Why Do God Have To Create (The Devil - Satan) and humans
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why do he had to do that in the 1st place
if he knew that the angel of music was going to turn to devil why create him in the 1st place and he could have prevent it from happenning anyway -
How do you know that God knows the future? The bible doesnt explicitly say. Althought God certainly has the power to fufill whatever prophecies he makes. If God knew the future wouldn't the power of choice cease to exist? We would all just be pawns to his will.Originally posted by ghimpheng:why do he had to do that in the 1st place
if he knew that the angel of music was going to turn to devil why create him in the 1st place and he could have prevent it from happenning anyway
Just my thoughts...we will only know when we get to heaven and ask God personally. -
Note that this is a Christian worldview.Originally posted by ghimpheng:why do he had to do that in the 1st place
if he knew that the angel of music was going to turn to devil why create him in the 1st place and he could have prevent it from happenning anyway
The Jews don't believe in the Satan as devil. -
This is the free will vs. foreknowledge and predestination problem.Originally posted by Skibi:How do you know that God knows the future? The bible doesnt explicitly say. Althought God certainly has the power to fufill whatever prophecies he makes. If God knew the future wouldn't the power of choice cease to exist? We would all just be pawns to his will.
Just my thoughts...we will only know when we get to heaven and ask God personally.
Get Ironside to explain to you lah.
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Qn:Why did God create Satan(evil thing)
An: God created a good angel, its satan, under his free will, chose to rebel, that he became satan, or the adversary? Thus, God didnt create a satan(evil thing)
Qn: Assuming your asnwer is correct, God indirectly created satan(evil thing) Thus, he created evil since we have secured the fact that God created satan, who is part of evil, indirectly.
An: (waiting for people to ans) -
If God made humans and gave humans the freedom of making choices, what makes you think He won't give His own angels the freedom to choose?
Lucifer did have the choice to follow God or to submit to his own pride. Unfortunately, Lucifer wanted pride instead. He thinks he is God. So, down he goes!
God is not stupid. He gave us choice and responsibility for our lives so we can choose to trust in Him, or serve others.
The bible says one man cannot have two masters. So it's either the good, or the evil. -
if god don't know the future how the bible is written ?Originally posted by Skibi:How do you know that God knows the future? The bible doesnt explicitly say. Althought God certainly has the power to fufill whatever prophecies he makes. If God knew the future wouldn't the power of choice cease to exist? We would all just be pawns to his will.
Just my thoughts...we will only know when we get to heaven and ask God personally.
that means that he knew that the angel of music is going to turn evil but did nothing to prevent it from happening -
the answer to yr qns is god gives satan a choice.Originally posted by ghimpheng:if god don't know the future how the bible is written ?
that means that he knew that the angel of music is going to turn evil but did nothing to prevent it from happening
a relevant question i would like to ask is.
if god knows the future, why does he still let things happen and see everything in slow-motion?
if he knows the choice we are gonna make , why still make us and allow us to make choices that will not please him.
pls answer directly to my qns if u can, dont lead me somewhere else. thank you. -
Its all part of a big plan which we all get to participate in. YOu can find the same concept used in other religions also. Learn to look deeper and see the whole picture.
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if god doesn't know the future, then the whole story about Revelation in the bible is rubbish. In fact it may very well means satan can overpower god in future.
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Error over here.Originally posted by freestyle:the answer to yr qns is god gives satan a choice.
a relevant question i would like to ask is.
if god knows the future, why does he still let things happen and see everything in slow-motion?
if he knows the choice we are gonna make , why still make us and allow us to make choices that will not please him.
pls answer directly to my qns if u can, dont lead me somewhere else. thank you.
God isnt limited by time. He doesnt have to see things happen in slow motion.
You are using your human understanding to try to grasp God which is impossible at all. -
God is God thus he knows the future.Originally posted by Skibi:How do you know that God knows the future? The bible doesnt explicitly say. Althought God certainly has the power to fufill whatever prophecies he makes. If God knew the future wouldn't the power of choice cease to exist? We would all just be pawns to his will.
Just my thoughts...we will only know when we get to heaven and ask God personally.
Plus, there isnt any clash between God knowing the future and we having free will. I dont understand what makes you compromise and say that God may not know the furture.
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so since god is all powerful , knowledgable and ever present
he know the future and have control over everything
why does he create a angel that will turn into a devil 1 day he know the future
and he know that adam and eve going to eat the apple why don't stop them -
We will never understand how God works.
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I believe that even lucifer knows that God cannot know the future. God can calculate, predict, and even shape the future of those that accept him as God. But not even he(nor lucifer) knows the future of what allegiance mortal man might choose.Originally posted by davidche:God is God thus he knows the future.
Plus, there isnt any clash between God knowing the future and we having free will. I dont understand what makes you compromise and say that God may not know the furture. -
This is a very shallow answer, sorry.Originally posted by -[0]-:If God made humans and gave humans the freedom of making choices, what makes you think He won't give His own angels the freedom to choose?
Lucifer did have the choice to follow God or to submit to his own pride. Unfortunately, Lucifer wanted pride instead. He thinks he is God. So, down he goes!
God is not stupid. He gave us choice and responsibility for our lives so we can choose to trust in Him, or serve others.
The bible says one man cannot have two masters. So it's either the good, or the evil.
If a wrong choice can lead to eternal downfall, then the eternal downfall is bound to happen. It is about probability. You have so many angels and so many human in history. Anyone of them can sin (it doesn't have to be in Eden) and set off a chain reaction. At the very least, the descendants will be tainted with "original sin".
It can't be that God created us liddat and one single mistake in choice will lead to our downfall.
So there is something wrong with your argument .. but where?
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You need an expert in Calvinism to answer your question.Originally posted by Skibi:I believe that even lucifer knows that God cannot know the future. God can calculate, predict, and even shape the future of those that accept him as God. But not even he(nor lucifer) knows the future of what allegiance mortal man might choose.
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Use proof by contradiction.Originally posted by ghimpheng:so since god is all powerful , knowledgable and ever present
he know the future and have control over everything
why does he create a angel that will turn into a devil 1 day he know the future
and he know that adam and eve going to eat the apple why don't stop them
An illogical conclusion means there is something wrong with your premises.
It is like those detective drama isn't it? The police couldn't solve the crime because they have been looking over the wrong places. -
Did the angel of music turn evil?Originally posted by ghimpheng:if god don't know the future how the bible is written ?
that means that he knew that the angel of music is going to turn evil but did nothing to prevent it from happening
If so .. I challenge you to explain how could Lucifer bua long long go to God in the Book of Job?
No-one arrested him. Neither did God rebuke him like "get behind me you satan!".
Didn't the bible teach us that evil cannot tahan the holiness of God?
Edit: if human cannot face God in their sinful state. . what's more for Satan who is THE EVIL. -
We discussed this before and I pointed out the inconsistencies.Originally posted by davidche:Qn:Why did God create Satan(evil thing)
An: God created a good angel, its satan, under his free will, chose to rebel, that he became satan, or the adversary? Thus, God didnt create a satan(evil thing)
How could God create us [sinful] human but not Satan?
The argument seems to suggest that we fell for the same reason Satan fell - because of our choice.
If so, why the double standard in treatment? -
Life is like a game...God have to balance the world between evil and good
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read this.
"if god has intended for us to be slim he wouldnt have created pizzas." -
David the Great did it again.....
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Using reductio ad absurdum will tell us your conclusion is wrong.Originally posted by davidche:Qn: Assuming your asnwer is correct, God indirectly created satan(evil thing) Thus, he created evil since we have secured the fact that God created satan, who is part of evil, indirectly.
An: (waiting for people to ans)
God couldn't have created evil since the bible states "it was very good" at the end of creation. This is something Christians agree too.
On the other hand, if evil is not created by God, then John 1:3 certainly made a mistake:
John 1:3 - Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
I remember vividly a sermon many years back by Stephen Tong - he said John 1:3 was written in such a redundant way because the author wanted to counter the gnostic thoughts prevalent when the book was written near the end of the 1st century. -
I know i know, Satan's theory is like human's theory.Originally posted by Icemoon:We discussed this before and I pointed out the inconsistencies.
How could God create us [sinful] human but not Satan?
The argument seems to suggest that we fell for the same reason Satan fell - because of our choice.
God created something good, then it turned bad.
What im saying is since it is such, it is undeniable that God indirectly created something bad. right?
Edit: and thus what he created wasnt good at all