from committing tis "evil" deed ?
are they naked before they eat this fruit? why before that not ashamed and no hidding from God? -
The effect is evident after you piak piak.
Neh... as said the effect is not going to be sudden, and simply the process of disobeying, and not the fruit, will not make them aware they r naked. The fruit must have an effect as described in the bible
Just like Adam hid because he naked .. you also realize you are naked.
Oh dear .. maybe you piak second round! -
Interject a bit.Originally posted by vince69:by the way, after eating this fruit, both of them realised that they are naked, and was ashamed and they hid away from God?
are they naked before they eat this fruit? why before that not ashamed and no hidding from God?
One cannot read the Eden account without doing exegesis of the original Hebrew.
Because if the account is allegorical, the translation will most likely be a mismatch. It is easier to translate a factual account than an allegorical account.
In fact the original Hebrew is quite strange in certain places. In their attempt to make the translation flow, the translators took the liberty to change the sentence structure.
When I have time, I explain the significance of the "naked" in Eden.
Once you understand the significance of "naked" (arom in Hebrew), the Eden account will be much clearer. -
naked = evil ????Originally posted by stupidissmart:Tat is another silly part of the story I find it laughable myself. If they hid in leaves means it is "wrong" or "evil" to be naked but god purposely want them to be naked and walk around. Does god encourage evil in tis sense ? Doesn't eating the fruit help us in preventing us from committing tis "evil" deed ?
errr... we are all born naked, does this means we are all born evil? (ok ok, unless there are people born with clothes on)
its seems to occur to me that the first thing this eating does is to bring shame & guilt to them as in being ashamed of themselves, something that did not happen before the eating.
Another effect I observed is that before, its a close fellowship with God, now, they are hiding from God.
Before, they may be a loving couple, now they are blaming each other.
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appretiate if you can share more on this, ThanksOriginally posted by Icemoon:Interject a bit.
One cannot read the Eden account without doing exegesis of the original Hebrew.
Because if the account is allegorical, the translation will most likely be a mismatch. It is easier to translate a factual account than an allegorical account.
In fact the original Hebrew is quite strange in certain places. In their attempt to make the translation flow, the translators took the liberty to change the sentence structure.
When I have time, I explain the significance of the "naked" in Eden.
Once you understand the significance of "naked" (arom in Hebrew), the Eden account will be much clearer. -
God is the creator, we are His creation. That is the correct hierarchy.Originally posted by stupidissmart:If u ask me, god always want men to be below him and act as slaves and try all means to prevent them from excelling like the case of tower of babel. It is not deadly, it is just tat god cannot take it. Adam and eve is perfectly fine and it is only god punishment after tat to be deadly
As for "eyes opened", it is also allegorical. There was no sudden infusing of power. It is probably an event; Man taking "ownership" to be his own judge. -
disregard naked for a while. you need to do exegesis to understand the significance.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Neh... as said the effect is not going to be sudden, and simply the process of disobeying, and not the fruit, will not make them aware they r naked. The fruit must have an effect as described in the bible
the effect is sudden. why not?
in fact, when you are piaking .. you must be justifying in your mind that it is "right". No?
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actually, the most curious part of this Genesis account that I find is "what is Adam doing when the Sepent is conversing with Eve?" I mean he was surely there, cause Eve gave the fruit to Adam who was with her ....????
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naked = evil ????
U say they r ashame of themselves, but as u say it they r born naked and upon wat reason they r ashame of themselves
errr... we are all born naked, does this means we are all born evil? (ok ok, unless there are people born with clothes on)
its seems to occur to me that the first thing this eating does is to bring shame & guilt to them as in being ashamed of themselves, something that did not happen before the eating.
Something to do with evil perhaps ? Anyway it is senseless to me and trying to derive sense out of it seems to be futileAnother effect I observed is that before, its a close fellowship with God, now, they are hiding from God.
Loving or not no one knows. Maybe they did not bother to talk with one another at all. Close fellowship or not no one knows as well.
Before, they may be a loving couple, now they are blaming each other.God is the creator, we are His creation. That is the correct hierarchy.
The snake comment leh ? Doesn't the passage suggest tat the effect is really the same as wat the snake described ? It just seems very convenient to put everything tat does not sound right as allegorical
As for "eyes opened", it is also allegorical. There was no sudden infusing of power. It is probably an event; Man taking "ownership" to be his own judge.in fact, when you are piaking .. you must be justifying in your mind that it is "right". No?
I think everybody seems to be forgotting wat the snake say -
not just them lah, you and I also born naked one, right? so you and I are also born evil?Originally posted by stupidissmart:U say they r ashame of themselves, but as u say it they r born naked and upon wat reason they r ashame of themselves Something to do with evil perhaps ? Anyway it is senseless to me and trying to derive sense out of it seems to be futile
(hmmm.... maybe hoh ....
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piangz .... not futile ... at least I not so bored ... very bored today ... office server went down... -
I don't understand.
why is SIS harping on the snake?
I mean .. what's the bloody issue? -
the "naked" is to be taken allegorically.Originally posted by vince69:not just them lah, you and I also born naked one, right? so you and I are also born evil?
(hmmm.... maybe hoh .... )(
As in .. if you look *beyond* the context of the naked body .. you are more likely to find the message that God is telling you.
Well .. Eden wasn't meant to be a pornographic account anyway.
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Maybe need to apply literature skills?
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The snake explicitly mention wat happened after eating the fruit. The effect is knowing wat is good and evil and they use the word "eyes will be opened". Adam and eve eat the fruit and their "eyes opened". There is nothing in the passage tat suggest the snake is lying nor states tat the effect is not knowing good and evil. Even the name of the fruit is explicit enough. Wat can be more direct than "fruit from the tree of good and evil" ? They immediately cover themselves afterward shows tat there is an effect of the fruit, and not just a process whereby they disobey god.
Icemoon mention tat naked means another thing, which I do not get wat he is trying to say. Instead of simply giving vague response, why don't u just explicitly tell wat u wanna say -
crazy .. you asking me to cast pearls to swine?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Icemoon mention tat naked means another thing, which I do not get wat he is trying to say. Instead of simply giving vague response, why don't u just explicitly tell wat u wanna say -
No one says the snake is lying.Originally posted by stupidissmart:The snake explicitly mention wat happened after eating the fruit. The effect is knowing wat is good and evil and they use the word "eyes will be opened". Adam and eve eat the fruit and their "eyes opened". There is nothing in the passage tat suggest the snake is lying nor states tat the effect is not knowing good and evil. Even the name of the fruit is explicit enough. Wat can be more direct than "fruit from the tree of good and evil" ? They immediately cover themselves afterward shows tat there is an effect of the fruit, and not just a process whereby they disobey god.
In all fairness, there is nothing to suggest the nature of the fruit. Is the fruit really so powerful? Did someone before the first couple eat it and the snake witnessed the result?
On the contrary, God gave the commandment not to eat the fruit. Conceivably the snake could have heard it. Hence the snake was only "parroting" what God said.
The problem with putting all the blame on the fruit and not the process is that you are assuming the first couple were created with no knowledge of good and evil.
In short, you are saying the fuit added to their knowledge. Before that, there was no knowledge.
This is tricky, because we have not ascertained what's this thing called good and evil. You mean they didn't have anything resembling this notion before? -
A question to ponder.
Does the snake have the knowledge of good and evil? -
Actually there are clues that we should not take the account literally. Let me share with you why.
18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."
Let me test the audience - what happens after verse 18?
Is the following verse 19?So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs [i] and closed up the place with flesh.
Warning: DO NOT CHEAT! -
No one says the snake is lying.
There r 2 things tat suggest the nature of the fruit.
In all fairness, there is nothing to suggest the nature of the fruit. Is the fruit really so powerful? Did someone before the first couple eat it and the snake witnessed the result?
1) The tree where the fruit comes from. It is called the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.
2) The snake had explicitly said tat after eating the fruit, they will be like god who have the knowledge of good and evil. Tis again confirm the nature of the fruit shown in (1)
3) After they eat the fruit, their eyes open as described by the snake before. The couple had changed and suddenly felt naked is wrong and as such cover themselves with leaves.
4) In the end, god even confirm tat men have knowledge of good and evil
Genesis 3
22And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.
Note tat Man has become like god, knowing good end evil. It had already explicitly said tat men have the knowledge of good and evil when it does not have previously.
After saying all these, I still cannot believe why does people find it hard to believe the fruit give wisdom of good end evil. If u felt I am wrong, then please offer evidences to prove the literal meanign wrong. -
The fruit .. so what?Originally posted by stupidissmart:After saying all these, I still cannot believe why does people find it hard to believe the fruit give wisdom of good end evil. If u felt I am wrong, then please offer evidences to prove the literal meanign wrong.
We should be aiming for the Message rather than the account. -
I once read a book (which sold 6 mil copies) by a scientist that God is actually an alien whom created us. Uses genesis to prove his claims.Originally posted by Icemoon:The fruit .. so what?
We should be aiming for the Message rather than the account. -
nothing new lah ... this is from one of those Alien lifeform theory, remember there was another one that says Human is part of genetic experiment by aliens and that the creation of Eve from Adam's rib is said to be a proof of genetic engineering ....Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:I once read a book (which sold 6 mil copies) by a scientist that God is actually an alien whom created us. Uses genesis to prove his claims. -
The fruit .. so what?
The message is from the account. If we do not accept the account there is no message. After reading back the previous pages of tis thread so now finally people r accepting the fruit does give knowledge of good and evil.
We should be aiming for the Message rather than the account. -
hmmm.... this part of your statement is very reasonable.Originally posted by stupidissmart:The message is from the account. If we do not accept the account there is no message.
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Ok .. so you have accepted the account.Originally posted by stupidissmart:The message is from the account. If we do not accept the account there is no message. After reading back the previous pages of tis thread so now finally people r accepting the fruit does give knowledge of good and evil.
How can this knowledge help you?
Do you know what is the message behind?