What's wrong with going to hell? - discuss
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when Hashem talks about the law, He talks about the whole of the Torah, there is no where that it is said that Hashem has voided the Torah.Originally posted by Icemoon:Your understanding of the "10 commandments" is flawed.
For example, any subsequent reference to the laws or commandments cannot possibly be referring to the "10 commandments". So you cannot show that they are implemented. -
Huh?Originally posted by breytonhartge:when Hashem talks about the law, He talks about the whole of the Torah, there is not where that it is said that Hashem has voided the Torah.
So we are talking about the "10 commandments" or the law now? -
I disagree, we are under grace not law.Originally posted by breytonhartge:goyim who accept Yeshua are under the 10 commandments. So is any one who wants to be part of Hashem.
now, do we follow the commandments and do what is right? of course, you are even greatly encouraged to do so.
for us who are in Christ, our salvation is solely and fully based on the works of Christ, not our works.
Does this means we can go around committing sin? of course not, for us who are in Christ, though we may commit sin, its had become an unnatural act, like what the Apostle Paul lamented, that those things he do not want to do, he ended up doing them. Who then can deliver us? Thanks be to God, the answer is Christ. Because we are in Christ, when we fell, we fell in Christ.
Does this means we can ignore God's commandments? of course not, but knowing that on our own, we cannot, we need to rely on Christ to enable us, to put the desire in us, to help us, to bring us through.... Its all about Christ. Hence I put it up that, there is nothing to boast about.
If our salvation is assured in Christ, why do we still do all these? its precisely this, that we want to follow the commandments and do the right things, to do charity ..etc, first its out of the abundance of God's grace and second to be a living testamony of His love, kindness, beauty and grace.
cheers. -
10 commandments are part of the Torah. As a whole.Originally posted by Icemoon:Huh?
So we are talking about the "10 commandments" or the law now? -
vince let me repharse,
even as goyim, when we accept Yeshua, we accecpt the Torah as well. It is part of Hashem and part of His way for His people. It is our privilege to accept Torah. -
you are suggesting Christians (who, by definition, have accepted Hashem) need to follow ALL the commandments?Originally posted by breytonhartge:10 commandments are part of the Torah. As a whole.
Because you said gentiles who accepted Hashem are under the 10 commandments. My impression is that you are suggesting they are under those 10 only. -
It's in the bible somewhere that says this. I think it's by Apostle John. Not me. As I said, somebody could be reading a portion of scripture but not read others so they are still true but incomplete. Anyway, apostasy will be the end times' theme. Many people will even fall away from the truth. But I think like you say they don't have the Spirit and are not saved. No denomination is perfect so no one denomination has the whole truth.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:This stance pose a major hindrance to your position.
Saved have the Spirit
Only those who possese the grace of salvation will be granted the Holy Spirit to guide them to all Truth. All those who do not possese thi Truth, are not saved.
Lead them to all Truth
Hence all those who are saved must possese ONE doctrinal truth as the Spirit is absolute and so is Truth. This means only one denomination or a group odf Christians with similiar doctrines will be saved as the rest contradicts its doctrines.
By your logic, only 1 denomination possese the way of salvation and the rest are hindrance as it runs counter to the Truth found in that denomination. To give u a better position, only this particular denomination will possese the fullness of salvation while the rest possese imperfect means,
Is this your position...do u have any idea which Church hold that viewpt...... -
Amen. By grace are we saved thru faith.Originally posted by vince69:please read your quotes again
1) The Jews were cut off because of their unbelieved (not lack of faith, not lack of good works), But the believers were there because of their faith (faith in what: Christ or works?)
2) continue on, severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, in this context, who are those that fell? is Paul not refering to those that fell because of their unbelief? and kindness to you (believers) ?
3) now, who are those that will be cut off? is Paul talking about faith and believe in Christ? or those that lacks good works?
I put it to you, the Jews (even those that do not believed in Christ) are doing a much better job in doing good works and following the commandments tha the Gentile Christians, yet, its not their lack of good works that they are being cut off.
so its dependant on works, the Jews won't have been cut off, its lack of believe in the finished work of Christ.
Hence, its not lack of works but lack of believe.
Its remains in Christ totally dependant on the grace of God
or
Its remains in unbelief dependant on the work of man.
NOTE: do not dispise the Jews, for if we gentile believers (wild vine) can be grafted in because of our faith in Christ, it would be even much more easier for God to graft them (natural vine) back if they were to turn back and believed.
cheers. -
The fastest way to gain the whole truth is to throw away what the church teaches and read the bible for yourself. Why accept the fallible teachings of mortals when you can have God guide you himself?
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Hell is not funny or comfortable. But he doesn't know what he is talking about.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:My freethinker friend thinks there's nothing wrong with going to hell. He says, "Good what, can go there and lose weight by burning fats."
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my answer to you hereOriginally posted by Skibi:The fastest way to gain the whole truth is to throw away what the church teaches and read the bible for yourself. Why accept the fallible teachings of mortals when you can have God guide you himself?
http://bibleroots.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=235683&page=1
and if you want further discussion, you can start a new discussion thread with the correct subject line, rather than repeat yourself. -
I find it ironic for 2 reasons.Originally posted by Skibi:The fastest way to gain the whole truth is to throw away what the church teaches and read the bible for yourself. Why accept the fallible teachings of mortals when you can have God guide you himself?
1) If the teachings of a Council filled with all the bishops in the world is fallible, wat more is ur equally Man-Made intepretation? Urs and thiers are both mortal intepretation of Scripture. Are u infallible?
2) Didnt Jesus built a Church and tell us that it resolves doctrinal dispute and is the PILLAR OF TRUTH. Church not Bible (which is created by the Church) is the pillar of Truth. U are not being very scripturial wif ur doctrines as well...."If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. - Matthew 18
The Church is clearly the last and final authroity on dispute.But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth. - 1 Tim 3:15
A Scriptural reply to wad u said: "The fastest way to gain the whole truth is to throw away what the church teaches" -
What's wrong with going to hell? - discuss
It's very hot down there