Can The Holy Trinity Be One God?
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Mother of God, the Son, Jesus Christ.Originally posted by Icemoon:u never learn because the logic is staring right at your face.
it is not an interpretation. it is a logical conclusion.
Yes! I accept. -
Nestorian ressurected. MC2 are u a 4th century heretic?Originally posted by M©+square:??? I reject means i don't learn?
How did your logic conclude that?
"And so you say, O heretic, whoever you may be, who deny that God was born of the Virgin, that Mary the Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ ought not to be called Theotocos, i.e., Mother of God, but Christotocos, i.e., only the Mother of Christ, not of God. For no one, you say, brings forth what is anterior in time. And of this utterly foolish argument whereby you think that the birth of God can be understood by carnal minds, and fancy that the mystery of His Majesty can be accounted for by human reasoning, we will, if God permits, say something later on. In the meanwhile we will now prove by Divine testimonies that Christ is God, and that Mary is the Mother of God." John Cassian, The Incarnation of Christ, II:2 (A.D. 430). -
hmmm.. i think its all abt interpretation.Originally posted by laoda99:Hi Campy,
Know u are still new to the Christian faith, but as a Christian, you should know that we dun believe in 3 Gods. We believe in one God in three persons. There is a lot of difference in this.
Did u approach ur priest at SAC or anyone to clarify your doubts?
haaha
ok...i shlld not use the term god to describe them.
wad i meant was... the 3 PERSON as 1 GOD. shld have use the word person... was searchin for the right word to describe them.. -
Apostolic Traditions are unwritten Tradition which is deposited in the Church. Do u reject their teaching?Originally posted by M©+square:If those apostolic traditions you refer are popes, who claimed Mother of Jesus IS the Mother of God.
I will have to decline their interpretation, politely.
Popes and the Church TEACH Apostolic Tradition and Scripture. The Church uses TRADITION to intepretate Scripture. Or as Tertullian says:
"We do not take our scriptural teaching from the parables but we interpret the parables according to our teaching." Tertullian, Purity 9,1 (c. A.D. 200). -
I do not reject all teachings.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Apostolic Traditions are unwritten Tradition which is deposited in the Church. Do u reject their teaching?
Popes and the Church TEACH Apostolic Tradition and Scripture. The Church uses TRADITION to intepretate Scripture. Or as Tertullian says:
"We do not take our scriptural teaching from the parables but we interpret the parables according to our teaching." Tertullian, Purity 9,1 (c. A.D. 200). -
So u pick and choose which Apostolic Teachings to hold dear?Originally posted by M©+square:I do not reject all teachings. -
But im not a Catholic or Christian to start with.....Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:So u pick and choose which Apostolic Teachings to hold dear?
And you're not clear on what is considered Apostolic Teachings.
Any links i can refer to? Then i come back to you? -
i thought you took issue with calling Mary the Mother of God?Originally posted by Icemoon:u never learn because the logic is staring right at your face.
it is not an interpretation. it is a logical conclusion. -
Maybe he learnt?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:i thought you took issue with calling Mary the Mother of God?
And i didn't.
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Mr Pope is kind enought to appoint me cardinal.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:i thought you took issue with calling Mary the Mother of God?
I must do something in return.
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Can anyone explain to me why do some people reject the title Mother of God? Its logical and it fits the entire doctrine of the Incarnation?
Mother of Christ vs Mother of God heresy was defeated more than 15 centuries ago...why has it ressurected. -
I apologise for bringing in the issue of Virgin Mary into the discussion of Trinity.
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I will no longer discuss anything regarding Mary,
Pope Nic.
Please do send me some links on Apostolic teachings and traditions, i wish to have a read up before replying your query.
Cheers -
it is resurrection!
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Is there any other means to explain the nature of God besides the trinity?
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You want the Tree of Life in Judaism?
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But that wont include Christ nor explain him?Originally posted by Icemoon:You want the Tree of Life in Judaism? -
wonder how was the argument won ... by words or by swordsOriginally posted by Pope Nicholas:Can anyone explain to me why do some people reject the title Mother of God? Its logical and it fits the entire doctrine of the Incarnation?
Mother of Christ vs Mother of God heresy was defeated more than 15 centuries ago...why has it ressurected.
Mother of Jesus - logical and Biblical
Mother of God ???? its only logical if one take pass teaching without any questioning (or is questioning is heretical?).
ok Icey... on you recollection on that discussion
Mary is Mother of Jesus
Jesus is God (the Son)
Mary is Mother of God
let me bring the recollection further
Joseph is Husband of Mary
Mary is Mother of God
Joseph is Father of God???? doesn't sound logical, right? NO, its outright heresy. -
Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:
the part in bold, really sounds like charismatics, cause it simply says, don't ask so much question, just obey and accept.
Nestorian ressurected. MC2 are u a 4th century heretic?
"And so you say, O heretic, whoever you may be, who deny that God was born of the Virgin, that Mary the Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ ought not to be called Theotocos, i.e., Mother of God, but Christotocos, i.e., only the Mother of Christ, not of God. For no one, you say, brings forth what is anterior in time. And of this utterly foolish argument whereby you think that the birth of God can be understood by carnal minds, and fancy that the mystery of His Majesty can be accounted for by human reasoning, we will, if God permits, say something later on. In the meanwhile we will now prove by Divine testimonies that Christ is God, and that Mary is the Mother of God." John Cassian, The Incarnation of Christ, II:2 (A.D. 430). -
Back to the Trinity question
Gensis 1:1-2
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.John 1:1-14
The Word Became Flesh
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.Matthew 28:19
In Mathew28, we have an example of the three distintive persons God, Christ, HolySpirit.
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
In John 1, however we are introduced the unity
John 1:1(Word) vs Gen 1:2 (Spirit of God)
we have Spirit of God,ie; Holy Spirit is the Word (In the begining)
Then we have the Word was God
then at verse 14, The Word became flesh (Christ)
How can three distintive beings (if I may put it this way), be one?
some says they are united in form, some says they are united in purpose, yet some others says they are but the same only differ in form/character/POV.
Personally, I do not know how to explain this in the best way. I accept this cause it can be infer from Scripture, not just only just traditional teachings.
Perhaps, this may be the #1 questions we will ask God when we meet him.
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Erm...Joesph is Mary Husband but he in no sense passed any genes of him onto Jesus.Originally posted by vince69:wonder how was the argument won ... by words or by swords
Mother of Jesus - logical and Biblical
Mother of God ???? its only logical if one take pass teaching without any questioning (or is questioning is heretical?).
ok Icey... on you recollection on that discussion
Mary is Mother of Jesus
Jesus is God (the Son)
Mary is Mother of God
let me bring the recollection further
Joseph is Husband of Mary
Mary is Mother of God
Joseph is Father of God???? doesn't sound logical, right? NO, its outright heresy.
A woman is a man’s mother either if she carried him in her womb or if she was the woman contributing half of his genetic matter or both. Mary was the mother of Jesus in both of these senses; because she not only carried Jesus in her womb but also supplied all of the genes for his human body, since it was through her—not Joseph—that Jesus "was descended from David according to the flesh"
Since Mary is JesusÂ’ mother, it must be concluded that she is also the Mother of God: If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and if Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God. Its so logical
Although Mary is the Mother of God, she is not the source of her Son’s divinity, for she is neither. Rather, we say that she is the Mother of God in the sense that she carried in her womb a divine person—Jesus Christ, God "in the flesh" —and in the sense that she contributed the genetic matter to the human form God took in Jesus Christ. Mary thus carried and gave birth to the person of Jesus Christ, and the person she gave birth to was God. -
Mary can be called the Mother of God because She gave birth to Jesus. I believe that it is this unique maternal act that merits Her the title 'Mother of God'.Originally posted by vince69:Joseph is Husband of Mary
Mary is Mother of God
Joseph is Father of God???? doesn't sound logical, right? NO, its outright heresy.
Well if you want to be more specific Joseph is the foster father of Jesus.. Do you think we can call him the 'Foster Father of God'? -
That's why I had say it before, and I am putting it forward now, that equation that was being brought forward is illogical.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Mary can be called the Mother of God because She gave birth to Jesus. I believe that it is this unique maternal act that merits Her the title 'Mother of God'.
Well if you want to be more specific Joseph is the foster father of Jesus.. Do you think we can call him the 'Foster Father of God'?
To me, to call someone Father of God, Foster Father of God, Mother of God, is both illogical and unbiblical. its totally based on human logic of inferment which if left uncheck can run really wild. -
1) Charismatcs tend to be non-denom so there is no authority.Originally posted by vince69:the part in bold, really sounds like charismatics, cause it simply says, don't ask so much question, just obey and accept.
2) Its part of a docmuent arguing aginst the Nestorian heresy u are advocating. -
But technically mary wasnt amrried yet. She was BETHROTHED.Originally posted by vince69:ok, Joseph not Jesus' biological father, but he is Husband to Mary, His mother.
then Joseph become Step Father loh?
And still doesnt discount the fact Mary is Jesus ( God) MOTHER. -
Charismatic claims the personal inspiration of the Holy Spirit.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:1) Charismatcs tend to be non-denom so there is no authority.
2) Its part of a docmuent arguing aginst the Nestorian heresy u are advocating.