Why Christians are going to hell.
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dave .. what is your question actually?
did my reply help? -
Actually, all atheists have lots of bones to pick out of the bible.Originally posted by davidche:Nobody has actually answered the question directly. Its iether beat the bush or ask some questions for thought.
Its no wonder atheists will say we are escaping from the question.
From what i see now, the answer to the TS's qn is: The passage isnt for us.
I am interested to know the answer.
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You answer did help a lot.Originally posted by Icemoon:dave .. what is your question actually?
did my reply help?
Thanks -
how about we modify it this way...Originally posted by vince69:Aurther = Moses
Target Audience = The Jews that came out of Egypt with him.
to the many christians here who think in terms of the OT and the NT... don't forget, the OT is what is referred to and still called the HOLY SCRIPTURES.
Author = Yahweh
Presenter = Moshe
Target Audience = The nation of Israel
What does the NT say about people who accept Yeshua as Lord and Saviour, that we become part of the commonwealth of Israel, so therefore... target audience will also include all believers today. -
wah leow .. you are writing to a non Jewish audience .. it is Moses not Moshe.Originally posted by breytonhartge:how about we modify it this way...
to the many christians here who think in terms of the OT and the NT... don't forget, the OT is what is referred to and still called the HOLY SCRIPTURES.
Author = Yahweh
Presenter = Moshe
Target Audience = The nation of Israel
What does the NT say about people who accept Yeshua as Lord and Saviour, that we become part of the commonwealth of Israel, so therefore... target audience will also include all believers today.
*knocks some sense into Brey*
And how come the Jewishness in you never reject Yahweh and favour Hashem? Even Ironside uses Hashem you know!
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Is using Yahweh wrong? can use Hashem, adonai, elohim...Originally posted by Icemoon:wah leow .. you are writing to a non Jewish audience .. it is Moses not Moshe.
*knocks some sense into Brey*
And how come the Jewishness in you never reject Yahweh and favour Hashem? Even Ironside uses Hashem you know!
*smacks icemoon for trying to change Moshe's name... *
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You do know Jews don't call God 'Yahweh' ..Originally posted by breytonhartge:Is using Yahweh wrong? can use Hashem, adonai, elohim...
*smacks icemoon for trying to change Moshe's name... *
If you are so particular about a mortal's name but not God, then you are practising double standards. -
I'd really appreciate if we can keep this Jewish slant in Deeper Truth....Originally posted by breytonhartge:how about we modify it this way...
to the many christians here who think in terms of the OT and the NT... don't forget, the OT is what is referred to and still called the HOLY SCRIPTURES.
Author = Yahweh
Presenter = Moshe
Target Audience = The nation of Israel
What does the NT say about people who accept Yeshua as Lord and Saviour, that we become part of the commonwealth of Israel, so therefore... target audience will also include all believers today.
We can continue to split hairs as to whose name is what, but I don't think that this is the point at all...
Sure, we can all insist that everything in the Bible is meant for all for all times, but I last checked this morning, I wasn't looking for manna, I had multigrain bread, and I did not eat birds that flew into my house for dinner, I had sauerkraut and sausages. I also wasn't wearing cotton (or whatever the Jews where when they were wandering), I had polyester shirt. I also wasn't sandals but a slip-on beach shoe....
Ice, can you please visit Deeper Truth once in a while and share some of your thoughts there. If there is anyone else close to Jewish practices in sgforums, it's you. -
Brey is inconsistent to the "highest degree".
He knows the Jews don't call God 'Yahweh' but he still do it.
Even after my gentle reminder .. he still never realize his mistake.
He even smacked me for trying to change Moses' name! Why is a mortal now bigger than God?
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To be technically correct, Moses' real name couldn't be 'Moshe'.
Moshe is Hebrew ..but the name was given by an EGYPTIAN PRINCESS! You think the princess knew Hebrew?? Furthermore you expect the 'Prince of Egypt' to be addressed by a Hebrew name in the Egyptian court?
If Brey wants to split hair .. I can split hair with him.
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icy... chill out... I was only kidding with you...Originally posted by Icemoon:You do know Jews don't call God 'Yahweh' ..
If you are so particular about a mortal's name but not God, then you are practising double standards.
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Your siggy is an insult to the Christian and Jewish translators of the Holy Scripture.
I've checked KJV, NIV, NRSV .. even the Tanach .. all translate to 'Lord'.
You use which chiong version? How come is 'Yahweh'? -
No mah .. I feel we shouldn't practise double standards.Originally posted by breytonhartge:icy... chill out... I was only kidding with you... -
sighhhh....Originally posted by Icemoon:No mah .. I feel we shouldn't practise double standards.
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Dave, can i give you the standard dispensational principle when studying or reading the Bible?Originally posted by davidche:Nobody has actually answered the question directly. Its iether beat the bush or ask some questions for thought.
Its no wonder atheists will say we are escaping from the question.
From what i see now, the answer to the TS's qn is: The passage isnt for us.
I am interested to know the answer.
This is really an elementary principle to others [especially thoroughgoing dispensational students of the Bible] but here it is anyway:
While all the Bible was written FOR you, it was not all written TO you, nor was it all written ABOUT you.
1) It was all written for you. From the Bible we glean principles, instuctions, correction, training for righteousness and etc.
From the OT we can glean principles and examples of others. We can learn from their mistakes, their exemplary life and etc. Certainly the command to build an ark was not given to you. it was for Noah. But can we glean principles from it? Certainly.
For example: The position of the majority is not always right. Noah heeded God's voice than heeding the voice of the unbelieving world. May we follow Noah's example. No, not the building of the ark [LOL]......i mean the principle.
In the NT we can glean direct commands for a Christian.
pray always. stand fast in the faith. Grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and etc.
2) It was not all written to you. Scripture divides the world into three major peoples [though there maybe other divisions but these are the major distinct divisions that leap out of the pages of the Bible]
a)Gentiles b) Israel and c) the Church of God.
You can see that in Romans. First he addresses the case of the Gentiles mostly chapter one starting from verse 18. Then he addresses the Jews or Israelites from chapter 2:17. Then the book as a whole was intended for the Church of God in Rome and to all the churches throughout all the Churh Age till the Lord Raptures His Church.
These three sets of people God has a special plan. There were directives given to Israel like there were directives given to the Church. Some directives of Israel were given to the Church as well. But this doesn't mean that the Church is Isreal.
It was not all written about you. This is self explanatory. There are things there written about you as a sinner, about you as a redeemed sinner [if you have trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ alone for salvation], about you as a member of the Church of God and etc. But there are also things written there not about you.
P.s. do not confuse Israel with the Church or mix the two. you will be hopelessly confused. Skeptics who often find "contradictions" in the Bible often fail to distinguish the two. -
Originally posted by Ironside:
I almost forgot, the Bible was written for those with souls, for those without...It's a different case.
Dave, can i give you the standard dispensational principle when studying or reading the Bible?
This is really an elementary principle to others [especially thoroughgoing dispensational students of the Bible] but here it is anyway:
While all the Bible was written [b]FOR you, it was not all written TO you, nor was it all written ABOUT you.
[/b] -
Originally posted by Ironside:
While all the Bible was written [b]FOR you, it was not all written TO you, nor was it all written ABOUT you.
[/b] I like this statement. Cannot expect anything less from a theological student.... graduated already or not? -
Originally posted by Ironside:
WOW!! thx for your explaination.
Dave, can i give you the standard dispensational principle when studying or reading the Bible?
This is really an elementary principle to others [especially thoroughgoing dispensational students of the Bible] but here it is anyway:
While all the Bible was written [b]FOR you, it was not all written TO you, nor was it all written ABOUT you.
1) It was all written for you. From the Bible we glean principles, instuctions, correction, training for righteousness and etc.
From the OT we can glean principles and examples of others. We can learn from their mistakes, their exemplary life and etc. Certainly the command to build an ark was not given to you. it was for Noah. But can we glean principles from it? Certainly.
For example: The position of the majority is not always right. Noah heeded God's voice than heeding the voice of the unbelieving world. May we follow Noah's example. No, not the building of the ark [LOL]......i mean the principle.
In the NT we can glean direct commands for a Christian.
pray always. stand fast in the faith. Grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and etc.
2) It was not all written to you. Scripture divides the world into three major peoples [though there maybe other divisions but these are the major distinct divisions that leap out of the pages of the Bible]
a)Gentiles b) Israel and c) the Church of God.
You can see that in Romans. First he addresses the case of the Gentiles mostly chapter one starting from verse 18. Then he addresses the Jews or Israelites from chapter 2:17. Then the book as a whole was intended for the Church of God in Rome and to all the churches throughout all the Churh Age till the Lord Raptures His Church.
These three sets of people God has a special plan. There were directives given to Israel like there were directives given to the Church. Some directives of Israel were given to the Church as well. But this doesn't mean that the Church is Isreal.
It was not all written about you. This is self explanatory. There are things there written about you as a sinner, about you as a redeemed sinner [if you have trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ alone for salvation], about you as a member of the Church of God and etc. But there are also things written there not about you.
P.s. do not confuse Israel with the Church or mix the two. you will be hopelessly confused. Skeptics who often find "contradictions" in the Bible often fail to distinguish the two.
[/b]
You have interested me to start my daily bible reading now.
Ill start on romans
thanks again! -
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im not being sarcastic or joking. I am serious. Ironside's post has sparked up some interested in me for the Book of Romans. Crtical, to the point edification.. Iron rocks!!Originally posted by Owl^:.... -
No sarcastic or joking lah...Mr davidcheOriginally posted by davidche:im not being sarcastic or joking. I am serious. Ironside's post has sparked up some interested in me for the Book of Romans. Crtical, to the point edification.. Iron rocks!! only felt happy for you
Indeed...yubbb...ironside rocks!!
n why not!
God bless ye. -
ironside is a theologian?Originally posted by Chin Eng: I like this statement. Cannot expect anything less from a theological student.... graduated already or not?
no wonder his postings have depth!
unlike mine
aiyah, ok .. when i have theological questions, i know who to look for.
most of the priest seldom check e-mails -
the common characteristics of a theologian is that they can post relevant bible verses whenever it is nessasary.Originally posted by ben1xy:ironside is a theologian?
no wonder his postings have depth!
unlike mine
aiyah, ok .. when i have theological questions, i know who to look for.
most of the priest seldom check e-mails
It means that they are familiar with the bible, and uses it whenever the time comes.
God's word is the defense against satan. -
Actually if you read Church history you should know the Catholic Church did not place emphasis on biblical knowledge last time. So priests like Aquinas was the exception; I think the average priest cannot expound on the bible at all.Originally posted by ben1xy:ironside is a theologian?
no wonder his postings have depth!
unlike mine
aiyah, ok .. when i have theological questions, i know who to look for.
most of the priest seldom check e-mails
I think it was at Trent? or around then that the Church started to place emphasis on true biblical literacy for her priests.