Conflicts of Christians
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In light of the ongoing conflict between davidche and myself, there is a need to address the issue as to why Christians have conflicts. Such conflicts are not new, even here in EH. In the past, there are many such issues, stemming from a difference in denominational theories, differences in perception of scripture, or even a simply, a clash of ego.
Biblical speaking, are the historical people of God free from such things? Obviously not. Otherwise there will not be a record of Matt 18:15"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.”
In the context of this verse, it is apparent that the offensive brother had not seek reconciliation and continue to live in error. This is different from what follows from verse 21 onwards where the famous passage of forgiving your brother 77 times.
Therefore the conclusion is, if a brother seeking reconciliation, he is to be forgiven, but if a brother does not seek reconciliation, the brother would be treated as a pagan or a tax collector. It should be noted here, that hard, decisive decision has to be made, and that they are not always pleasant.
Now, letÂ’s examine the famous confrontation of Paul on Peter in Galatians 2.
It was done in public. It was done because Peter is setting a poor example to the other believers and non-believers alike.
..in other words, conflicts between Christian is real and has to be dealt with.
Insomuch that I stand by the principle within the conflict I have with dave, I will apologise for calling dave a turd. I admit that it was totally unnecessary and I have become too emotional. So dave, I apologise for calling you a turd, which incidentally is a lot worst that calling you pathetic. But let me state that I had become frustrated because of the lack of desire to learn or improve on the part of this young person.
Note, however, that I did not apologise that I called him pathetic. I think he is a sad and pathetic young man who does not know where he stands and what he wants. I think he is pathetic in the way he calls attention to himself with his godless chatters and incessant whining. I think he is pathetic that he masks his lack of confidence through loud and boastful actions.
However, I wish him well, if he is willing to, as he said, “become a better man”.. then again, he has said this many times before and until I see a more proactive approach by dave, my opinion about him will not change.
But enough about dave.
In Eternal Hope, what do we do, what can we do. Christians (most of us anyway) here hope to counsel, mentor, explain, and hopefully evangelise. We deal with each other, listen to each others views, debate about it passionately, some try to help publicly, others work in the background. When we see a brother erring, what do we do? We chastise, we admonish, we counsel, we encourageÂ… sometimes privately too.... but if a brother does not listen, inspite of an overwhelming amount of discontentment, what can we do?
I think that this is a bigger issue than the problem between dave and me.
And this is the one we need to answer.... because conflicts will continue to exist. The thing I want to happen is someone misquoting 1 Corinthians 13 about love.
Most of all, I do not want Christians of protecting ourselves when one of us err. This has happened before when overzealous Christians step beyond the boundary of good human relational transaction and EH had in the past been accused of harbouring such folks under the guise of love. -
I absolutely know that you are trying to help me. I just dont think calling people pathetic is going to help the situation.
But anyways, Thanks for the apologies(i was touched) and thanks for clearing the doubts of other non-believers.
Cheers and God bless
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And why not?Originally posted by davidche:I absolutely know that you are trying to help me. I just dont think calling people pathetic is going to help the situation.
The first step to becoming a Christian is to acknowledge you are a sinner.
Obviously Christianity don't indulge in sweet words (those are reserved for God). -
and im supposed to actknowledge im pathetic??Originally posted by Icemoon:And why not?
The first step to becoming a Christian is to acknowledge you are a sinner.
Obviously Christianity don't indulge in sweet words (those are reserved for God).
to think about negative encouragement, calling intimidations is a kind of negative encouragement which is not used nowadays.
They search for purpose and goal of the person for every situation, then try to change it if its wrong. -
No need to acknowledge.Originally posted by davidche:and im supposed to actknowledge im pathetic??
Self examination is more important.
Add a prayer of repentance too. -
All conflicts can be settled with a Game of DotA.
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Originally posted by shade343:All conflicts can be settled with a Game of DotA.
i dont dota -
Dota is such an ancient game.
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Why do you say so?Originally posted by Icemoon:Dota is such an ancient game. -
It is to defend something ancient issit?Originally posted by davidche:Why do you say so? -
Thank you Chin Eng for taking the first step to post this.
I can only add this,
Open rebuke is better
Than love carefully concealed. - Proverbs 27:5 -
please don't drift my thread. DOTA is not part of the discussion here.
my question is still: when there are conflicts in EH between Christians, what can we do? -
It goes to show, dave, that I am not too proud to apologise, but neither am I so humble that I don't have any backbone to stand by my principles. You don't have to admit or agree that you are pathetic, that opinion is my privilege. You need to sit down quietly and reflect on everything you have done, and why you have done them. Beyond that, develop a resolution on how you can go about rectifying your personality issues.Originally posted by davidche:I absolutely know that you are trying to help me. I just dont think calling people pathetic is going to help the situation.
But anyways, Thanks for the apologies(i was touched) and thanks for clearing the doubts of other non-believers.
Cheers and God bless
You have gravely offended me by saying that I do things in order to get the approval of my friends in EH, to me that is one of the greatest insult I have ever heard of me. You have yet to show your remorse over this remark. Dave, the ball, again is in your court. -
How do you define conflict?Originally posted by Chin Eng:please don't drift my thread. DOTA is not part of the discussion here.
my question is still: when there are conflicts in EH between Christians, what can we do?
The way i see it, conflicts start when personal attacks start. -
Conflicts does not have to be personal.Originally posted by davidche:How do you define conflict?
The way i see it, conflicts start when personal attacks start.
In EH it can be between City Harvest members and everyone else - points of contentions are usually the CHC leadership and/or the wealth and health gospel.
It can be between Roman Catholics and Protestants - points of contentions are about the role and position of Mary and the saints.
It can be between different denominations - on issue of speaking in tongues, baptism, and liturgical practices.
Usually when these happens, there will be massive throwing of verses (which is why I don't like to quote verses for personal gains) and the challenge as to who is more spiritually smarter.
...... and you still have not apologised. -
To be honest, out of these 3 I think the last point of contention is easiest to avoid.Originally posted by Chin Eng:Conflicts does not have to be personal.
In EH it can be between City Harvest members and everyone else - points of contentions are usually the CHC leadership and/or the wealth and health gospel.
It can be between Roman Catholics and Protestants - points of contentions are about the role and position of Mary and the saints.
It can be between different denominations - on issue of speaking in tongues, baptism, and liturgical practices.
Usually when these happens, there will be massive throwing of verses (which is why I don't like to quote verses for personal gains) and the challenge as to who is more spiritually smarter.
...... and you still have not apologised.
Point 1, I'm not familiar with CHC but I grant you correcting a heresy or proving it otherwise is a pretty important thing.
Point 2- The differences between a Roman Catholic and Protestant are pretty fundamental too. I don't think either side can back down or compromise.
Point 3 has to be the most superficial source of conflict between Christians. Does it really matter if one church believes in baptism by sprinkling or baptism by immersion? Does it really matter if one church believes in having communion every week but another church believes in once every month? I sincerely believe that one way of avoiding conflict is to close one eye to minor differences between denominations. After all, the core doctrine is pretty much the same.
Sorry for digging up a really old thread. -
And what is minor and major doctrine?Originally posted by fallin:To be honest, out of these 3 I think the last point of contention is easiest to avoid.
Point 1, I'm not familiar with CHC but I grant you correcting a heresy or proving it otherwise is a pretty important thing.
Point 2- The differences between a Roman Catholic and Protestant are pretty fundamental too. I don't think either side can back down or compromise.
Point 3 has to be the most superficial source of conflict between Christians. Does it really matter if one church believes in baptism by sprinkling or baptism by immersion? Does it really matter if one church believes in having communion every week but another church believes in once every month? I sincerely believe that one way of avoiding conflict is to close one eye to minor differences between denominations. After all, the core doctrine is pretty much the same.
Sorry for digging up a really old thread. -
Things like the doctrine of the trinity, for a Protestant, the 5 solas, the dual nature of Christ so on and so forth I suppose. I don't think any Protestant denomination disagree with each other on these points. Any thing that doesnt amount to a heresy ba.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:And what is minor and major doctrine? -
What gives you the power to declare something as heretical?Originally posted by fallin:Things like the doctrine of the trinity, for a Protestant, the 5 solas, the dual nature of Christ so on and so forth I suppose. I don't think any Protestant denomination disagree with each other on these points. Any thing that doesnt amount to a heresy ba. -
you all very free.
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which topic?
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Okie, this one I admit, I dunno how to answer.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:What gives you the power to declare something as heretical?