Can The Holy Trinity Be One God?
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Our beliefs is that Holy Father, Holy Son and Holy Spirit is one God under the Holy Trinity.
But in the bible, it does not mention anything about it. It was the teaching of the church after Jesus died. So is it justifiable to have a MAN made doctrine that lead us to the belief of the existence of 3 Gods who are 1?
I mean, I understand the church was inspired by the happenings and events that took place in the bible by each of the 3 gods and thus concepted the Holy Trinity.
But at the end of the day, the Holy Trinity is still the teachings of man. And not from the word of God himself. -
Now you know why the Hindhus have many "gods" but believe that all these "gods" are but the manifestations of but "ONE SUPREME GOD"Originally posted by mhcampboy:Our beliefs is that Holy Father, Holy Son and Holy Spirit is one God under the Holy Trinity.
But in the bible, it does not mention anything about it. It was the teaching of the church after Jesus died. So is it justifiable to have a MAN made doctrine that lead us to the belief of the existence of 3 Gods who are 1?
I mean, I understand the church was inspired by the happenings and events that took place in the bible by each of the 3 gods and thus concepted the Holy Trinity.
But at the end of the day, the Holy Trinity is still the teachings of man. And not from the word of God himself. -
Why stop at three?
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because there are three realms .. earth, heaven and hell.Originally posted by casino_king:Why stop at three? -
Father Son Holy Spirit ( NO other)Originally posted by Icemoon:because there are three realms .. earth, heaven and hell.
I would like to say this is a fine example of when a doctrine is implicitly mentioned in Scripture but required Apostolic (unwritten) Tradition to fully understand and teach.
The doctrine of the Trinity is encapsulated in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles to "go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" and it appears elsewhere in the New Testament (e.g., 2 Cor. 13:14; Heb. 9:14).
For MOre scripturial backing, i suggest http://www.scripturecatholic.com/jesus_christ_divinity.html
Church Fathers who were taught by the Apostles:
The Didache
After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. . . . If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (Didache7:1 [A.D. 70]).
Ignatius of Antioch
For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God's plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit (Letter to the Ephesians 18:2 [A.D. 110].
Justin Martyr
We will prove that we worship him reasonably, for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things, but they are ignorant of the mystery that lies therein (First Apology 13:5–6 [A.D. 151]).
Theophilus of Antioch
It is the attribute of God, of the most high and almighty and of the living God, not only to be everywhere, but also to see and hear all, for he can in no way be contained in a place. . . . The three days before the luminaries were created are types of the Trinity: God, his Word, and his Wisdom (To Autolycus 2:15 [A.D. 181]).
Irenaeus
For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . . and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]). -
If you were coming from a hebraic mindset, the trinity would not even be an issue.
Shma Israel Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad.
Hear O Israel, the LORD thy GOD is ONE.
It is understood that Yahweh, Yeshua and the Ruach Hakodesh are one. Yahweh being the male gender, the Ruach Hakodesh being the feminine gender and Yeshua being the son, therefore giving the example of a family model which we understand we are to have. -
Matthew 28:19 (NIV)
Very clearly stated in the bible.
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, -
Hmmm i am just saying, the doctrine of the Trinity is man made.
It was not taught in the Gospels. It wasnt even mentioned by Jesus or God or Holy Spirit or any other biblical figures at that time.
So can we accept readily something which is made up by man regarding God? -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:
This is perversion of the Hebrew Scripture.
If you were coming from a hebraic mindset, the trinity would not even be an issue.
[b]Shma Israel Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad.
Hear O Israel, the LORD thy GOD is ONE.
It is understood that Yahweh, Yeshua and the Ruach Hakodesh are one. Yahweh being the male gender, the Ruach Hakodesh being the feminine gender and Yeshua being the son, therefore giving the example of a family model which we understand we are to have. [/b]
Are you sure the Shema is enforcing the Trinity? -
Erm .. trust the Tradition passed down by the Apostolic Fathers?Originally posted by mhcampboy:Hmmm i am just saying, the doctrine of the Trinity is man made.
It was not taught in the Gospels. It wasnt even mentioned by Jesus or God or Holy Spirit or any other biblical figures at that time.
So can we accept readily something which is made up by man regarding God?
I mean Jesus gave the keys to Peter. You trust Jesus naturally you trust the Tradition right? -
Originally posted by Icemoon:Erm .. trust the Tradition passed down by the Apostolic Fathers?
I mean Jesus gave the keys to Peter. You trust Jesus naturally you trust the Tradition right?
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But remember, Peter and the rest is not God. How could they concepted a teaching which is deemed as divine and yet, not mentioned in the bible? Even if Peter was given the responsibility after Jesus, that do not mean they can concepted a doctrine and spread it.Originally posted by Icemoon:Erm .. trust the Tradition passed down by the Apostolic Fathers?
I mean Jesus gave the keys to Peter. You trust Jesus naturally you trust the Tradition right?
I mean, they should spread the way using biblical knowledge right? Not something which is not in the bible. -
Ok .. since Mr Pope just paid me 30 tales of silver .. I have to do the dirty job.Originally posted by mhcampboy:But remember, Peter and the rest is not God. How could they concepted a teaching which is deemed as divine and yet, not mentioned in the bible? Even if Peter was given the responsibility after Jesus, that do not mean they can concepted a doctrine and spread it.
I mean, they should spread the way using biblical knowledge right? Not something which is not in the bible.
Peter and the rest not God, true, but Jesus gave them the Holy Spirit that gives them the gift of truth (poor phrasing, but you get the idea).
By the way .. do you suppose the apostles will concept a doctrine and spread it? Mai siao siao .. they are Apostles you know and their teachings have never been in error.
Spread using biblical knowledge? Actually the Trinity is encapsulated in bible liao, not that there is absolutely no hint of it. Furthermore you don't suppose they will write one long treatise on the Holy Spirit? No use one, people will get confused. As shown historically, people were very confused. -
Remember he possese the powers of binding and loosing. If u can trust the Church to select which books are inspired in 390AD, surely u can trust the same Church to teach the doctrine of Holy Trinity?Originally posted by Icemoon:Ok .. since Mr Pope just paid me 30 tales of silver .. I have to do the dirty job.
Peter and the rest not God, true, but Jesus gave them the Holy Spirit that gives them the gift of truth (poor phrasing, but you get the idea).
By the way .. do you suppose the apostles will concept a doctrine and spread it? Mai siao siao .. they are Apostles you know and their teachings have never been in error.
Spread using biblical knowledge? Actually the Trinity is encapsulated in bible liao, not that there is absolutely no hint of it. Furthermore you don't suppose they will write one long treatise on the Holy Spirit? No use one, people will get confused. As shown historically, people were very confused. -
Fair enough.
But I still think, teachings and beliefs that we hold on to must have the credibility to refer it to the bible.
I mean, we believe in the Holy Trinity, but its not mentioned at all in the bible. And yet we regard it as divine. -
Yes yes I concur!Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Remember he possese the powers of binding and loosing. If u can trust the Church to select which books are inspired in 390AD, surely u can trust the same Church to teach the doctrine of Holy Trinity?
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Not mentioned AT ALL?Originally posted by mhcampboy:Fair enough.
But I still think, teachings and beliefs that we hold on to must have the credibility to refer it to the bible.
I mean, we believe in the Holy Trinity, but its not mentioned at all in the bible. And yet we regard it as divine.
Then what's your interpreation of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit mentioned in the bible? -
Im talking abt the term.. Holy Trinity.Originally posted by Icemoon:Not mentioned AT ALL?
Then what's your interpreation of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit mentioned in the bible?
Not the existence of Father, Son and Spirit. -
The Apostles taught it to thier students. Just read quotes of our Church Fathers in this site.Originally posted by mhcampboy:Fair enough.
But I still think, teachings and beliefs that we hold on to must have the credibility to refer it to the bible.
I mean, we believe in the Holy Trinity, but its not mentioned at all in the bible. And yet we regard it as divine.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/jesus_christ_divinity.html#tradition-II
But I personally feel ur position is flawed that everythig that is necessary for salvation must be explicitly stated in the Bible. I agree that it must be implicitly stated in Scriptures and with Tradition u might gain a complete understanding of a doctrine.
The problem, therefore, with sola Scriptura, is that the knowledge of which Scriptures are inspired and which ones are not is not contained in the Bible. The Bible does not have an "inspired table of contents." Instead, this knowledge of the canon of Scripture is a revelation from God that is necessary for our salvation, and yet came to us from outside the Bible. This was revealed to The CC whom with Apostolic Tradition selected the inspired books. By ur logic, the Bible compiled by the CC is at best unbiblical.
Appreciate Tradition and Scripture.
"If I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth." 1 Tim 3:15
Church not Bible is the pillar of Truth. -
Yay we are in agreement for once YAY!!!Originally posted by Icemoon:Yes yes I concur! -
yay yay .. are you very gay now?Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Yay we are in agreement for once YAY!!! -
I have to disagree respectfully.Originally posted by Pope Nicholas:Church not Bible is the pillar of Truth.
Bible, Magistrium, Tradition are the three pillars.
PS: not in order of importance, but in alphabetical order, all are equally important (all 100%). -
Wah lao Nicholas, like that you also dunno ah!Originally posted by Icemoon:I have to disagree respectfully.
Bible, Magistrium, Tradition are the three pillars.
PS: not in order of importance, but in alphabetical order, all are equally important (all 100%).
Ahem, time for new papal elections... -
heng I learnt that from ben.
thanks god for Eternal Hope. -
LOL yes I agree.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Wah lao Nicholas, like that you also dunno ah!
Ahem, time for new papal elections...
No Council can overthrow His Holiness muahaha