Why Do God Have To Create (The Devil - Satan) and humans
-
could it be that God used some bad in his creations to make "good"??Originally posted by Icemoon:told you liao .. christianity is not a religion for thinking people.
you now have two choices:
1. sweep the problem under the carpet. using Aristotle's first cause argument, you can't trace the evil back to God, so the source of evil has to be unknown. this is a dualistic worldview but you have to accept it.
2. the good angel never turned bad. this good angel is working for God and God is still sovereign over his actions, as seen in Job.
I dont think 2) is correct leh..... -
your theory is quite in line with 2 and the Jewish argument.Originally posted by davidche:could it be that God used some bad in his creations to make "good"??
I dont think 2) is correct leh..... -
2) is saying that satan is good.Originally posted by Icemoon:your theory is quite in line with 2 and the Jewish argument.
I am saying that it is bad but it is used for the ''good''
-
bad from whose pov?Originally posted by davidche:2) is saying that satan is good.
I am saying that it is bad but it is used for the ''good''
from yours? then obviously lah .. even Jews don't think of satan as their good friend.
But from the pov of God is satan bad or good? -
oh i see what you mean liao...Originally posted by Icemoon:bad from whose pov?
from yours? then obviously lah .. even Jews don't think of satan as their good friend.
But from the pov of God is satan bad or good? -
so that is the essence between the Christian and Jewish view of satan.Originally posted by davidche:oh i see what you mean liao...
nobody thinks of satan as their good friend, but how does God view satan? As a rebel? Or as His servant?
You have to see the big picture, angels are messengers/servants of God. They are absolutely loyal; you can even think of them as no free will.
If you think angels can rebel (and worse .. xtians say 1/3 of angels rebelled with satan?) .. then what is stopping the rest who haven't rebelled in the past to rebel now? There is nothing to stop everyone's favourite Michael and Gabriel to rebel.
Now zoom in on the role of angels - they are first and foremost messengers. Will God create the angelic species with the propensity to rebel or sin? What if Gabriel felt bo liao and purposely mis-communicate that Mary is full of grace? What if Gabriel felt lazy and didn't dictate the Qu'ran to the Prophet Muhammed faithfully?
What if during armageddon, archangel Michael rebels and turns against God? Instead of going to battle with satan's minons, he betrays God. So li3 ying4 wai4 he2, the bad angels surround heaven until shui3 xie4 bu4 tong1.
-
Hmm .. if the bad angels surround heaven .. poor Enoch and Elijah. Dunno how they gonna fight all the angels.
-
Maybe we should examine the verses that point to Satan's and his companions' fall as an angel??Originally posted by Icemoon:so that is the essence between the Christian and Jewish view of satan.
nobody thinks of satan as their good friend, but how does God view satan? As a rebel? Or as His servant?
You have to see the big picture, angels are messengers/servants of God. They are absolutely loyal; you can even think of them as no free will.
If you think angels can rebel (and worse .. xtians say 1/3 of angels rebelled with satan?) .. then what is stopping the rest who haven't rebelled in the past to rebel now? There is nothing to stop everyone's favourite Michael and Gabriel to rebel.
Now zoom in on the role of angels - they are first and foremost messengers. Will God create the angelic species with the propensity to rebel or sin? What if Gabriel felt bo liao and purposely mis-communicate that Mary is full of grace? What if Gabriel felt lazy and didn't dictate the Qu'ran to the Prophet Muhammed faithfully?
What if during armageddon, archangel Michael rebels and turns against God? Instead of going to battle with satan's minons, he betrays God. So li3 ying4 wai4 he2, the bad angels surround heaven until shui3 xie4 bu4 tong1. -
You can do that. An exercise for you.Originally posted by davidche:Maybe we should examine the verses that point to Satan's and his companions' fall as an angel??
It is your Christian argument anyway. -
Revelation 20:10 NIV
Satan the devil will be thrown in the lake of fire for his sins and be tormented forever.
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.