Can The Holy Trinity Be One God?
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Matthew 1:20Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:But technically mary wasnt amrried yet. She was BETHROTHED.
And still doesnt discount the fact Mary is Jesus ( God) MOTHER.
But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 1:24
When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife.
Joseph took Mary home as his wife.... (means legally married) -
ack, start a new thread for Mother of God.
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nay... think there was a thread on this just sometime back, we ended up without a conclusion/agreement.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:ack, start a new thread for Mother of God.
anyway, still have to wake up early in the morning.... you guys can continue, just you in the morning.
btw.. the only dispute is on the title "Mother of God", don't think there is much argument/dispute on the Vrigin Birth of Christ, Mary is Jesus' Mother, Mary is both blessed and full of grace ..etc
good night all. -
vince you not charismatic meh?Originally posted by vince69:the part in bold, really sounds like charismatics, cause it simply says, don't ask so much question, just obey and accept.
even mc2 thinks Pastor Prince is true blue charismatics. Are you not influenced by him?
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Judaism might have anticipated such problem.
So they say God cannot be human.
Or else the floodgate is open to all sort of weird logic. -
Pastor Prince, not that level yet (maybe a low level one), I have been under much more extreme ones than him, at least he have not assume the title Apostle or Prophet yet (which incidentally comes with great responsibilities).Originally posted by Icemoon:vince you not charismatic meh?
even mc2 thinks Pastor Prince is true blue charismatics. Are you not influenced by him? 
haha ... missed out one question ... me, charismatic? me more like the bochap type.
*bad example given,... -
Originally posted by Icemoon:Judaism might have anticipated such problem.
So they say God cannot be human.
Or else the floodgate is open to all sort of weird logic.
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Vince69, every Christian even Luther and the protestant Fathers called May the Mother of God. Do fall into Nestoian heresy.
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Do not you mean?Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Vince69, every Christian even Luther and the protestant Fathers called May the Mother of God. Do fall into Nestoian heresy.
Haha .. Protestant fathers also succumb to the logic. -
from Trinity to Mother of God.....
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Something to share here. As protestants, does the under mentioned confession also bind us? I read that the truely God/truely man concept (which I learnt when I was preparing for Baptism class) was derived from here as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Chalcedon
Confession of Chalcedon
The most comprehensive confession of the Person of Christ was made at the Council of Chalcedon in 451:
"Following the holy Fathers, we unanimously teach and confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ: the same perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, composed of rational soul and body; consubstantial with the Father as to his divinity and consubstantial with us as to his humanity; "like us in all things but sin." He was begotten from the Father before all ages as to his divinity and in these last days, for us and for our salvation, was born as to his humanity of the virgin Mary, the Mother of God.
We confess that one and the same Christ, Lord, and only-begotten Son, is to be acknowledged in two natures without confusion, change, division, or separation. The distinction between natures was never abolished by their union, but rather the character proper to each of the two natures was preserved as they came together in one person (prosopon) and one hypostasis." -
Coming back to the original question:Originally posted by mhcampboy:Our beliefs is that Holy Father, Holy Son and Holy Spirit is one God under the Holy Trinity.
But in the bible, it does not mention anything about it. It was the teaching of the church after Jesus died. So is it justifiable to have a MAN made doctrine that lead us to the belief of the existence of 3 Gods who are 1?
I mean, I understand the church was inspired by the happenings and events that took place in the bible by each of the 3 gods and thus concepted the Holy Trinity.
But at the end of the day, the Holy Trinity is still the teachings of man. And not from the word of God himself.
I believe if we were to dispute the trinity, we may not be able to still call ourselves Christians anymore.
Why? Becoz if we accept the preposition that Jesus is not God, we may as well become followers of other monothestic faith which says Jesus is not God and just a mere man/prophet.
Furthermore, if holy spirit is not God and just "God's active force", then we might as well join a cult call JW.
I like some of the orthodox christians beliefs which I have read in some books. To them, the trinity is a mystery. Let's not go into technical details becoz all of us will be stumbled.
I know another monothestic faith always use the bible to "prove" that Jesus is not God. However, it is fundamental for Christians to believe Jesus is God. We have these verses in the bible to remind us who Christ was:
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." together with John 1:14 "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." and John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known." -
Pls show me from Scripture, thanksOriginally posted by Pope Nicholas:Vince69, every Christian even Luther and the protestant Fathers called May the Mother of God. Do fall into Nestoian heresy. -
I'm sure the Protestant fathers read more Scripture than you.Originally posted by vince69:Pls show me from Scripture, thanks
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nia, im too lazy to ready the front 3 pages.
anyway, a homemade analogy for campboy.
Your "father" can be your saviour(in times of need), your father(yes.=.=!!..) and your teacher, and provider($$) all 4 in one. -
Father of God = Joseph.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Vince69, every Christian even Luther and the protestant Fathers called May the Mother of God. Do fall into Nestoian heresy.
and the brother of God = James and....
one big family...is that what you are saying?? -
of course, thats why I asked, "show it to me."Originally posted by Icemoon:I'm sure the Protestant fathers read more Scripture than you.
see, I have this problem comprehening the title "Mother of God", our catholic breathen here say, because Church fathers say so, so we have to accept.
can I know on what basis do they say this? any Scriptural ref? and reasoning?
I mean, cannot say, they said so we must believe (no question allowed) or no need to give/provide explaination one, right? -
hush hush, already said this formulae is flaw liao...Originally posted by davidche:Father of God = Joseph.
and the brother of God = James and....
one big family...is that what you are saying?? -
A much more productive discussion seen in the previous thread.
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=208844
Start a new thread? -
Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:
who's May? Peter Parker's auntie?
Vince69, every Christian even Luther and the protestant Fathers called May the Mother of God. Do fall into Nestoian heresy.
seriously, Luther and the Protestant fathers are also susceptible to error lah.... -
wei!! anybody hear what i said???
a homemade analogy for campboy.
Your "father" can be your saviour(in times of need), your father(yes.=.=!!..) and your teacher, and provider($$) all 4 in one. -
heard you lah, but hor .... bad analogy loh...Originally posted by davidche:wei!! anybody hear what i said???
a homemade analogy for campboy.
Your "father" can be your saviour(in times of need), your father(yes.=.=!!..) and your teacher, and provider($$) all 4 in one.
for one, your example is on the same person with different role, which is very much different from the doctrine of Trinity. -
Joseph is not jesus fatherOriginally posted by davidche:Father of God = Joseph.
and the brother of God = James and....
one big family...is that what you are saying??
James is not christ brother...
Are they related biologically?
Mary on the other hand is, half of jesus genes came from her. Thats how he gets his human nature. -
how about the other half of the genes?? well if you want to continue this.....Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Joseph is not jesus father
Are they related biologically?
Mary on the other hand is, half of jesus genes came from her. Thats how he gets his human nature.James is not christ brother...
are you sure? -
Half from the Holy Spirit (divine nature) and half from Mary? How do u think Christ becomes a descedants of King David?Originally posted by davidche:how about the other half of the genes?? well if you want to continue this.....
Luke 1:43 - Elizabeth's use of "Mother of my Lord" (in Hebrew, Elizabeth used "Adonai" which means Lord God) is the equivalent of "Holy Mary, Mother of God" which Catholics pray in the Rosary. The formula is simple: Jesus is a divine person, and this person is God. Mary is Jesus' Mother, so Mary is the mother of God (Mary is not just the Mother of Jesus' human nature - mothers are mothers of persons, not natures).