Is the Old Testament useless?
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It is full of crap and perverted views of morality.
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It also covers on the covenants of God and the practices of His people, as well as how God deal with people and sins.
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Hello JansenX. Are you here for a discussion or to pick a fight?
If you want to have a meaningful discussion, we would appreciate more of your input.
Some of the moral laws would probably seem archaic. But to understand the moral laws in the Old Testament, one has to understand the cultural environment during that period of time.
p.s. Please refer to the guidelines for this forum. http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=226660 -
Yup, maybe the context under which the laws and practices are suitable during that time? The culture at that time may be different.
We read of people living to very ripe old ages (unless the time ref kept is different) and having been accorded seemingly great powers.
So let's not pre-judge as many religions still refer to the old Testament... -
Originally posted by sillyme:
What kind of cultural environment would justify the seemingly draconian cruelty and heavy-handedness described in the old testament? As an example, what external circumstances would justify punishing a perceived wrong-doer and his descendants up to the 4th generation?
Some of the moral laws would probably seems arhchaic. But to understand the moral laws in the Old Testament, one has to understand the cultural environment during that period of time.
Would appreciate if you can give a succinct clarification rather than putting up links... Thanks! -
I think its not easy to reconcile the Old Testament events and how God deals with His people and those around them, with the way God deals with His Church in the New Testament. For one, we need to take the location, people, situation, history, cultural, events, politics ...etc into consideration when studying the Old Testament.
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Are you here to ask a question: Is the Old Testament useless?Originally posted by JansenX:It is full of crap and perverted views of morality.
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Are you here to pronounce judgement: It is full of crap and perverted views of morality.
Please clarify your stand.
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A thread that starts with a post such as yours is liable to have it closed.
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Did you check the link? It is a guideline of how Eternal Hope is to operate within.Originally posted by Beyond Religion:What kind of cultural environment would justify the seemingly draconian cruelty and heavy-handedness described in the old testament? As an example, what external circumstances would justify punishing a perceived wrong-doer and his descendants up to the 4th generation?
Would appreciate if you can give a succinct clarification rather than putting up links... Thanks!
We are not disagreeing with your rights to believe something else, all we are asking is that it should remain non-confrontational, and should disagreement happen, just agree to disagree and move on. -
Sorry, I'm not an expert here but just offering my humble opinion:Originally posted by Beyond Religion:What kind of cultural environment would justify the seemingly draconian cruelty and heavy-handedness described in the old testament? As an example, what external circumstances would justify punishing a perceived wrong-doer and his descendants up to the 4th generation?
Would appreciate if you can give a succinct clarification rather than putting up links... Thanks!
Leaders during that time depends a lot on ruthlessness in order to preserve their own groups' integrity and to show others who is the boss. Thus, it is not surprising to have draconian laws to scare off potential challengers and maybe even hv some sacrificial persons within the group as a show of strength.
Perhaps there were some Gandhi-like leaders with humility and non-violent tendencies but somehow they never lasted long unless they demonstrate some superhuman feat during that time... -
I did check the link.., and to the best of my knowledge I am operating within its guidelines.Originally posted by Chin Eng:Did you check the link? It is a guideline of how Eternal Hope is to operate within.
We are not disagreeing with your rights to believe something else, all we are asking is that it should remain non-confrontational, and should disagreement happen, just agree to disagree and move on.
I think you mis-understood me there... I am not agreeing with the TS' sentiments... I am just requesting a clarification following Sillyme's post. -
*Icey siams*
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That is why we need everyone who starts a thread to state his views to provide more information how one derives his conclusion. If we just make a general statement, then it may lead to unnececessary misunderstanding.
As for Beyond Religion's query, I am afraid I do not have a good answer to your question. Can you also provide the source of your question so that we can try to seek an answer? -
Yes, I may have... but if you were to follow the flow, sillyme is merely reminding the TS to observe the "rules of engagement" here.Originally posted by Beyond Religion:I did check the link.., and to the best of my knowledge I am operating within its guidelines.
I think you mis-understood me there... I am not agreeing with the TS' sentiments... I am just requesting a clarification following Sillyme's post.
and yes, too, you are operating with it's guidelines, however I don't think the TS is.
Back to the topic. The TS's comments were flippant at best, and confrontation at worst. It is very easy to make passing statements on things that we do not agree. Within such a forum, we hope to dispense with such comments as they are neither edifying nor educational.
The one thing we do not want happening here is another flaming war.
Something that all non-Christians should realise: not every Christian is in TOTAL agreement of the events recorded in the Bible, while we may not talk about it in an open forum like this one, topics and issues are heavily debated in Bible Studies and Cell Groups, and even go up to the pulpit ministries. Debates such as these go beyond merely making useless one-line unsubstantiated comment.
So, again, I invite the TS to expound on his statements. -
A simple answer would be (forgive me for being oversimplistic)..... that's that way things were....Originally posted by Beyond Religion:What kind of cultural environment would justify the seemingly draconian cruelty and heavy-handedness described in the old testament? As an example, what external circumstances would justify punishing a perceived wrong-doer and his descendants up to the 4th generation?
Would appreciate if you can give a succinct clarification rather than putting up links... Thanks!
Cultural environment changes as the culture matures... just the way of life. Any research on the development of civilisation will show that life was really tough then. We shall just wait for Mel Gibson's new movie Apocalyto and watch the life of the Mayans and how they were eradicated.
Biblical times were no different from the rest of the world. It would have been remarkably weird if we turn to the Bible and it records a Hebrew society that is TOTALLY different and out of sync with the rest of the world.... and if THIS REALLY HAPPENS, we'd be debating on whether this recorded history is real or not. So, it does not really solve any problem does it? -
Thanks for the clarification Sillyme & CE.
Oh yes..... I am eagerly anticipating this movie too.Originally posted by Chin Eng:We shall just wait for Mel Gibson's new movie Apocalyto and watch the life of the Mayans and how they were eradicated. -
wah .. our mods can hua4 xian3 wei2 yi2 .. very good.
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without the OT, there will not have been a messiah. you go figure.
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not true. Marcion didn't accept the OT and yet there was a messiah for him. Just support the Apostle Paul can liao. After all the Apostle Paul kind of despised the OT.Originally posted by breytonhartge:without the OT, there will not have been a messiah. you go figure. -
I do not think so.Originally posted by Icemoon:not true. Marcion didn't accept the OT and yet there was a messiah for him. Just support the Apostle Paul can liao. After all the Apostle Paul kind of despised the OT. -
it is proven historically liao.Originally posted by breytonhartge:I do not think so.
history also tells us marcion was the most dangerous foe to the church fathers during the early years. he had a lot of followers. you can see how attractive was his teachings. -
not about marcion, about Shaul. I do not think Shaul would have despised the Holy Scriptures.Originally posted by Icemoon:it is proven historically liao.
history also tells us marcion was the most dangerous foe to the church fathers during the early years. he had a lot of followers. you can see how attractive was his teachings. -
marcion supported all of Paul's epistles (except the pastoral letters .. those are not authentic anyway) and came to that conclusion.Originally posted by breytonhartge:not about marcion, about Shaul. I do not think Shaul would have despised the Holy Scriptures. -
Technically, at this moment in time, it should be superceded by the New Testament. However, the NT came as a offshoot of prophecy of the OT , so both should be equally studided.