What's wrong with going to hell? - discuss
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Originally posted by Ito_^:u wish. its more like getting raped by demons obsessed with bondaged roasted over a bbq pit for all of eternity.
u into sm ar?
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Brey .. you know the Jewish view of hell, don't you?Originally posted by breytonhartge:actually will hell exist forever?
God never intends people to go to hell. -
yes, i do.Originally posted by Icemoon:Brey .. you know the Jewish view of hell, don't you?
God never intends people to go to hell.
true. -
and there is purgatory.Originally posted by breytonhartge:yes, i do.
true.
Catholics will be elated to hear this. -
but I do not believe in purgatory...Originally posted by Icemoon:and there is purgatory.
Catholics will be elated to hear this. 
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I'm not sure which Jewish sage say there is purgatory.Originally posted by breytonhartge:but I do not believe in purgatory...
If it is from the Oral Torah, then it is as binding as the Written Torah. -
You might have read it here. http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=220188Originally posted by vince69:I think he is just using your siggy to put forward a point, but somehow I find his argument about 'Judas going to hell to fight Satan' familiar, like I come across this somewhere else, just that I can't seems to figure out where I heard/read this before
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Compare...
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
God wants us to chase after these rewards. He wants to reward us!
Will a father be pissed if his son looks forward to a reward for performing well in school? Or would the father be even more pleased and eager to reward his son?Originally posted by Gauze:
Dumbdumb is correct, but the point is missed. The key word is hankering after rewards. God is just and will reward everyone fairly according to his actions.
Be not as servants who serve the master
on condition of receiving a reward;
Be rather as servants who serve the master without condition of receiving a reward;
And let the fear of heaven be upon you.
- Pirkei Avot 1:3Revelation 22:12 NIV
However the issue is hankering after rewards which are not deserved in God's eyes.
"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.
Many christians believe that salvation is free and the act of merely believing in God will enable them to enter the kingdom of heaven. This is wrong as good deeds are essential. However even more important that good deeds is the attitude of the person. Does he perform his good deeds and expect immediate reward, and if no reward or even suffering comes his way he gets discouraged? Rather the one that does not expect any reward but trusts that God is fair will be the most blessed as mentioned by Pirkei Avot.
i.e serve God with the condition of going to heaven = wrong
serve God without any condition but trusts that God is fair = right -
im sure there are verses that point to Jesus's perspection of hell....Originally posted by Icemoon:The world doesn't include everyone. It refers to the selected few. Because in verse 17, it says God send His Son to save the world. But we know it is not possible the whole world (everyone) can be saved.
the way i think:
He gave his son(salvation) to the world as in everyone.
The difference is whether one reaches out and take it.
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Will God's will not be done?Originally posted by davidche:the way i think:
He gave his son(salvation) to the world as in everyone.
The difference is whether one reaches out and take it.
God sends His Son to save the world, the plan is already there; Jesus is only here to be executed according to the plan (sounds like a pun hor?).
God's will has been "set" in the covenant of redemption. It is not "let's send Jesus and see how many people will respond".
Makes sense?
Edit: If the world refers to everyone, then God has failed miserably. -
God needs us...thats why he created us...Originally posted by dumbdumb!:Nothing is for God's sake. God don't need us. He is God, He is the Independant One. It's not a favour we're doing for God to receive salvation.
It's the opposite. We need God in our lives, we need grace, we need real joy, we need real direction, we need real peace. And God knew all these, and died for us. So we can be with Him.
LOL
Techincally, if human cease to believe in the existence of God, he naturally will cease to exist. -
even technically, your statement is wrong a Christian's perspective, be it Prostestant or Catholic, cause God exist before human even exist, hence the existance of God does not depends on the belief of man. However, the other way is true, the existance of human depends on God.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:God needs us...thats why he created us... LOL
Techincally, if human cease to believe in the existence of God, he naturally will cease to exist. -
*shakes head* .. the heretical Mr Pope.
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har? God's existence isnt determined by our beliefs what...Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Techincally, if human cease to believe in the existence of God, he naturally will cease to exist. -
Originally posted by vince69:
yes, i shouldnt label him.
[b]
Brothers,
I think the word 'cult' seems a bit too strong, much that I disagree with him (actually not sure of this also, cause never met in person before), till we are really know Skibi's stand for sure, personally, I feel its not good to anyhow label him with this.
peace ...
[b]
i am very peaceful one....
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Hey, unker Chin Eng, Skibi might be the pseudonym of Hellboy and you just made him angry...Originally posted by Chin Eng:Where in the Bible that is stated that God demanded that you descend to hell to do battle with the 7,405,926 demons of hell and their master Satan?
Where in the Bible that is stated that Judas Iscariot was the first?
Who do you think Judas is? John Constantine? 
Anyway, Skibi, do try to stick to black and white for evidence that any of the above you described did happen. -
He died for the whole world. People choose to go to hell by not believing such a simple message of salvation. Many people ask can it be so simple? Believe can already ar?Originally posted by Icemoon:The world doesn't include everyone. It refers to the selected few. Because in verse 17, it says God send His Son to save the world. But we know it is not possible the whole world (everyone) can be saved. -
Once saved always saved is heretical.Originally posted by Raptured:He died for the whole world. People choose to go to hell by not believing such a simple message of salvation. Many people ask can it be so simple? Believe can already ar?
If beleiving is so simple why is it easier for a camel to pass thru a pinhead than getting to the Kingdom of Heaven. Only few will be saved...those who perserve to the end.
People choose to go to Hell by wishing to separate themselves from God like by sinning. Whenever u sin, u embrace Satan and renounce CHrist. -
This verse is talking about rich people. It is harder for the rich to enter the Kingdom of God than for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle! But when the apostles asked who then can be saved. Jesus proceeded to say with men it is impossible but with God all things are possible. Means even impossible also possible.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Once saved always saved is heretical.
If beleiving is so simple why is it easier for a camel to pass thru a pinhead than getting to the Kingdom of Heaven. Only few will be saved...those who perserve to the end.
People choose to go to Hell by wishing to separate themselves from God like by sinning. Whenever u sin, u embrace Satan and renounce CHrist.
Yes, few be saved bcos few will accept Jesus and believe in Him and repent. Can't you see majority of people against Christ even though people claim Christianity is the major religion? How many even in church are saved judging from their behaviours?
Jesus died for all our sins right? So does ALL includes that sin you will commit? We are not saved by good works but saved by grace thru faith by the blood of Jesus alone. Anyway the Cross was past and since Christ died in the past, that means he didn't die for future sins of all in the future? He did! ALL! -
Originally posted by Raptured:
But how can these people be against Christ since they ahve 'accepted' him and hence all thier sins (both future and past) are forgiven(by your logic)? Surely everyone who believed him for a period of time will be saved as all thier future transgressions such as sinning and apostasy will be forgiven. Is there a contradiction?
This verse is talking about rich people. [b]It is harder for the rich to enter the Kingdom of God than for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle! But when the apostles asked who then can be saved. Jesus proceeded to say with men it is impossible but with God all things are possible. Means even impossible also possible.
Yes, few be saved bcos few will accept Jesus and believe in Him and repent. Can't you see majority of people against Christ even though people claim Christianity is the major religion? How many even in church are saved judging from their behaviours?
Jesus died for all our sins right? So does ALL includes that sin you will commit? We are not saved by good works but saved by grace thru faith by the blood of Jesus alone. Anyway the Cross was past and since Christ died in the past, that means he didn't die for future sins of all in the future? He did! ALL![/b]
Why is harder for the rich to attain the kingdom by your logic? Surely its far easier for them as all they ahve to do is to accept Christ.
And note how did the Son of Man separate the goats from the sheeps....by faith or by works? -
Those who are truly saved have the Holy Spirit to lead them into all truth. They will have the discernment and won't fall into apostasy. They have never really accepted Christ bcos they never show any fruit at all not even one.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:But how can these people be against Christ since they ahve 'accepted' him and hence all thier sins (both future and past) are forgiven(by your logic)? Surely everyone who believed him for a period of time will be saved as all thier future transgressions such as sinning and apostasy will be forgiven. Is there a contradiction?
Why is harder for the rich to attain the kingdom by your logic? Surely its far easier for them as all they ahve to do is to accept Christ.
And note how did the Son of Man separate the goats from the sheeps....by faith or by works?
Do you love money more than God? If you love money, you won't love God or Jesus. So how to accept Jesus?
So if separated by works then what for believe by faith? Work your way to heaven then. -
This stance pose a major hindrance to your position.Originally posted by Raptured:Those who are truly saved have the Holy Spirit to lead them into all truth. They will have the discernment and won't fall into apostasy.
Saved have the Spirit
Only those who possese the grace of salvation will be granted the Holy Spirit to guide them to all Truth. All those who do not possese thi Truth, are not saved.
Lead them to all Truth
Hence all those who are saved must possese ONE doctrinal truth as the Spirit is absolute and so is Truth. This means only one denomination or a group odf Christians with similiar doctrines will be saved as the rest contradicts its doctrines.
By your logic, only 1 denomination possese the way of salvation and the rest are hindrance as it runs counter to the Truth found in that denomination. To give u a better position, only this particular denomination will possese the fullness of salvation while the rest possese imperfect means,
Is this your position...do u have any idea which Church hold that viewpt...... -
Is it true jewish Hell, Sheol is similiar to Catholic purgatory?Originally posted by Icemoon:I'm not sure which Jewish sage say there is purgatory.
If it is from the Oral Torah, then it is as binding as the Written Torah. -
Why you dunwan to meet Jesus?
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1) cause its so simple that man cannot imagine that the greatest gift is free and simple.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Once saved always saved is heretical.
If beleiving is so simple why is it easier for a camel to pass thru a pinhead than getting to the Kingdom of Heaven. Only few will be saved...those who perserve to the end.
People choose to go to Hell by wishing to separate themselves from God like by sinning. Whenever u sin, u embrace Satan and renounce CHrist.
ever see a group of friends at a coffee shop? when 1 offered to pay for all the drinks, most of the time (singaporean especially) will fight to stop him from paying?
2) another thing, its human nature not to trust, hence the question, is it really that simple? maybe there are some hidden motives hoh? no free lunch one ah... etc
3) why then did Christ says, you need to have the faith like a little child? don't think he meant absolute obedience(any parents will know its not), personally, its total dependence, total dependence on his parents for providence and protection.
4) When we accepted Christ, we were given the spirit of sonship, what does this means? it means we are children of God (ok, adopted children). Any parents will know this, when our children mis-behave, we may discipline them, but they never cease to be our child. If we earth parents know how to care and love our children, how much more do you think our Father in heaven will care and love us? cheers.