animal sacrifice
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read as much as one can...however i need to inject this very important truth:
if you do not confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. One can never enter heaven. -
Dun worry, i'm reconciled with ChristOriginally posted by NT2:read as much as one can...however i need to inject this very important truth:
if you do not confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. One can never enter heaven.
anyway, what does icey has to say about the above statement? -
good for u boyOriginally posted by ben1xy:Dun worry, i'm reconciled with Christ
anyway, what does icey has to say about the above statement? -
I also need to read more 'cos their insights are really profound.Originally posted by ben1xy:Thks for the answers on the heaven bit. seems i need to read up more on Jewish stuff. their insights seem really well rounded
Actually you need not read Jewish stuff from their perspective. It may be hard for you to understand and appreciate because you are "contaminated" by Christian theology.
Since you are Catholic, I suggest you read works by your Catholic forefathers. Some of them were well versed in Jewish exegesis of Scripture and I have no doubt some Jewish ideas crept into Catholic understanding. Remember our Genesis discussion on the missing "it was very good"? You were taught ideas which originated from the Jews.
For starters, you can read works by Nicolas of Lyra. From wikipedia:Nicholas Of Lyra (c. 1270–October 1349), or Nicolaus Lyranus, a Franciscan teacher, was among the most influential practitioners of Biblical exegesis in the Middle Ages. He was a doctor at the Sorbonne by 1309 and ten years later was appointed the head of all Franciscans in France. His major work, Postillae perpetuae in universam S. Scripturam, was the first printed commentary on the Bible. Printed in Rome in 1471, it was later available in Venice, Basel, and elsewhere. In it, each page of Biblical text was printed in the upper center of the page and embedded in a surrounding commentary (illustration, right).
Here is the Catholic url on him:
Nicolas of Lyra's approach to explicating Scripture was firmly based on the literal sense, which for him is the foundation of all mystical or allegorical or anagogical expositions. He deplored the tortured and elaborated readings being given to Scripture in his time. The textual basis was so important that he urged that errors be corrected with reference to Hebrew texts, an early glimmer of techniques of textual criticism, though Nicholas urged as a good Catholic that the traditions of the Church were of equal weight to Scripture:
"I protest that I do not intend to assert or determine anything that has not been manifestly determined by Sacred Scripture or by the authority of the Church... Wherefore I submit all I have said or shall say to the correction of Holy Mother Church and of all learned men..." (Second Prologue to Postillae).
Nicholas utilized all sources available to him, fully mastered Hebrew and drew copiously from the Talmudic commentaries, the Pugio Fidei of Raymond Martini and of course the commentaries of St. Thomas Aquinas. His lucid and concise exposition, his soundly-based observations made Postillae the most-consulted manual of exegesis until the 16th century. Martin Luther depended upon it. When E.A. Gosselin compiled a listing of the printed editions of works by Nicolaus de Lyra, it ran to 27 pages (in Traditio 26 (1970), pp 399-426).
He was born in the village of Vieille-Lyre, Normandy, hence his name. Like others in the 14th century, he was occupied by the possibility of the conversion of the Jews, to whom he dedicated hortatory addresses. He wrote Pulcherrimae quaestiones Iudaicam perfidam in catholicam fide improbantes, which was one of the sources Martin Luther used in his On the Jews and Their Lies.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11063a.htm
PS: The Talmud is the Jewish Oral Tradition. The article said he "drew copiously from the Talmudic commentaries" .. dunno true or not. -
haha. i beat u to it. i'm already at the newadvent webbie.
like u mentioned, a lot of our theologians are well versed in Jewish ways. Thomas aquinas attributed some of his ideas to the jewish. anyway, thanks for the link. i'm pretty free today, so i'm gonna make full use of my day -
The statement is very shallow.Originally posted by ben1xy:Dun worry, i'm reconciled with Christ
anyway, what does icey has to say about the above statement?
Well .. the Hebrews did confess God as their Lord and Saviour [from the Egyptians] at Sinai. But a few moments later they descended into idolatory and God was angry with them.
So I think it is not about confessing who is your Saviour or who is not. It is about living your life to the best of God's expectation. When you have lived your life to the best of His expectation .. you will have no regret. -
I'm beginning to respect the Catholic theologians more.Originally posted by ben1xy:haha. i beat u to it. i'm already at the newadvent webbie.
like u mentioned, a lot of our theologians are well versed in Jewish ways. Thomas aquinas attributed some of his ideas to the jewish. anyway, thanks for the link. i'm pretty free today, so i'm gonna make full use of my day 
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living your life to the best of God's expectations.Originally posted by Icemoon:The statement is very shallow.
Well .. the Hebrews did confess God as their Lord and Saviour [from the Egyptians] at Sinai. But a few moments later they descended into idolatory and God was angry with them.
So I think it is not about confessing who is your Saviour or who is not. It is about living your life to the best of God's expectation. When you have lived your life to the best of His expectation .. you will have no regret.
"for all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory" -
Micah 6:Originally posted by NT2:living your life to the best of God's expectations.
"for all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory"
6‘With what shall I come before the Lord,
and bow myself before God on high?
Shall I come before him with burnt-offerings,
with calves a year old?
7Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams,
with tens of thousands of rivers of oil?
Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?Â’
8He has told you, O mortal, what is good;
and what does the Lord require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God? -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
tt verse does not replace the merits of Christ accomplished on the cross.
Micah 6:
6‘With what shall I come before the Lord,
and bow myself before God on high?
Shall I come before him with burnt-offerings,
with calves a year old?
7Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams,
with tens of thousands of rivers of oil?
Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?Â’
[b]8He has told you, O mortal, what is good;
and what does the Lord require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God? [/b] -
Adam and Eve were not created perfect.Originally posted by NT2:"for all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory"
Their first sin will come sooner or later. It might not come from them, but from any of their descendants. -
u have warped theological thinking.Originally posted by Icemoon:Adam and Eve were not created perfect.
Their first sin will come sooner or later. It might not come from them, but from any of their descendants.
u are not regenerated.
u are not saved. -
It is like the PAP isn't it?Originally posted by NT2:tt verse does not replace the merits of Christ accomplished on the cross.
The merits should be distributed to all citizens .. whether you vote for PAP or not.
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u dun mix secular worldview of PAP with God's worldview.Originally posted by Icemoon:It is like the PAP isn't it?
The merits should be distributed to all citizens .. whether you vote for PAP or not.
u dun pervert the holy things of God with ur dark mind. -
when Christians run out of intelligent things to say .. they will use this.Originally posted by NT2:u have warped theological thinking.
u are not regenerated.
u are not saved.
seriously I don't hear this kind of rubbish from Buddhists, Jews, Taoists or Muslims. -
You are the one with the dark mind.Originally posted by NT2:u dun mix secular worldview of PAP with God's worldview.
u dun pervert the holy things of God with ur dark mind.
If PAP can act justly by distributing progress package to all citizens .. why can't God? -
i can fairly label u as an antichrist.Originally posted by Icemoon:when Christians run out of intelligent things to say .. they will use this.
seriously I don't hear this kind of rubbish from Buddhists, Jews, Taoists or Muslims.
u know alot but all those are things tt occupy ur mind. the head knowledge is not accepted as heart's conviction. U are a wolf in sheep's clothing.
if u happen to be in a church, excommunication is the treatment u will receive.
like it or not. tts it. -
The only reason I can think of is this - you are inside the "club". You have to defend the exclusivity of your "club". If not .. your "club" will have no value.
Your "club" is exclusive and those who go in become snobs.
I have no club .. I use the ubiquitous void deck where everyone can mingle .. freely. -
why suddenly the personal attacks?
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It's quite unnecessary to phrase it this way.Originally posted by NT2:i can fairly label u as an antichrist.
u know alot but all those are things tt occupy ur mind. the head knowledge is not accepted as heart's conviction. U are a wolf in sheep's clothing.
if u happen to be in a church, excommunication is the treatment u will receive.
like it or not. tts it.
You may present it with the right attitude.
But this attitude cannot win people's heart.
Arh neh -
wow .. what started as rubbish has now become trash.Originally posted by NT2:i can fairly label u as an antichrist.
u know alot but all those are things tt occupy ur mind. the head knowledge is not accepted as heart's conviction. U are a wolf in sheep's clothing.
if u happen to be in a church, excommunication is the treatment u will receive.
like it or not. tts it.
Sorry .. I don't buy your threat.
Like it or not, you are casting your fake pearls to swines.
Opps .. did I just say I am a pig? -
i dun care its a club membership u think it is or not.Originally posted by Icemoon:The only reason I can think of is this - you are inside the "club". You have to defend the exclusivity of your "club". If not .. your "club" will have no value.
Your "club" is exclusive and those who go in become snobs.
I have no club .. I use the ubiquitous void deck where everyone can mingle .. freely.
salvation is not by membership; it is through the only Savior Jesus Christ. Anything outside this club will cause u to be unsaved. and this club i refers not to christian church membership nor a gathering of like-minded people. This club is the group of redeemed people, saved only by the Blood of Christ.
and if u r unsaved, dun meddle the things of the saved.
He who has the Son has life, he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
it's tt simple. cut ur PAP analogy. -
I am sick of the trashy xtian attitude. NT2 and Ironside.Originally posted by M©+square:It's quite unnecessary to phrase it this way.
You may present it with the right attitude.
But this attitude cannot win people's heart.
Arh neh
I think they are the real wolves in sheep clothings. -
what treatment is to be given i know. such personality i have seen lots of them.Originally posted by M©+square:It's quite unnecessary to phrase it this way.
You may present it with the right attitude.
But this attitude cannot win people's heart.
Arh neh
I can discern who are the interested, pretend to be interested and not interested to knw but wanna remain as a space occupier. -
it's ok with me.Originally posted by Icemoon:I am sick of the trashy xtian attitude. NT2 and Ironside.
I think they are the real wolves in sheep clothings.
to u i am the wolf and vice versa.
I believe the good tree will bear good fruits teaching.