What makes believe in god in the first place?

• furb

  18 Jan 07, 21:04

  What makes you believe in god in the first place? Just wondering about the answer. So, what makes you believe god? Is it because of your parents or what? Plus, I have a few questions in mind.
  
  And, why do you believe in god till now? Well I saw a comment taken from 'what makes you to stay strong for GOd despite'
  
  

  Originally posted by ghimpheng:

  the reward of going heaven thus not going hell
  
  if the reward is taken away no 1 will trust god anymore

  and some says (and most give me an impression), if you do not believe in gods you will do to hell or something along the line. Is this fair? Look at this example, someone is going to punish you just because you do not believe in him, which is not a crime.
  
  Also, it makes me wonder, is people believing in gods because they are afraid of going to hell and they want to go to heaven?
  
  I also heard that god forgive mistakes that you have done (or something along the line) if you repent for it, is this why people believe in god just to lessen their guilt in something that they have done, so they will not go to hell? Some will say, "Yes, god will forgive you if your pray and repent for your mistake or something". Well, I can also repent for mistake without believing in god. So what makes you think there is a need for believing god?
  
  Also, there is another comment taken from 'will god forgive me'
  
  

  Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:

  If u are Catholic, go for Confession and all will be forgiven.
  
  If u are protestant, speak to ur pastor if u nid advice. If not atone for ur sins and repent.
  
  If Christ could give Peter who denied him thrice, the charge to feed His sheeps, Christ can practically forgive anyone for any sins.

  Do you seriously think your sin will be forgiven just because you confess to someone about it? Afterall the 'someone' is still a human and not like he can communicate with god or something.
  
  OK, you might be lost with all those examples in gave you all above, my point or question is:
  
  1) Is it because of whether going to hell or heaven that you believe in god in the first place? So, if there is no hell and heaven, will you still believe in god?
  
  2) What is believing in god to you in the first place or what is god to you in the first place? is it a way to reassure your sins to be forgiven or a ticket to go to heaven that makes you believe in god?
  
  Oh yes, don't give me crap (afraid have to use this word) from the bible that why we should believe in god or so. Don't cut and paste from the bible to answer the questions I've ask. That means nothing if taken from the bible, use your own heart (or brain) to answer it.
  
  If you ask me why can't we do that? I ask you who are you worshipping? The god or the bible? Why don't you just buy a few bibles and start worshipping it, if you going to answer all questions people give you with answers from bible. Makes me wonder, when people ask them questions they will say "the bible says that ... " Is bible the god or the god is god?
  
  Lastly, I want to ask you all again, What makes you believe in god in the first place? Why do you even believe in god in the first place? Why do you still believe in it till now? Think about all this question I've asked.
  
  Note: I'm not trying to oppose god or something, I just wondering why people believe in god in the first place after seeing topics in this forum. OK, personally I do not believe in god, if you ask me why, I ask you why should I in the first place? This is why I created this thread to know why do each of you all believe in god in the first place and what makes you believe in it.
• Icemoon

  18 Jan 07, 21:34

  Originally posted by furb:

  Lastly, I want to ask you all again, What makes you believe in god in the first place? Why do you even believe in god in the first place? Why do you still believe in it till now? Think about all this question I've asked.

  Let me give you the shortest possible answer in the world -
  
  Credo consolans.
  
  
• Cool-gal

  19 Jan 07, 00:39

  the assurance n miracles.
• Chin Eng

  19 Jan 07, 07:14

  Originally posted by furb:

  1) Is it because of whether going to hell or heaven that you believe in god in the first place? So, if there is no hell and heaven, will you still believe in god?
  
  2) What is believing in god to you in the first place or what is god to you in the first place? is it a way to reassure your sins to be forgiven or a ticket to go to heaven that makes you believe in god?
  

  Yes it is a very confusing opening thread. However I will attempt the two actual questions asked, from a personal standpoint:
  
  1. Neither, I believe in God because I believe He exist. Heaven and hell matters very little to me. I don't believe it was even mentioned when I accepted Christ.
  
  2. God is the supreme being. He created me, He loved me and He died for me on the Cross as Jesus Christ.... again it has neither to do with my sins nor a ticket to heaven.
  
  I have asked myself this before: what if God found me unworthy at the end of my journey. Would I do it all over again? Yes, I would. Not for gain or reward will I serve the Lord.
• stupidissmart

  19 Jan 07, 09:09

  I think the environment tat an individual was bought up was significant in wat u r going to believe in. If, as a child, u r already bought up in an environemnt where everybody tell u god exists, u will believe in god as u grow up. If as a child, u r not taught anything about god and u learn and interact with everyday life "godlessly", u will find the whole idea of god ridiculous as it is completely different from wat u see and experience. As such, u will find tat it is amazing so many people believe in incredulous things tat u will not see in everyday life.
  
  If u do not fall under tis 2 cat, then the idea of heaven and hell becomes important for someone to start believing in christainity. Tis fact is reiterated at least twenty, thirty times, (heck, maybe a 100 times) in the bible and it is always illustrated as why u should start believing in christainity. Tat is why it is no wonder there r people who view christainity as a 4D god whose purpose in their lives is simply to give them an unfair advantage
  
  And based on my experience, talking about facts, figures or evidence meant little. They already believe in something and reject all facts and evidence tat prove them contrary. They however will embrace and propagate evidence which they think reinforce their belief. Tis is true even if their supported evidence is already rejected outright before. An example is no matter how many times u explain the word "theory" in the scientific field means it is a trial and tested and sceintist treat it as fact, there will always be ignorant people who say tat "theory" is no better than "conspiracy theory"
• SumOne

  19 Jan 07, 12:39

  SIS, you are doing it again. Oh well.
  
  

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  I think the environment tat an individual was bought up was significant in wat u r going to believe in. If, as a child, u r already bought up in an environemnt where everybody tell u god exists, u will believe in god as u grow up. If as a child, u r not taught anything about god and u learn and interact with everyday life "godlessly", u will find the whole idea of god ridiculous as it is completely different from wat u see and experience. As such, u will find tat it is amazing so many people believe in incredulous things tat u will not see in everyday life.

  Maybe I remembered wrongly, but you mentioned before that when you were young you used to be brought to churches and all. So you're proof in itself that this statement is not necessarily true. Unless you want to say whatever you said last time were lies.
  
  To add to to that, there are people who are brought up as non-christians, but they chose to become christians later on. Which further adds to the lack of truth in your statement. I hope you're not going to say something like,"Such people are easily brainwashed in the first place." Or ,"Such people are dumb, that's why they can be made to believe in Christianity."
  
  

  If u do not fall under tis 2 cat, then the idea of heaven and hell becomes important for someone to start believing in christainity. Tis fact is reiterated at least twenty, thirty times, (heck, maybe a 100 times) in the bible and it is always illustrated as why u should start believing in christainity. Tat is why it is no wonder there r people who view christainity as a 4D god whose purpose in their lives is simply to give them an unfair advantage

  
  
  Ha ha ha. Unfair advantage? Man, what a riot.
  
  

  And based on my experience, talking about facts, figures or evidence meant little. They already believe in something and reject all facts and evidence tat prove them contrary. [color]They however will embrace and propagate evidence which they think reinforce their belief. [/color]Tis is true even if their supported evidence is already rejected outright before. An example is no matter how many times u explain the word "theory" in the scientific field means it is a trial and tested and sceintist treat it as fact, there will always be ignorant people who say tat "theory" is no better than "conspiracy theory"

  As it is with some anti-religionists (I do not use the term atheists here). So what's your point? Everyone chooses what they want to believe.
  
  Talk about sweeping statements. SIS, you once again have shown why you have the reputation you have.
• SumOne

  19 Jan 07, 12:42

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  If u do not fall under tis 2 cat, then the idea of heaven and hell becomes important for someone to start believing in christainity. Tis fact is reiterated at least twenty, thirty times, (heck, maybe a 100 times) in the bible and it is always illustrated as why u should start believing in christainity. Tat is why it is no wonder there r people who view christainity as a 4D god whose purpose in their lives is simply to give them an unfair advantage
  
  And based on my experience, talking about facts, figures or evidence meant little. They already believe in something and reject all facts and evidence tat prove them contrary. They however will embrace and propagate evidence which they think reinforce their belief. Tis is true even if their supported evidence is already rejected outright before. An example is no matter how many times u explain the word "theory" in the scientific field means it is a trial and tested and sceintist treat it as fact, there will always be ignorant people who say tat "theory" is no better than "conspiracy theory"

  There you go again, anybody who doesn't believe the same as you is a mindless, stupid, ignorant bigot. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is dumb. Grow up SIS.
• SumOne

  19 Jan 07, 12:43

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  I think the environment tat an individual was bought up was significant in wat u r going to believe in. If, as a child, u r already bought up in an environemnt where everybody tell u god exists, u will believe in god as u grow up. If as a child, u r not taught anything about god and u learn and interact with everyday life "godlessly", u will find the whole idea of god ridiculous as it is completely different from wat u see and experience. As such, u will find tat it is amazing so many people believe in incredulous things tat u will not see in everyday life.
  
  If u do not fall under tis 2 cat, then the idea of heaven and hell becomes important for someone to start believing in christainity. Tis fact is reiterated at least twenty, thirty times, (heck, maybe a 100 times) in the bible and it is always illustrated as why u should start believing in christainity. Tat is why it is no wonder there r people who view christainity as a 4D god whose purpose in their lives is simply to give them an unfair advantage
  
  And based on my experience, talking about facts, figures or evidence meant little. They already believe in something and reject all facts and evidence tat prove them contrary. They however will embrace and propagate evidence which they think reinforce their belief. Tis is true even if their supported evidence is already rejected outright before. An example is no matter how many times u explain the word "theory" in the scientific field means it is a trial and tested and sceintist treat it as fact, there will always be ignorant people who say tat "theory" is no better than "conspiracy theory"

  It is so ironic that you attack Christians for lack of objectivity, yet you made statements like there. Very ironic indeed.
• SumOne

  19 Jan 07, 12:52

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  I think the environment tat an individual was bought up was significant in wat u r going to believe in. If, as a child, u r already bought up in an environemnt where everybody tell u god exists, u will believe in god as u grow up. If as a child, u r not taught anything about god and u learn and interact with everyday life "godlessly", u will find the whole idea of god ridiculous as it is completely different from wat u see and experience. As such, u will find tat it is amazing so many people believe in incredulous things tat u will not see in everyday life.

  Like how some people believe that any and every person who believes in religion is an idiot.
  
  

  If u do not fall under tis 2 cat, then the idea of heaven and hell becomes important for someone to start believing in christainity. Tis fact is reiterated at least twenty, thirty times, (heck, maybe a 100 times) in the bible and it is always illustrated as why u should start believing in christainity. [/quote]
  
  I think a lot of other christians have given you reasons to be christians other than the heaven and hell reason. Just like in the post above yours. You just chose to happily ignore such posts.
  

  Tat is why it is no wonder there r people who view christainity as a 4D god whose purpose in their lives is simply to give them an unfair advantage

  Again you show why you have such a poor understanding of what Christianity is about.
  
  

  And based on my experience, talking about facts, figures or evidence meant little. They already believe in something and reject all facts and evidence tat prove them contrary.

  Like how brush aside all Christians as mindless, brainwashed simpletons. And no matter how many times people show you that isn't so (and it's a fact), you will always continue to believe in something and reject everyone that tells you otherwise.
  

  [quote]They however will embrace and propagate evidence which they think reinforce their belief. Tis is true even if their supported evidence is already rejected outright before. An example is no matter how many times u explain the word "theory" in the scientific field means it is a trial and tested and sceintist treat it as fact, there will always be ignorant people who say tat "theory" is no better than "conspiracy theory"

  Like I said, I find anti-religionists do this if you ask me, maybe it's more human nature than anything? Of course you will choose to believe that all Christians are wrong and that they are all arrogant bigots. Which is kind of funny considering your tone and how you always talk down to Christians.
• Chin Eng

  19 Jan 07, 13:05

  hmmm....
  
  as a child I was
  1. Not taught that god exists. I was born into a taoist/buddhist rojak family. My parents never insist that I follow them to temples.
  2. Never interested in any religion, Christianity included.
  
  strangely, I also never gave a thought to heaven and earth and hell.
  
  also strangely, back in those days, there is no such thing as wealth and health gospel; neither was there any message of believe-in-God-and-you-will-succeed-gospel.
  
  I did not become a Christian because of a childhood brain-washed-environment nor was it because I fear eternal punishment, nor was it because of eternal wealth. I become a Christian because God is God.
  
  I still hold to that belief.
  
• Icemoon

  19 Jan 07, 13:54

  Originally posted by SumOne:

  There you go again, anybody who doesn't believe the same as you is a mindless, stupid, ignorant bigot. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is dumb. Grow up SIS.

  Religion can be detrimental to scientific progress; this is one point raised by SIS.
  
  Furthermore, as can be seen in the creation vs evolution debate, it is the creationist side that has the agenda. Their methodology is not scientific.
• Icemoon

  19 Jan 07, 14:01

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  If u do not fall under tis 2 cat, then the idea of heaven and hell becomes important for someone to start believing in christainity. Tis fact is reiterated at least twenty, thirty times, (heck, maybe a 100 times) in the bible and it is always illustrated as why u should start believing in christainity.

  Your assessment certainly has the element of truth in it.
  
  Indeed, there is no denial that most people then thought Jesus would come back soon, and usher in a new heaven and new Earth. So your assessment in this respect is correct.
• stupidissmart

  19 Jan 07, 16:25

  To SumOne... I think tat it will be better for u to condense all your replies into 1 reply so it is an easier read.
  
  

  Maybe I remembered wrongly, but you mentioned before that when you were young you used to be brought to churches and all. So you're proof in itself that this statement is not necessarily true. Unless you want to say whatever you said last time were lies.

  About going to churches and all... I don't believe I had said tat. I can only say I got go to churches on a few occasions during my JC times which my friends have asked me to go as well as being in a Catholic Secondary school for 4 years. However I am brought up being "godless" till secondary school and do not know wat is the difference between christian and others etc untill after U. U may find it is funny tat I do not think of religion in secondary school but it is really true since being "godless" I cannot appreciate wat religion is about and the tales being told sounds really foreign to me. Furthermore I am a video gamer and spend a lot of time playing games and nothing else . It is only when a few people knock on the door and asking me to convert then I realise tat there r people who really believe in it !
  
  If u have heard other tales about me, then I can assure u it is wrong
  
  

  To add to to that, there are people who are brought up as non-christians, but they chose to become christians later on. Which further adds to the lack of truth in your statement. I hope you're not going to say something like,"Such people are easily brainwashed in the first place." Or ,"Such people are dumb, that's why they can be made to believe in Christianity."

  Tat is true, but one of the messages they receive is on the aspect of eternal life. I did not say that these people r stupid etc, but eternal life is one of the core messages and reason for the belief of christianity. If u see the banner outside chruches (if there is any) surely one of them mention eternal life
  
  

  Ha ha ha. Unfair advantage? Man, what a riot

  Look at city harvest and all those properity gospel and u will know tat wat I have said is right
  
  

  As it is with some anti-religionists (I do not use the term atheists here). So what's your point? Everyone chooses what they want to believe.

  True. But I can say wat I felt isn't it ? At least I don't go around and just perform personal attacks just because we sit on different side of the fence.
  
  

  I think a lot of other christians have given you reasons to be christians other than the heaven and hell reason. Just like in the post above yours. You just chose to happily ignore such posts.

  There r 3 replies, the first one, sadly, I do not know and do not want to find out (sorry icemoon). The second one do touch on the word "assurance?" and for chin eng, he may not believe for heaven and hell but my point tat there r many people who believe in christianity because of heaven and hell is not far from the truth
  
  

  as a child I was
  1. Not taught that god exists. I was born into a taoist/buddhist rojak family. My parents never insist that I follow them to temples.
  2. Never interested in any religion, Christianity included.
  
  strangely, I also never gave a thought to heaven and earth and hell.
  
  also strangely, back in those days, there is no such thing as wealth and health gospel; neither was there any message of believe-in-God-and-you-will-succeed-gospel.
  
  I did not become a Christian because of a childhood brain-washed-environment nor was it because I fear eternal punishment, nor was it because of eternal wealth. I become a Christian because God is God.
  
  I still hold to that belief.

  Why not Islam or buddhist or other religion ? I ask tis because there seems to be a lack of info on why u become christian... At least your answer beg more questions than answering anything...
  
  
• davidche

  19 Jan 07, 21:19

  Arguement from creation
  based on the law of causality,which says that every limited thing is caused by something other than itself. there are two different forms of arguements for this. 1. Universe needs a first cause 2.the universe needs a cause right now to continue existing.
  
  1. Universe was caused at the beginning.
  This argument says that the universe is limited in that it had a beginning and this was caused by something beyond the universe.
  
  -the universe had a beginning.
  -anything that has a beginning must have been caused by something else.
  -therefore, the universe was caused by God
  
  In order to avoid this conclusion, some people say that universe is eternal.
  There are two ways to answer this question.
  
  scientific: big bang theory, secondlaw of thermodynamics, saying that the universe is running out of usable energy. But if it was running down, ity would not be eternal. somthing that is winding down has to be wound up.
  philosophical: Time cannot go back to the past forever. You see it is impossible to pass through an infinite series of moments. Time is real and each moment that passes uses up real time that we can go back to. you can never finsh an infonite series of real things. If the past is infinite, (if the universe has always exist without a beginning) then we have never could pass through time to get to today. if the world never had a beginning, then we could not have reached today.: so time must have began in a particular time in the past and today has come at a definite time since then. therefore the world is a finite event and needs a cause for beginning.
  
  The second form of arguement.
  The universe needs a cause for its contuinuing existence. after it has come to beginning it is continuing and conserving its existence in the present.
  Terms:
  - Finite, changing things exist.
  - Ever finite, changing thing must be caused by something else. If iot is limited and it changes, then it cannot be sth that exists independently. if it exists independently, it would have always existed withought ever changing.
  -There must be a first uncased cause of every finite changing things that exist.
  
  and then there is: arguement from design,.. moral law,.. and being.
• Chin Eng

  19 Jan 07, 22:07

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  for chin eng, he may not believe for heaven and hell

  I did not say I did not believe in heaven and hell,
  I said I did not give a thought to it. Just a point of clarification.
• Icemoon

  19 Jan 07, 23:12

  did you people read that?
  
  SIS's zhen1 qing2 gao4 bai2!
  
  
• laurence82

  19 Jan 07, 23:29

  casualty or causalty?
  
  
• NotFromVenus

  19 Jan 07, 23:34

  Read my siggy , everybody will be there
  
  all dogs go to heaven
• Icemoon

  19 Jan 07, 23:42

  Originally posted by laurence82:

  casualty or causalty?
  
  

  causality.
• davidche

  20 Jan 07, 11:38

  Originally posted by laurence82:

  casualty or causalty?
  
  

  [list=]
  
  edited[/list]
• NewAge

  20 Jan 07, 11:42

  when u cant believe in yrself u belief in god
• davidche

  20 Jan 07, 11:44

  wei, no one read my post issit? i spent so much time typing leh....
• sillyme

  20 Jan 07, 13:06

  Originally posted by davidche:

  wei, no one read my post issit? i spent so much time typing leh....

  I believe it's "out of topic". They are not talking about how the universe is created.
• Chin Eng

  20 Jan 07, 13:58

  Originally posted by davidche:

  wei, no one read my post issit? i spent so much time typing leh....

  quite thick skin hor? as sillyme said, it was totally OOT!
• Pope Nicholas

  20 Jan 07, 14:27

  Eistein belived in God....
  
  Physics helps us understand His nature.