Can pastor hold a platinum card and own club memberships?
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Then they will say they do sideline like motivating talks/seminars....Originally posted by Honeybunz:yes they need to. But the question is how much do they really need vs how much they actually get. Do they feed their family with platinium card and extravagant lifestyle ? -
I suppose the question really is how the tithe and offerings are used. If you have a big congregation, the church will have a lot of money. They can use it to pay the ministers, church workers and the upkeep of the church.Originally posted by Honeybunz:yes they need to. But the question is how much do they really need vs how much they actually get. Do they feed their family with platinium card and extravagant lifestyle ?
Let's say the Catholic Church also get a lot of money. After paying the priests their allowance, much money will be left. Maintenance for a Catholic Church building should be cheaper. So where does the money go to? -
Those in the 'health and prosperity' circle need the money to show the sheeps that they are indeed wealthy and healthy.Originally posted by Honeybunz:This is sad. Serving the church as a minister was once upon a time, a noble job, a religious vocation, God's calling etc. But today's Christians have turned it into a highly salaried job, like a MD or CEO in any MNC. Some even turned it into a business enterprise.
Behold My Wagon!
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God knows u need those things
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ehh... from time to time, the Vatican does go into deficit.Originally posted by Icemoon:I suppose the question really is how the tithe and offerings are used. If you have a big congregation, the church will have a lot of money. They can use it to pay the ministers, church workers and the upkeep of the church.
Let's say the Catholic Church also get a lot of money. After paying the priests their allowance, much money will be left. Maintenance for a Catholic Church building should be cheaper. So where does the money go to?
Talking about priest's allowance... it's less than $1000 every month. How come they can survive and pastors need more than 3 times of that, 1 or 2 platinium card and a prestigious club membership?
Speaking of whether a congregation is big, the pastor that I talked about in my first msg is from one of those newly established "church" without own church building. Always have to rent function rooms here and there for services and meetings. So, a huge donation has been contributed to the pocket of the venue providers and yet the pastor can still take so much salary every month. -
Then the money/donation should go into motivating talks and seminars,Originally posted by laoda99:Then they will say they do sideline like motivating talks/seminars....
and not into these ppl's pocket. -
lol .. deficit doesn't tell us much. The last time I heard, the US deficit is dunno into how many billions.Originally posted by Honeybunz:ehh... from time to time, the Vatican does go into deficit.
Talking about priest's allowance... it's less than $1000 every month. How come they can survive and pastors need more than 3 times of that, 1 or 2 platinium card and a prestigious club membership?
Speaking of whether a congregation is big, the pastor that I talked about in my first msg is from one of those newly established "church" without own church building. Always have to rent function rooms here and there for services and meetings. So, a huge donation has been contributed to the pocket of the venue providers and yet the pastor can still take so much salary every month.
Priests do not have a family to feed, it is this simple. And since they don't participate much in worldly activities, $800 is definitely enough, considering the food and lodging is provided. Transport also, if I remember correctly.
During NS that time we get less than that. We also survive because food and lodging provided (we stay in camp) and we cut down on worldly activities. Those who always use handphone, go clubbing and smoke during bookout will complain money not enough, not surprising ..
My view is that your complaint is part of a bigger problem. Don't just see the paycheck because the paycheck has to match with church expenditure. It is absurd if a pastor of a megachurch gets $800 while they spend much much more on the upkeep. And the sheeps probably won't be happy knowing their shepherd pastor only get peanuts for serving them. -
HUH?Originally posted by Honeybunz:Then the money/donation should go into motivating talks and seminars,
and not into these ppl's pocket.
I sense a bit of misunderstanding here. -
If financial deficit can't tell much, then I dunno what can.Originally posted by Icemoon:lol .. deficit doesn't tell us much. The last time I heard, the US deficit is dunno into how many billions.
Priests do not have a family to feed, it is this simple. And since they don't participate much in worldly activities, $800 is definitely enough, considering the food and lodging is provided. Transport also, if I remember correctly.
During NS that time we get less than that. We also survive because food and lodging provided (we stay in camp) and we cut down on worldly activities. Those who always use handphone, go clubbing and smoke during bookout will complain money not enough, not surprising ..
My view is that your complaint is part of a bigger problem. Don't just see the paycheck because the paycheck has to match with church expenditure. It is absurd if a pastor of a megachurch gets $800 while they spend much much more on the upkeep. And the sheeps probably won't be happy knowing their shepherd pastor only get peanuts for serving them.
Then what worldly activities do pastors have to take part in that require them to draw high salary? I won't be surprised if they get variable bonus.
If the paycheck has to match with the church size or expenditure, then the church has become a business enterprise with the highly salaried pastor being the proprietor. Then, my question will be "Do they serve God to draw high salary? If the monthly income is restricted to merely enough to spend on the basic stuff, do they still serve God?" -
I dunno about economics, but deficit is very common in government. Vatican is a big organization, so they should be compared with governments than a protestant church?Originally posted by Honeybunz:If financial deficit can't tell much, then I dunno what can.
Then what worldly activities do pastors have to take part in that require them to draw high salary? I won't be surprised if they get variable bonus.
If the paycheck has to match with the church size or expenditure, then the church has become a business enterprise with the highly salaried pastor being the proprietor. Then, my question will be "Do they serve God to draw high salary? If the monthly income is restricted to merely enough to spend on the basic stuff, do they still serve God?"
Their worldly activities are like ours - go for holiday, buy car, buy house, buy furniture, see doctor, kids education etc. We have not agreed on how high is high, but definitely must be more than allowance.
It is easy to say give allowance, but is the church prepared to provide things like free healthcare like in NS? Provide them with a car? A house? I know Catholic priests live in bungalow one, not HDB because their dwelling is in the church compound. So Catholic priests actually live in landed property .. ahem. -
Alamak.. when u are down n out and want to have a comfortable life.. you'll know it's time to join the clergy.. woohoo..
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Hopefully money did not bait them to become pastors.Originally posted by Honeybunz:If the paycheck has to match with the church size or expenditure, then the church has become a business enterprise with the highly salaried pastor being the proprietor. Then, my question will be "Do they serve God to draw high salary? If the monthly income is restricted to merely enough to spend on the basic stuff, do they still serve God?"
But note that a protestant church is not like the Catholic Church. Catholic Church do things must be across the board. There are many protestant churches, and if you as believer think the church is using your tithe for unholy purposes, you have a choice not to give or simply leave the church.
Notice protestants give happily. The people in a particular church give money to build titanium building also never complain.
It is not possible to give them allowance because they are not celibate like priest. Pastors have family to feed and they have to buy their own house, car and pay for the expensive healthcare in singapore. -
Priests also go for holiday as much as we do, but without having to draw big money from everyone's pocket.Originally posted by Icemoon:I dunno about economics, but deficit is very common in government. Vatican is a big organization, so they should be compared with governments than a protestant church?
Their worldly activities are like ours - go for holiday, buy car, buy house, buy furniture, see doctor, kids education etc. We have not agreed on how high is high, but definitely must be more than allowance.
It is easy to say give allowance, but is the church prepared to provide things like free healthcare like in NS? Provide them with a car? A house? I know Catholic priests live in bungalow one, not HDB because their dwelling is in the church compound. So Catholic priests actually live in landed property .. ahem.
Those are priesthouse, not bungalow, owned by the Church, located in Church compound. They don't live in their own place, HDB or condo (like many pastors do..ahem..) because they have to fulfill their priestly duty.
They are also provided with cars (all 2nd hand donated or paid by the church).
They don't get to choose how big the "bungalow" they want to live in, or which model car they want to drive.
If a church minister has to draw high salary to sustain a good car, a condo, a platinium card and a club membership, that is overly indulging in worldly comfort. -
And the church members have to give money to sustain the pastors' family?Originally posted by Icemoon:Hopefully money did not bait them to become pastors.
But note that a protestant church is not like the Catholic Church. Catholic Church do things must be across the board. There are many protestant churches, and if you as believer think the church is using your tithe for unholy purposes, you have a choice not to give or simply leave the church.
Notice protestants give happily. The people in a particular church give money to build titanium building also never complain.
It is not possible to give them allowance because they are not celibate like priest. Pastors have family to feed and they have to buy their own house, car and pay for the expensive healthcare in singapore. -
Anyway.. ask ur priest to sign up for the Gackt247 Mastercard.
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sign up for mastercard with <$1000 a month?Originally posted by Gackt247:Anyway.. ask ur priest to sign up for the Gackt247 Mastercard. 
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So do priests pay the petrol in the car?Originally posted by Honeybunz:Priests also go for holiday as much as we do, but without having to draw big money from everyone's pocket.
Those are priesthouse, not bungalow, owned by the Church, located in Church compound. They don't live in their own place, HDB or condo (like many pastors do..ahem..) because they have to fulfill their priestly duty.
They are also provided with cars (all 2nd hand donated or paid by the church).
They don't get to choose how big the "bungalow" they want to live in, or which model car they want to drive.
If a church minister has to draw high salary to sustain a good car, a condo, a platinium card and a club membership, that is overly indulging in worldly comfort.
They go for holiday is expenses x 1 .. but for pastor it is usually expenses x 3 to x 5 depending on family size.
Priesthouse or bungalow what's the diff? In fact, the priesthouse is even bigger than most bungalows in Singapore if you count the overall compound size.
Wah .. mai hiam lah .. got free bungalow and car .. many Singaporeans cannot even afford them.
Once again, we have not defined how high is high. -
what you mean?Originally posted by Honeybunz:And the church members have to give money to sustain the pastors' family? -
Pastors will justify their high pay by saying they have family to support. But why should the congregation donate their money to feed the pastor's family, unless they also contribute their service to the church (I know most of them don't)?Originally posted by Icemoon:what you mean?
If we ask about how high is high....
Ok... I will take a look at a real life example of someone I personally know - a sole breadwinner in a family who has a sick spouse and two kids to support. She is taking home only $1,500. This is already enough for the whole family's basic expenditure, whole family's insurance, her daughter's piano and piano lesson, children's medical bill (when they fall sick from time to time) and her spouse's regular medication.
So I guess, S$2000 or more is too high for a church minister. Unfortunately, many church ministers will not want to settle for something less than that. They will claim that their children need so much expenditure. but if my friend can survive with the family with only $1,500, why do pastors need twice or thrice more than that? If you talk about pastors having to drive to hospitals, homes etc to do their duty, petrol should be covered by the church then cuz it's official matters. Even if they want to pay petrol from their own pocket, how much is the petrol every month? $1,200 or $1,500? The petrol cost should not be so high unless they drive high cc or performance car that eats up more fuels. But then, I won't be surprise if they drive such cars. After all, they can draw big fat pay from everyone's donation. -
Your perception of bungalow is so small one ah?Originally posted by Icemoon:So do priests pay the petrol in the car?
They go for holiday is expenses x 1 .. but for pastor it is usually expenses x 3 to x 5 depending on family size.
Priesthouse or bungalow what's the diff? In fact, the priesthouse is even bigger than most bungalows in Singapore if you count the overall compound size.
Wah .. mai hiam lah .. got free bungalow and car .. many Singaporeans cannot even afford them.
Once again, we have not defined how high is high.
Btw, priesthouse is not occupied by one priest only. It's several priests squeezed inside, including the serving parish priests and some retired priests that only come out once in a while. Also some meeting rooms are also built within the priesthouse for the parishioners to have their regular meetings etc.
Their cars are old cars and they drive the same old cars for years. True that many Singaporeans cannot afford that. But if you give away such 2nd hand car with car plate starting with SBK... you think any Singaporeans will want? Most Singaporean rich or poor only want to drive 1-2 year old car. This brings me to another question about pastors drawing high salary: Do they need so much money so that they can drive better and newer cars (2 Litres car instead of 1000 cc)?
Their holiday is usually sponsored by their own family. Holiday is not a must. No money, dun go, instead of no money - go get high salary & then holiday. Serving the church is a religious vocation, not a CEO job.
If a pastor has 5 children instead of 3, does he have to ask for a higher salary? Or will he work harder in getting tithes from every church member? -
I imagine if my mother have $1,500 and she's the only breadwinner.
My family will 'die' even without the car. -
You eat so much?Originally posted by M©+square:I imagine if my mother have $1,500 and she's the only breadwinner.
My family will 'die' even without the car. -
He always go kopitiam .. that's why.Originally posted by Honeybunz:You eat so much?
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HDB loan, electrical and gas, handphone bill alone will take up to 700-900 dollars?Originally posted by Honeybunz:You eat so much?
House loan is de killer.
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handphone bill so much?!?!?! You do what business?Originally posted by M©+square:HDB loan, electrical and gas, handphone bill alone will take up to 700-900 dollars?
House loan is de killer.
I killer business also dun chalk up so much. Every month less than $100 nia, cuz incoming call free -- I make my customers call me.