Salvation by faith not works - a half truth
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I do not think anyone who oppose Satan / unsound theology is a bigot.Originally posted by Skibi:So everyone that exposes your wrong doings becomes a satan?
Why I call u Satan? Becoz the things u write upon first sight appeal to everyone, but further reading only reveal it is full of your own theology.
In short, LIES.
U are either Satan or read too much manga. -
Originally posted by laoda99:
I do not think anyone who oppose Satan / unsound theology is a bigot.
Why I call u Satan? Becoz the things u write upon first sight appeal to everyone, but further reading only reveal it is full of your own theology.
In short, LIES.
U are either Satan or read too much manga.
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and the church does not teach lies??Originally posted by laoda99:I do not think anyone who oppose Satan / unsound theology is a bigot.
Why I call u Satan? Becoz the things u write upon first sight appeal to everyone, but further reading only reveal it is full of your own theology.
In short, LIES.
U are either Satan or read too much manga.
what? everyone who does not agree with you is satan? -
U want to add fire to the oil while I teach this person a lesson?Originally posted by breytonhartge:and the church does not teach lies??
He is extremely evil.....even the first quote he used purposely lifted out of context.
And u should reflect upon yourself also, believer. Think we have very little memory of our past. Every thing u write is like slapping what u believed in last time. -
lol .. everyone taking potshots now.
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why is it your role to teach this person a lesson? just stick to scriptural facts and let the Holy Spirit convict...Originally posted by laoda99:U want to add fire to the oil while I teach this person a lesson?
He is extremely evil.....even the first quote he used purposely lifted out of context. -
Did I ask him to agree with me?Originally posted by breytonhartge:and the church does not teach lies??
what? everyone who does not agree with you is satan?
Am I reproaching him becoz I have something personal against him?
No.....it is becoz he mixed half-trues with his personal theology. Why u never point out his mistakes? Becoz u are selective also? -
Why then is it written inOriginally posted by laoda99:U want to add fire to the oil while I teach this person a lesson?
He is extremely evil.....even the first quote he used purposely lifted out of context.
And u should reflect upon yourself also, believer. Think we have very little memory of our past. Every thing u write is like slapping what u believed in last time.
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
whose commandments do you think this is referring to? What commandments are these referring to? -
Dun ask me these questions. While I am talking abt A, you talk abt Z.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Why then is it written in
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
whose commandments do you think this is referring to? What commandments are these referring to?
All I know is, if you want to turn Jew, turn completely into one. They dun even believe their messiah has come yet.
Dun half here half there, dun even look like anything. -
Of course I believe in the bible.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Sillyme, your exposition here is the precise problem with christianity... this is the precise deception that hasatan has wrought in the church... when were the ten commandments given to the Jews? They were specifically given to a certain group of people and not a race. It was given to a nation and not a race.
Yahweh has given us the commandments so that we may have salvation and the right to the tree of life...
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
Commandments as in the all inclusive laws... not just the ten, but beginning with the ten.
Did Yeshua do work on the sabbath? no. He healed, which is allowed to do. But christians do not even keep shabbat... is sunday the LORD's day? No, it has never ever been... yet the church propagates the lies year after year...
According to the book of Hebrews, who was the new covenant been given to? The house of Israel and the house of Judah... See Heb 8:7-10
If we are not part of the covenant, we have no part of the promise...
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=226014
Sillyme, are you a bible believer or not? The majority of what is in the NT is taken from the OT.. so if you are saying that one is obsolete, then what is the basis for your faith, because there can be no NT without the OT (Holy Scirptures).
I am not trying to disprove what you say. I am just trying to find our your point of view because it is not conventional from what I am used to hear. We are all trying to understand the bible right?
So do you believe in salvation by faith or works?
p.s. Coming from an Anglican church, I must clarify that Sunday is not Sabbath to us. Sunday is a weekly memorial of the Resurrection of Christ. -
I was not following his train of thought...Originally posted by laoda99:Did I ask him to agree with me?
Am I reproaching him becoz I have something personal against him?
No.....it is becoz he mixed half-trues with his personal theology. Why u never point out his mistakes? Becoz u are selective also? -
Originally posted by laoda99:
U want to add fire to the oil while I teach this person a lesson?
He is extremely evil.....even the first quote he used purposely lifted out of context.
And u should reflect upon yourself also, believer. Think we have very little memory of our past. Every thing u write is like slapping what u believed in last time.Luke 6:44 NIV
laoda99 fox tail coming out liao.
Each tree is recognized by its own fruit.
This is what God says to you, lauda99... Matthew 22:29 NIV
But Jesus answered them, "You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.Luke 6:37 NIV
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.Matthew 7:19 NIV
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. -
Fox calling another fox? People will know who the fox is.Originally posted by Skibi:laoda99 fox tail coming out liao.
This is what God says to you, lauda99
If like what u do, anyone who can quote is God liao. And yes, I almost forgot Satan can quote also.
Quite funny, the verses you quote is correct, but it apply to u urself. -
I am not the one being half here and half there, the church is the one, preaching half truths and half lies neither here nor there...Originally posted by laoda99:Dun ask me these questions. While I am talking abt A, you talk abt Z.
All I know is, if you want to turn Jew, turn completely into one. They dun even believe their messiah has come yet.
Dun half here half there, dun even look like anything. -
for example, is Jesus god or man?Originally posted by breytonhartge:I am not the one being half here and half there, the church is the one, preaching half truths and half lies neither here nor there...
He is both!
half true, half lie, neither here nor there. -
Salvation is first by faith then we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling..Originally posted by sillyme:Of course I believe in the bible.
I am not trying to disprove what you say. I am just trying to find our your point of view because it is not conventional from what I am used to hear. We are all trying to understand the bible right?
So do you believe in salvation by faith or works?
p.s. Coming from an Anglican church, I must clarify that Sunday is not Sabbath to us. Sunday is a weekly memorial of the Resurrection of Christ. -
Laoda,Originally posted by laoda99:Fox calling another fox? People will know who the fox is.
If like what u do, anyone who can quote is God liao. And yes, I almost forgot Satan can quote also.
Quite funny, the verses you quote is correct, but it apply to u urself.
leave the boy alone. And let him do whatever he wants.
Cheers -
BreyOriginally posted by breytonhartge:I was not following his train of thought...
You may want to go through his post in this thread for a start, especially the last few ones. you will find a theology that is totally non-christian, in fact he is almost talking about a salvation apart from yeshuah. you read my reply to him also. -
Originally posted by Ironside:
1) Who are those people who can exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees?
Those who have Christ indwelling in them. Christ indwelling through the Holy Spirit makes us capable of being filled with the fruits of righteousness to the glory of God.
Php 1:11 being filled with the fruits of righteousness which are [b]by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.
It is only BY Jesus Christ that true righteousness is possible. All other righteousness will not do with God. God does not accept filthy rags righteousness.
How can we have Christ in us?
By trusting alone in Christ alone.
When we have trusted in Christ, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit indwells us.
When we have the Holy Spirit in us, what are some of the fruits that will be manifested through us as we walk in the Spirit?
Ga 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
We are only capable of giving true love when we have the Holy Spirit in us and we walking in HIm. AGain we recieved the Holy Spirit through faith alone in Christ alone.
Example: Was Paul a Pharisee? Yes
Php 3:5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee;
How did Paul surpass the righteousness of the Pharisee? by faith alone in Christ alone
Php 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
2) the Bible does not command us to have faith?
Mr 11:22 So Jesus answered and said to them, "Have faith in God.
Joh 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.
Paul told the Philippian jailer: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.........."
Of course Paul was exhorting him to believe in Christ truly, to have faith in Christ truly. When that happens, our hearts are purified through faith in Jesus Christ.
Ac 15:9 "and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
When can a heart be purified and be capable of loving? When it has been cleansed by faith in Christ. Paul knew that trusting in Christ will transformed the sinner from the inside out, giving him a new heart capable of true love, therefore Paul [or God through Paul] commanded the jailer to believe [trust] in the Lord Jesus Christ.
3) faith is the result of loving God?
Love is the result of a renewed and purified heart by faith alone in Christ alone
We love Him because we have appropriated the truth by faith that He first loved us, that He gave Himself for us.
4) The whole idea that some christians subscribe to - salvation by faith not works/deeds - is a lie or at best a half truth.
Please notice the word "by" in verse 8 and the word "for" in verse 10 below. We are saved BY grace through faith......not of works but FOR good works.
Paul said that:
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
[/b]How can we have Christ in us?
I am not Devil incarnate
By trusting alone in Christ alone.
When we have trusted in Christ, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit indwells us.
When we have the Holy Spirit in us, what are some of the fruits that will be manifested through us as we walk in the Spirit?
Ga 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
....will my spirit bear fruits of knowledge 
Please notice the word "by" in verse 8 and the word "for" in verse 10 below. We are saved BY grace through faith......not of works but FOR good works.
Ok -
Originally posted by Skibi:
Truth remains the Truth,
Do not discount your true worth in God's eyes with human logic. You are worth the blood of Jesus Christ. God judges the heart. Thus every deed done with a sincere heart is perfect in God's eyes no matter how insignificant it may seem to others. In this way we can be as perfect and holy as God which is necessary for salvation.
Of inner character, deeds and faith. Inner character is most important followed by deeds which reflect that inner character. Faith while commendable, is not necessary for salvation - those who reject Jesus in this life because of the actions of unworthy/hypocritical/bigoted christians may still be saved based on their inner character and deeds. [b]Thus salvation is open to all and not exclusive to christians - because Jesus died for everyone.[/b]
yes salvation is open to everyone, but only those that are willing to humble themselves to admit their own inability and humbly receive this gift of salvation that is by grace through faith in Christ Jesus will be saved.
[its like a sinking ship in the middle of the ocean, the life boats are for everyone, but only those that are willing to get into the life boat will be saved, those that refused, goes down with the ship]
Faith not necessary for salvation?Hebrews 11:6
How is it that Faith become not necessary when without faith one cannot even please God.
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
If Inner character and deeds is the sole citerial for salvation, than there is no need for Christ to die on the cross, it would have been better if He just stick around and teach people how to have inner character and do good deeds.Hebrews 9:22
yet it is written, without blood, there can be no forgiveness of sins.
In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
This school of taught of salvation by works is totally un-christian (hence I asked if you are a gnostic practioneer, for you do not sound christian in your basic doctrine, and I find it pointless to continue doctrinal discourse with one that do not subscribe to it).
why unchristian?
1) It nullified the works, suffering, death, resurrection of Christ Jesus our Lord
2) It nullified the perfect requirements of God shown in the Law of Moses
3) It nullified the testamonies of the Holy Spirit as a witness to the promises of God and a seal to our salvation
In short it seek to nullify the entire salvation plan of God and reduce Christ to a status of only a good teacher.1 Peter 3:18-22
You are saved by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, not by you works, not by your inner character, not by your good deeds.....
18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. -
Brey, my brotherOriginally posted by breytonhartge:Salvation is first by faith then we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling..
Salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone. period.Philippians 2 : 12-13
[*Note : the preceeding verses are on imitating Yeshuah's Humility]
12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
[verse 14-18 about doing everything without complaining or arguing, and be a light to this world]
Here, we need to read both verse 12 and 13 together for they are of the same sentence. yes, verse 12 Paul did says and even exhort the believers to continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, but also note that in verse 13, he continue to remind us, its not our own effort or ability, its God who works in us, both to will and to act according to His good purpose.
(so none of us can boast that its our own effort, but in thanks giving and graditude, praise and worship God) -
Laoda, brother ... don't like this leh... not good to anyhow call names leh...Originally posted by laoda99:That is a lie. Leave us, satan.
*don't think satan will be so free to come online to sgforum just to disturb us, don't think we that big shots leh -
Originally posted by vince69:
The death of Jesus merely freed us from bondage to sin and gives us the power of choice to choose our eternal allegiance. Currently Jesus is in posession of the souls of everyone past/present/and future, having bought them with his blood. This should not be confused with being saved - far from it. By your inner character and deeds Jesus will judge your soul and decide whether you are holy enough for heaven. This is the importance of cultivating a pure inner character and bearing good fruit/deeds. The good tree that bears good fruit will not be cut down and thrown in the fire.
You are saved by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, not by you works, not by your inner character, not by your good deeds.....
IIRC Jesus never emphasized much on faith except when it comes to performing miracles. It seems that I am being labeled as a "satan" and "extremely evil" by placing my trust in God rather than a man - Paul.Luke 6:22 NIV
Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.
Luke 21:17 NIV
All men will hate you because of me.
Mark 13:13 NIV
All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matthew 10:22 NIV
All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. -
no, you did not place you trust in God, you placed your trust in Man, this man is yourself, for you seek to justified yourself through your own inner character and deeds and rejected the grace of God.Originally posted by Skibi:The death of Jesus merely freed us from bondage to sin and gives us the power of choice to choose our eternal allegiance. Currently Jesus is in posession of the souls of everyone past/present/and future, having bought them with his blood. This should not be confused with being saved - far from it. By your inner character and deeds Jesus will judge your soul and decide whether you are holy enough for heaven. This is the importance of cultivating a pure inner character and bearing good fruit/deeds. The good tree that bears good fruit will not be cut down and thrown in the fire.
IIRC Jesus never emphasized much on faith except when it comes to performing miracles. It seems that I am being labeled as a "satan" and "extremely evil" by placing my trust in God rather than a man - Paul.
In short, your trust is in yourself, not in the finished work of Christ.
Jesus' death did not merely freed us from the bondage of sin, He fully and over paid the complete penalty of our sins (as required by the Law given through Moses)
If cultivating a pure inner character and bearing good fruit/deeds is required for salvation, then there will be no need for the scarifice on the cross.
[its seems to me that you are just trying to impose yourself here, bringing unchristian teaching and mimicing it as one, I will discontinue the discourse here, for its fruitless to continue on] -
I see no point in discussing religion with people who selectively reads the bible either. Although your mind seems to be made up, please heed the following warning by Jesus:
Luke 16:31 NIV
If you do not listen to what the bible says, no matter how texts I quote and prove, you will still refuse to listen.
He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'