Why Many of TodayÂ’s Evangelical Pastors Are Cult-Like
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I need to state the charismatic position mah. so pple can see where is the problem.Originally posted by vince69:frankly, why quote here? lets keep this topic as general as possible without going into specific details yah?
btw, I don't think he said God is not blessing you, but rather if I am not worng, you are not using the blessing from God or not trusting in God (something like this)
Actually this was not what he said because the original context was about church growth, not personal growth. Hey I did not go midweek to bio chio bu ok. I got listen one.
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I think that the article posted by laoda at the start is worth a good read.
While I agree that it is not helpful to pinpoint any church or pastor in Singapore, it is a timely reminder of what service to God is and what isn't.
It must realised, however, that many of such churches do not really have a higher authority to answer to (unless that higher authority is God). In many of such churches governances, the authority falls back to the pastor-in-charge (PIC) and his board of governors (or leaders).
As all may know, I come from a church with a higher human authority than the local pastor - we have a district superintendent and beyond that, a bishop. We have pay scale and promotional grades. In other words, we have outside checks and balances. Even recently, my bishop's pay scale was open to scrutiny.
As a responsible believer, we should always be watchful of such a leadership structure, because at the end of the day, we must ask: where is the external audit? Beyond ensuring that the P & L statement measures up, what checks and balances are there in such churches to ensure that the spirituality (which at the end, will determine the running of the church) is up to par? -
Sorry for highlighting the $$$ part in red, as I thought some may be interested to read about it as the issue was brought up recently.
I have changed the part in red back to black so that we can discuss the other parts of the article as well. -
Outsource payroll services to private companies?Originally posted by Chin Eng:As a responsible believer, we should always be watchful of such a leadership structure, because at the end of the day, we must ask: where is the external audit? Beyond ensuring that the P & L statement measures up, what checks and balances are there in such churches to ensure that the spirituality (which at the end, will determine the running of the church) is up to par?
As for leadership structure and fat pay checks, at the end of the day it depends on the congregation, not external parties. If the members are too submissive and allow certain church leaders to decide on everything, there is nuthing much an outsider can do. -
...exactly, which is why I agree that some congregations fall victim to a structure that does not allow them to question the running of the church. Too many people within such structures are led by the nose merely because they believe that the integrity of their leaders are not to be questioned.Originally posted by laurence82:As for leadership structure and fat pay checks, at the end of the day it depends on the congregation, not external parties. If the members are too submissive and allow certain church leaders to decide on everything, there is nuthing much an outsider can do.
...sad, but true. -
Think congregational/elder system may be better than bishop/megachurch system when it comes to these matters.Originally posted by Chin Eng:...exactly, which is why I agree that some congregations fall victim to a structure that does not allow them to question the running of the church. Too many people within such structures are led by the nose merely because they believe that the integrity of their leaders are not to be questioned.
...sad, but true. -
Personally, I do not have any conclusion as to which is better. If an organisation (secular or otherwise) is ruled by one strongman, than the chance of the system being abused is higher. Sure, each strongman will surround himself with supporters in the guise of working committee (or elders). But if these elders do not consientiously question the ethics of the spiritual leaders, then, the system can and will be abused.Originally posted by laoda99:Think congregational/elder system may be better than bishop/megachurch system when it comes to these matters.
I have been involved in my church committee and have in the past, question the ethics of itinerant speakers and local pastors as well. -
ya please ask Robert Solomon to return our money to the Methodist church leh
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since when u belong to the Methodist Church???Originally posted by gasband:ya please ask Robert Solomon to return our money to the Methodist church leh
si gassie -
Hurhurhurhur u dun know lah! I am in Methodist Church located in the vicinity of Joo Chiat. But I have left a few months ago.Originally posted by laurence82:since when u belong to the Methodist Church???
si gassie -
The key is strong laws and check and balances - very S'pore govt style.Originally posted by Chin Eng:Personally, I do not have any conclusion as to which is better. If an organisation (secular or otherwise) is ruled by one strongman, than the chance of the system being abused is higher. Sure, each strongman will surround himself with supporters in the guise of working committee (or elders). But if these elders do not consientiously question the ethics of the spiritual leaders, then, the system can and will be abused.
I have been involved in my church committee and have in the past, question the ethics of itinerant speakers and local pastors as well.
Catholic Church has the Roman Curia and many commitees to ensure everything runs smoothly without discrepancies.
Thats how Father Kang got caught in Singapore haha. -
from what you said last time, you were also in the Prebysterian ChurchOriginally posted by gasband:Hurhurhurhur u dun know lah! I am in Methodist Church located in the vicinity of Joo Chiat. But I have left a few months ago. -
was that the one in which you played modern music to attract the youths?Originally posted by gasband:Hurhurhurhur u dun know lah! I am in Methodist Church located in the vicinity of Joo Chiat. But I have left a few months ago. -
got meh...Originally posted by laurence82:from what you said last time, you were also in the Prebysterian Church
my churches:
1994 - 1995: Brethen Church in Bukit Panjang
1995 - 1997: Brethen Church in Serangoon
1997 - 2006: Methodist Church in Joo Chiat
2006 - ? : Secret
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did i mention it before? Anyway yes i did.Originally posted by Icemoon:was that the one in which you played modern music to attract the youths? -
Gasband is still very traditionalOriginally posted by gasband:got meh...
my churches:
1994 - 1995: Brethen Church in Bukit Panjang
1995 - 1997: Brethen Church in Serangoon
1997 - 2006: Methodist Church in Joo Chiat
2006 - ? : Secret 
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not really lah haha....i went to my first 2 churches basically becos my Bible Study leaders in Campus Crusade were from there. However, I find it a bit too extremely conservative so I moved on to the Methodist church where it is pretty much balanced. However, as I grew in the giftings and talents I believe God given and thank God for it, I find the church, as leadership changes, growing more and more unsupportive of what I am doing and want to do. I decided to leave because while I will be most comfortable in the current church with familiar people, I believe I owe it to God to go to a place where I can continue to grow in the giftings I was blessed with.Originally posted by laoda99:Gasband is still very traditional