Because we can choose to throw away grace and embrace sin. Look at the parable of the sheeps and the goats. Jesus chose or elected twelve, yet one of them, Judas, fell. Not all those predestined to grace persevere to the end.Originally posted by Raptured:Can I ask you did Christ die for all your sins and I mean ALL? If He died for all our sins, then how can we still think that some sin will condemn us to hell when we have asked for forgiveness?
But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. Rev 2:4-5
The parable refers to those who believe and those who don't. What happened to Judas was before Jesus died so he wasn't born again yet. Peter also sinned by rejecting and betraying Jesus so did Peter go to hell? He didn't bcos he came back to God and Jesus and was born again.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Because we can choose to throw away grace and embrace sin. Look at the parable of the sheeps and the goats. Jesus chose or elected twelve, yet one of them, Judas, fell. Not all those predestined to grace persevere to the end.
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But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. Rev 2:4-5
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It is salvation as Christ himself will remove it.Originally posted by Raptured:The parable refers to those who believe and those who don't. What happened to Judas was before Jesus died so he wasn't born again yet. Peter also sinned by rejecting and betraying Jesus so did Peter go to hell? He didn't bcos he came back to God and Jesus and was born again.
Sorry pls explain what is lampstand in this context? Lampstand is certainly not salvation but ministry.
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.Doing the will of the Father = works.
Mat 7:21
11"This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life's worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop. Luke 8Even those who believe can FALL AWAY.
Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels - Rev 3In Sardis, Jesus explained that some people received the white garment and soiled it with sin.
2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[a] rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. - Rom 5:2We rejoice in the "hope" (not the presumptuous certainty) of sharing the glory of God. If salvation is absolutely assured after accepting Jesus as Savior, why would Paul hope?
so what is your hope based on: The work of Christ? or the work of man?Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:But the Methodist, Orthodox, Lutherans and Catholics has resolved this issue already.
We hold teh same thinking. Just the manner we explain is different....semantics. This excldes the novel idea of OSAS or declaring u have been saved....We are not Guaranteed Salvation; We Hope For Salvation
I am arguing we can loose our salvation through sins and hence is never absolute.Originally posted by vince69:so what is your hope based on: The work of Christ? or the work of man?
If your hope is in Christ, then its guaranteed salvation.
If your hope is in man, then its guaranteed failure, for man on his own will not.
please go read the Apostle's creed.
Peter and Paul repented. If salvation was absolute, there is no need to repent as their sins would ahve been long forgiven.Originally posted by Raptured:Peter didn't go to hell although he sinned. Paul didn't go to hell although he sinned. The other apostles didn't go to hell altho they sinned by betraying Jesus. Do you sin? If according to your logic, you should be going to hell! Now tell me do you sin? Thanks.
you are giving too much credit to man.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:I am arguing we can loose our salvation through sins and hence is never absolute.
Man can loose salvation. Do u disagree.... It was Man who caused the Fall, we can do so again.Originally posted by vince69:you are giving too much credit to man.
the question boils down to
are you in Christ? or in this world?
so can God loose your salvation? what if God put a deposit to garantee it? or a seal to seal it?Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Man can loose salvation. Do u disagree.... It was Man who caused the Fall, we can do so again.
When u fall, u CHOOSE to be separated. Baptism creates this bod, sins destroy it, repentance restore it. If u die with sins, u go to hell and since we CHOOSE to sin, we CHOOSE to separate ourselves from him and hence we CHOOSE hell.Originally posted by vince69:so can God loose your salvation? what if God put a deposit to garantee it? or a seal to seal it?
How about God says nothing can separate you from His love?
of course man can fall, but is God big enough to catch you when you fall?