Judaism have NO problem with Satan (A biblical view)

• Icemoon

  27 Oct 06, 21:26

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  Well according to wikipedia, tis is wat they say about satan
  
  In the Tanakh, the holy hebrew bible, ha-satan (=the satan) is an angel whom God uses to test man for various reasons usually dealing with his level of piety.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan
  
  So satan seems to be an angel tat specially went around "testing" and "give suffering" to people so god can satisfy his curiosity. In tat sense god is indeed "satan"

  so the argument now is about God or satan?
  
  The problem of evil and suffering is a big can of worms .. I don't think I have the maturity to handle it yet .. still learning.
• stupidissmart

  27 Oct 06, 21:26

  another role satan play is when he is testing jesus. However jesus is god, and satan works under god. Does tat make sense ?
• Icemoon

  27 Oct 06, 21:28

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  another role satan play is when he is testing jesus. However jesus is god, and satan works under god. Does tat make sense ?

  In the first place .. Jesus as god don't make sense to the Jews.
  
  
• Icemoon

  27 Oct 06, 21:33

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  another role satan play is when he is testing jesus. However jesus is god, and satan works under god. Does tat make sense ?

  The scenario is quite dumb in the first place.
  
  Christians on one hand claim that Jesus cannot be tempted.
  
  On the other hand, they claim that Satan also know Scripture.
  
  I'd add that Satan has been with God long enough (he was arch-angel remember?) to understand His nature. Maybe he even played chess with Jesus before. Anyone watched Be Dazzled?
• stupidissmart

  27 Oct 06, 21:34

  In the first place .. Jesus as god don't make sense to the Jews

  Well, then when u say tat satan works under god and not rebel, tat statement is pretty powerful because it runs into contradiction with the account in the NT. In tat sense christian cannot accept tat satan is working under god. And then it does not become a "biblical" but really "torah" view.
  
  Furthermore, it do portrays god in a sort of negative light. God appears to be someone who simply make people suffer to satisfy his ego. Tat is satan role... Otherwise u really have to explicitly mention wat is the things he did tat make him different from the other angels.
• Icemoon

  27 Oct 06, 21:53

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  Well, then when u say tat satan works under god and not rebel, tat statement is pretty powerful because it runs into contradiction with the account in the NT. In tat sense christian cannot accept tat satan is working under god. And then it does not become a "biblical" but really "torah" view.
  
  Furthermore, it do portrays god in a sort of negative light. God appears to be someone who simply make people suffer to satisfy his ego. Tat is satan role... Otherwise u really have to explicitly mention wat is the things he did tat make him different from the other angels.

  Maybe biblical is not the correct word, scriptural would be better? A bible is a collection of books. Scripture is basically any book that is divinely inspired.
  
  From what I understand, the purpose of suffering is not to satisfy anyone's ego. There is a hint of the purpose in the article - "This is the Almighty's divine sovereign plan for creation: It is through man's personal decision to turn away from evil and choose good that virtue can be attained."
  
  I think the reason why everyone is so confused (including you) is because we assume that suffering is bad. Actually suffering need not be bad. I can give you one example - practising chin up until your arms become jelly. In fact, if you want to excel in anything, you have to suffer.
  
  Of course la .. there are many levels of suffering. What I listed is quite trivial, you might say. I agree. If suffering can be explained so easily .. the Jews wouldn't ask where was God during the holocaust liao.
• Icemoon

  27 Oct 06, 22:16

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  Furthermore, it do portrays god in a sort of negative light. God appears to be someone who simply make people suffer to satisfy his ego. Tat is satan role... Otherwise u really have to explicitly mention wat is the things he did tat make him different from the other angels.

  I'm not sure how different is he from other angels, but as the article makes clear, an angel is basically executing the divine will of God.
  
  To be honest, the Hebrew Bible did not go into great length to describe the role of this angel called satan. Our best evidence comes from Job and even in Job we could see that God had faith in Job to go through the suffering and God reminded everyone who is boss by telling Satan what he could or could not do.
• stupidissmart

  27 Oct 06, 23:02

  "This is the Almighty's divine sovereign plan for creation: It is through man's personal decision to turn away from evil and choose good that virtue can be attained."

  Frankly the only example of satan action is during job... and job basically just suffers, not turning away from evil or anything. If there is no such thing as evil, wat is the good of virtue ?
  
  

  think the reason why everyone is so confused (including you) is because we assume that suffering is bad. Actually suffering need not be bad. I can give you one example - practising chin up until your arms become jelly. In fact, if you want to excel in anything, you have to suffer.

  Ahh... I can give u one hundred example where suffering yields nothing. A person suffering pain during a traffic accident before he dies gain nothing. A person who gets hit by a bullet and suffers before he dies also gain nothing. Most suffering yields nothing. I think trying to make suffering sounds as though it is good is really just covering up
• Icemoon

  27 Oct 06, 23:11

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  Frankly the only example of satan action is during job... and job basically just suffers, not turning away from evil or anything. If there is no such thing as evil, wat is the good of virtue ?
  

  I am confused. Who said there is no such thing as evil?
  
  

  Ahh... I can give u one hundred example where suffering yields nothing. A person suffering pain during a traffic accident before he dies gain nothing. A person who gets hit by a bullet and suffers before he dies also gain nothing. Most suffering yields nothing. I think trying to make suffering sounds as though it is good is really just covering up

  Actually did Job's suffering yield something?
  
  If you analyze suffering by loss and gain, you still get the conclusion that suffering can be good or bad. So how?
  
  If you say suffering is bad, you are not correct also. If suffering is bad and our "ideal state" is to avoid .. then we won't excel in anything. You agree?
• stupidissmart

  27 Oct 06, 23:41

  I am confused. Who said there is no such thing as evil?

  This is the Almighty's divine sovereign plan for creation: It is through man's personal decision to turn away from evil and choose good that virtue can be attaine
  
  Then wat is almighty divine plan ? I read the reply u have given and I thought u mean evil was created to bring out the virtue of men. If he don't create evil, then there is no need of virtue
  
  

  Actually did Job's suffering yield something?

  Job is not the only suffering in the world. Wat did he really yield except boosting god ego ?
  
  

  If you analyze suffering by loss and gain, you still get the conclusion that suffering can be good or bad. So how?
  
  If you say suffering is bad, you are not correct also. If suffering is bad and our "ideal state" is to avoid .. then we won't excel in anything. You agree?
  

  I think there is a need to distinguish between volunteeringly suffer and suffering inflicted on u. The things tat will make "suffer" good is yourself willingly "suffering" to improve yourself such as exercising to gain tat muscle u want. However the "suffer" tat satan inflict and the whole problem we r talking is suffering tat is inflicted. No one volunteer for tis kind of act of god but they just inflict it out for no-one-know wat reason. Furthermore the magnitude of "suffering" when u volunteeringly commit is many times lower and it has a "reward". Suffering inflicted on u is many times more devastating as well as having perhaps, lifetime punishment at the end instead of reward.
• Icemoon

  28 Oct 06, 01:10

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  Then wat is almighty divine plan ? I read the reply u have given and I thought u mean evil was created to bring out the virtue of men. If he don't create evil, then there is no need of virtue
  

  Actually the reply only mention about man turning away from evil, there is no suggestion that god created evil in order to bring out the virtue of man.
  
  Wait .. don't quote some other biblical verse to challenge me first! We need to understand what exactly is this evil. So tell me, what do you understand by evil?
  
  

  Job is not the only suffering in the world. Wat did he really yield except boosting god ego ?

  Was God's ego boosted? From what I understand, Job did not went down on his knees to thank God for all the suffering leh. He did not say the equivalent of wan sui wan sui wan wan sui to a king sitting on the throne leh.
  
  

  However the "suffer" tat satan inflict and the whole problem we r talking is suffering tat is inflicted. No one volunteer for tis kind of act of god but they just inflict it out for no-one-know wat reason.

  So, in your opinion, all suffering comes from God? If you think so, then according to the fate of Job, people who suffer should triumph in the end. Maybe have more cars, more houses and more wives.
• stupidissmart

  28 Oct 06, 07:46

  Actually the reply only mention about man turning away from evil, there is no suggestion that god created evil in order to bring out the virtue of man.
  
  Wait .. don't quote some other biblical verse to challenge me first! We need to understand what exactly is this evil. So tell me, what do you understand by evil?

  This is the Almighty's divine sovereign plan for creation: It is through man's personal decision to turn away from evil and choose good that virtue can be attaine
  
  Com'on, tat statement becomes senseless if it does not means god create evil. I mean, if evil is already here which is not up to god, then god didn't really make any "planning" nor "action". It is like a statement
  
  Men ingenious plan is a sun tat create the energy needed to survive.
  
  But men did not make the sun This is not a plan unless they wanna make a second sun. In your statement, if evil exist which is not up to god, then there is no god plan and no god action in there and the statement is simply trying to console themselves over the problem.
  
  Wat is evil ? The opposite of good lor
  
  

  Was God's ego boosted? From what I understand, Job did not went down on his knees to thank God for all the suffering leh. He did not say the equivalent of wan sui wan sui wan wan sui to a king sitting on the throne leh.

  It proves job is loyal to god to the point much more than wan wui wan sui wan wan sui. Heck he openly sing and praise god isn't it ? Otherwise why is job tortured ? If u do not agree with me then please offer the reason stated in the bible why job is tortured
  
  

  So, in your opinion, all suffering comes from God? If you think so, then according to the fate of Job, people who suffer should triumph in the end. Maybe have more cars, more houses and more wives

  There r christian who believe tat everything about u and your life is already plan by god from the start. In tat case god did allow suffering to occur. All suffering did not triumph, even in the story of job, job's family also suffer death by they never get any "triumph" as stated in the bible.
• breytonhartge

  28 Oct 06, 07:54

  Originally posted by Icemoon:

  ok .. I just went to his forum after so many months. Looks like vince, CE and even kaister have posted .. only I haven't!!
  
  His articles could be informative but they sure are lengthy. They are like stuffs you find in textbook which means the articles don't engage you at all.
  
  I read the evolution thread there a bit .. realized brey trying to siam responsibility when questioned by kaister.
  
  This is not the way isn't it? Brey claims to post different viewpoints, but without an attempt to be credible and without engaging people, how do we learn the deeper truths?
  
  His methodology is very un-jewish. This is not how Jews learn in their yeshivas.

  hey... only just started this way of thinking a while ago... give me some time... the greek way of thinking takes a while to shake...
  
  no not trying to siam responsibility... kaister and I discussed this already.
  
  Icy, your point is taken and I will see what I can do to be more engaging...
  
  that is why maybe you should come help??
• Icemoon

  28 Oct 06, 10:56

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  Com'on, tat statement becomes senseless if it does not means god create evil. I mean, if evil is already here which is not up to god, then god didn't really make any "planning" nor "action". It is like a statement.
  
  Wat is evil ? The opposite of good lor
  

  The reason I say God did not create evil is because it is very misleading. We are used to thinking evil is always bad, and so if evil originated from God then God must be even badder right?
  
  I don't think so. After all God declared "it was very good" at the end of creation. So it must be good even for the unsavory parts right?
  
  

  It proves job is loyal to god to the point much more than wan wui wan sui wan wan sui. Heck he openly sing and praise god isn't it ?

  Then why did God snap? (Job 40)
  
  1 The LORD said to Job:
  
  2 "Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?
  Let him who accuses God answer him!"
  
  I think God's ego must be hurt by something right?
  
  

  All suffering did not triumph, even in the story of job, job's family also suffer death by they never get any "triumph" as stated in the bible.

  Hmm .. this is a knotty problem.
• stupidissmart

  28 Oct 06, 13:44

  The reason I say God did not create evil is because it is very misleading. We are used to thinking evil is always bad, and so if evil originated from God then God must be even badder right?
  
  I don't think so. After all God declared "it was very good" at the end of creation. So it must be good even for the unsavory parts right?

  How can evil be good when it is defined as opposite of good ? If evil is good, then wat is not good ? And your only explanation is tat god says it is "good" There is such a phrase, so ? There r people who do not believe god create evil. God in the bible also say tat satan rebel against god and u also don't take it. God also says tat he create everything in 6 days and it is proven to be more. It may simply good for himself only since he set up the stage to watch the show. Maybe it is good since he don't face the problem of evil himself. U need to explain how can "evil" be "good". If "evil" can be "good", then tat is not really evil afterall.
  
  

  Then why did God snap? (Job 40)
  
  1 The LORD said to Job:
  
  2 "Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?
  Let him who accuses God answer him!"
  
  I think God's ego must be hurt by something right?

  I am still waiting for the answer why does god torture job as stated in the bible.
  
  
• Icemoon

  28 Oct 06, 21:28

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  There is such a phrase, so ? There r people who do not believe god create evil. God in the bible also say tat satan rebel against god and u also don't take it. God also says tat he create everything in 6 days and it is proven to be more.

  woo .. you are over-powering me with so many questions.
  
  Actually God did not create evil, this one I also agree. In Judaism, evil is not a intrinsic attribute, it is more like a consequence of your free-will. It is like suffering is the consequence of our actions. The thing Judaism disagrees with Christianity is that the "source" for causing evil was already present during creation. Christians refuse to acknowledge the "source" as present during creation, they say they dunno where this "source" comes from.
  
  Where, in the Old Testament, did God say satan rebelled against Him?
  
  I can reconcile the 6 days with xx billion years in science. While my belief may not be most theologically correct, I find no glaring contradiction in it. So it is logical to me.
• Icemoon

  28 Oct 06, 21:46

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  I am still waiting for the answer why does god torture job as stated in the bible.
  
  

  dun worry la .. me not trying to siam your question.
  
  Actually did God torture Job? While God permitted Job to be tortured, it is not the same as saying God tortured Job.
  
  As to why God allow Job to be tortured .. well I haven't study yet. So can I say I dunno?
  
  Maybe when I know liao I tell you?
• stupidissmart

  28 Oct 06, 23:39

  Actually God did not create evil, this one I also agree. In Judaism, evil is not a intrinsic attribute, it is more like a consequence of your free-will. It is like suffering is the consequence of our actions. The thing Judaism disagrees with Christianity is that the "source" for causing evil was already present during creation. Christians refuse to acknowledge the "source" as present during creation, they say they dunno where this "source" comes from.

  Tis bring out more questions. First the original question.
  
  This is the Almighty's divine sovereign plan for creation: It is through man's personal decision to turn away from evil and choose good that virtue can be attaine
  
  How do god plan if he is not involved in the action ? After I asked the question u
  
  The reason I say God did not create evil is because it is very misleading
  
  I think the misleading portion is your statement above... it do give the idea u think god create evil.
  
  Next, isn't god omnipotent ? Why can't he remove evil ? Why can't we have free will without evil, much like him ? If free will must be together with evil and sin, then wat does god want men to be ? No free will and no sin or got free will and sin ?
  
  Wat is adam before he eat the fruit ? Does he have free will ? If he have free will, then he should surely sin, and sin exists before the fall of men. If he does not have free will, why is he blamed for eating the fruit of wisdom ? He can't choose his action if he does not have free will isn't it ? If he has free will and not sin, then why is there evil in tis world ? Free will is not an answer for sinning because they r mutually independent and having free will does not equate to sinning, much like adam have free will and not sin.
  
  

  Where, in the Old Testament, did God say satan rebelled against Him?

  I say bible, not OT. R u more jewish than christian ?
  
  

  I can reconcile the 6 days with xx billion years in science. While my belief may not be most theologically correct, I find no glaring contradiction in it. So it is logical to me.

  U say it yourself, theologically incorrect. U r really throwing away the word "days" and replace with "billions of years". Why don't u replace the word god say it is "good" with "ok" ? U can really be creative and alter a lot of words to suit your preference u know
  
  

  Actually did God torture Job? While God permitted Job to be tortured, it is not the same as saying God tortured Job.

  U r really twisting the words. Satan is a servant to god according to u. Satan ask if job should be tested more to prove his loyalty which god answer yes. Then u say he is not torturing job ? Anyway, no matter how u twist the lines, u can't avoid the responsibility tat job torture have a direct link with god
  
  

  As to why God allow Job to be tortured .. well I haven't study yet. So can I say I dunno?

  Well the story of job in the bible is only some lines (in fact some of your reply r longer than the book of job ). I am pretty sure u have read it before. Why don't u say wat u felt job was tortured for ? I always answer watever question u ask, why don't u try and answer tis one
• Icemoon

  29 Oct 06, 00:05

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  Tis bring out more questions. First the original question.
  
  This is the Almighty's divine sovereign plan for creation: It is through man's personal decision to turn away from evil and choose good that virtue can be attaine
  
  How do god plan if he is not involved in the action ? After I asked the question u
  
  The reason I say God did not create evil is because it is very misleading
  
  I think the misleading portion is your statement above... it do give the idea u think god create evil.

  Haha .. I also blur liao. Why not you teach me how to express my thoughts?
  
  I wanted to say something like .. God created the source of evil, which isn't evil by itself, but which can lead to evil actions.
  
  

  Next, isn't god omnipotent ? Why can't he remove evil ? Why can't we have free will without evil, much like him ? If free will must be together with evil and sin, then wat does god want men to be ? No free will and no sin or got free will and sin ?

  Because the source of evil can be useful in other ways.
  
  

  Wat is adam before he eat the fruit ? Does he have free will ? If he have free will, then he should surely sin, and sin exists before the fall of men. If he does not have free will, why is he blamed for eating the fruit of wisdom ? He can't choose his action if he does not have free will isn't it ? If he has free will and not sin, then why is there evil in tis world ? Free will is not an answer for sinning because they r mutually independent and having free will does not equate to sinning, much like adam have free will and not sin.

  If you use the Christian mentality to analyze .. you only make yourself more confused. Last time I analyzed using Christian mentality I nearly went crazy .. because in EH got one person asked when did sin or evil first enter into Eve.
  
  

  I say bible, not OT. R u more jewish than christian ?

  I suppose you can say that.
  
  

  U say it yourself, theologically incorrect. U r really throwing away the word "days" and replace with "billions of years". Why don't u replace the word god say it is "good" with "ok" ? U can really be creative and alter a lot of words to suit your preference u know

  Duh .. I never said theologically incorrect .. where you got that from?
  
  And I never replace with billions of years. There are many ways you can avoid the contradiction faced by the creationists. For example, you can read it as poetry. It is not theologically incorrect to read it as poetry mah.
  
  

  U r really twisting the words. Satan is a servant to god according to u. Satan ask if job should be tested more to prove his loyalty which god answer yes. Then u say he is not torturing job ? Anyway, no matter how u twist the lines, u can't avoid the responsibility tat job torture have a direct link with god

  God answered yes but God didnt instruct Satan how to torture Job right?
  
  If you are confused (like me sometimes), can always fall back on the divine prosecutor analogy. You remember what is it?
  
  

  Well the story of job in the bible is only some lines (in fact some of your reply r longer than the book of job ). I am pretty sure u have read it before. Why don't u say wat u felt job was tortured for ? I always answer watever question u ask, why don't u try and answer tis one

  You siao ah .. the book of Job is more than 40 chapters leh!!
  
  Furthermore some have called it the greatest piece of literature .. you think so easy to understand ah?
  
  I know what I know and what I dunno. If I dunno .. then I'll admit. I think it is not shameful to admit you dunno.
• stupidissmart

  29 Oct 06, 00:22

  Haha .. I also blur liao. Why not you teach me how to express my thoughts?
  
  I wanted to say something like .. God created the source of evil, which isn't evil by itself, but which can lead to evil actions.

  Tat is impossible to express since god created the source of evil, and it isn't evil runs into contradiction. It is like I don't know how to express the idea John is fat who isn't fat.
  
  

  Because the source of evil can be useful in other ways.

  name me how
  
  

  If you use the Christian mentality to analyze .. you only make yourself more confused. Last time I analyzed using Christian mentality I nearly went crazy .. because in EH got one person asked when did sin or evil first enter into Eve

  So I suppose u have the answer to it now since u don't go crazy now. Wat is the answer ?
  
  

  Duh .. I never said theologically incorrect .. where you got that from?

  I got it from
  
  While my belief may not be most theologically correct,
  
  

  And I never replace with billions of years. There are many ways you can avoid the contradiction faced by the creationists. For example, you can read it as poetry. It is not theologically incorrect to read it as poetry mah.

  On the same page god says he create everything. So tat is poetry too ?
  
  

  God answered yes but God didnt instruct Satan how to torture Job right?

  Com'on man God is omniscience and make satan. How can he don't know
  
  

  You siao ah .. the book of Job is more than 40 chapters leh!!
  
  Furthermore some have called it the greatest piece of literature .. you think so easy to understand ah?
  
  I know what I know and what I dunno. If I dunno .. then I'll admit. I think it is not shameful to admit you dunno.

  1. U read the book ?
  2. U must have some impression of it
  3. Wat is your impression of why job is tortured ?
  
  It is not shameful to admit u dun know. But it is cowardly not to even dare express your own personal opinion on a book u read. I am not asking for the standard answer, i am just asking your own interpretation. Is tat so hard ?
• Icemoon

  29 Oct 06, 00:39

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  Tat is impossible to express since god created the source of evil, and it isn't evil runs into contradiction. It is like I don't know how to express the idea John is fat who isn't fat.

  Impossible to express then how?
  
  Yay .. dun need to explain to you liao.
  
  

  name me how[/quote]
  
  A quick analogy - water can push the boat but can also sink it. So is water evil? Remember God used water to flood everyone to dead wor.
  
  

  So I suppose u have the answer to it now since u don't go crazy now. Wat is the answer ?

  The answer (which I find satisfying so far) is that there wasn't any independent source of evil that entered into Eve. The serpent did not miraculously transfer evil to Eve .. the serpent only triggered what was already in Eve all along .. the "source".
  
  There are still some gaps in my understanding, but at least I never go crazy this time.
  
  

  I got it from
  
  While my belief may not be most theologically correct,

  This is not the same as saying it is theologically incorrect.
  
  

  On the same page god says he create everything. So tat is poetry too ?

  I believe He created everything, but the manner described by the text could be poetic? I dunno .. just throwing some suggestion.
  
  

  Com'on man God is omniscience and make satan. How can he don't know

  He dun know what?
  [quote]

  1. U read the book ?
  2. U must have some impression of it
  3. Wat is your impression of why job is tortured ?

  1. YES and NO.
  2. Of course.
  3. I haven't read enough to form a conclusion.
• stupidissmart

  29 Oct 06, 00:54

  Impossible to express then how?
  
  Yay .. dun need to explain to you liao.

  If u don't wanna explain, it is really fine u know
  
  

  A quick analogy - water can push the boat but can also sink it. So is water evil? Remember God used water to flood everyone to dead wor.

  Water is not evil, but flooding and destruction of property is. Ship tat goes across water is not evil, but ships sinking and people die is. Water is water, evil is evil. U don't put evil as water and show how water can be good
  
  

  The answer (which I find satisfying so far) is that there wasn't any independent source of evil that entered into Eve. The serpent did not miraculously transfer evil to Eve .. the serpent only triggered what was already in Eve all along .. the "source".
  
  There are still some gaps in my understanding, but at least I never go crazy this time

  There r really many gaps in your theory. U still have not answer whether god create evil or not
  
  

  This is not the same as saying it is theologically incorrect

  So u saying it is "not theologically correct" is not equal to saying it is "theologically incorrect". Ok, let the readers judged themselves then
  
  

  I believe He created everything, but the manner described by the text could be poetic? I dunno .. just throwing some suggestion

  Sounds like picking and choosing watever u like to believe
  
  

  He dun know what?

  God is linked to job being tortured. True or not ?
  
  

  1. YES and NO.

  U never read job in your understood language before ? Wat do u mean by yes and no ?
  
  

  2. Of course.
  3. I haven't read enough to form a conclusion

  U read through it once at least once ? Isn't tat enough to have an impression ? Just say out your impression
• Icemoon

  29 Oct 06, 01:09

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  Water is not evil, but flood is. Ship tat goes across water is not evil, but ship sinking and people die is. Water is water, evil is evil. U don't put evil as water and show how water can be good

  Isn't flood just a lot of water?
  
  You can have a lot of water rushing at great speed to generate energy from a dam .. how about this? On the other hand, the same water rushing at same speed over your house will demolish it. So at the end it depends on how the water is used, isn't it?
  
  If you are confused ..then just think of the chinese saying roughly translated as water can float a ship but can also sink it.
  
  

  So u saying it is "not theologically correct" is not equal to saying it is "theologically incorrect". Ok, let the readers judged themselves then

  Crazy .. what I said (and you quoted) was - While my belief may not be most theologically correct.
  
  

  Sounds like picking and choosing watever u like to believe

  Of course .. you got to choose the most sensible right? If you are given a choice between science and tooth fairies .. you will choose to believe in science right!
  
  

  God is linked to job being tortured. True or not ?

  He allowed it to happen, yes.
  
  

  U never read job in your understood language before ? Wat do u mean by yes and no ?

  Yes because I have read some parts of it .. No because I never read the whole book.
  
  

  U read through it once at least once ? Isn't tat enough to have an impression ? Just say out your impression

  Not even once.
• stupidissmart

  29 Oct 06, 01:22

  Isn't flood just a lot of water?
  
  You can have a lot of water rushing at great speed to generate energy from a dam .. how about this? On the other hand, the same water rushing at same speed over your house will demolish it. So at the end it depends on how the water is used, isn't it?
  
  If you are confused ..then just think of the chinese saying roughly translated as water can float a ship but can also sink it.

  Flood is a lot of water, but it is really a medium tat allow evil to achieve its purpose. Water running in dynamo is good, and no elements of evil is in it. But evil is present when misfortune happens such as destroying house from a broken dam. As said, water is water, evil is evil. U can't generalise tat water must either be evil or good, then treat water as evil when it is just water
  
  Let me give an example
  
  Car can travel with velocity. Car can be stationary. So does tat means having velocity is stationary ?
  
  

  Crazy .. what I said (and you quoted) was - While my belief may not be most theologically correct.

  Let the readers judged themselves then
  
  

  Of course .. you got to choose the most sensible right? If you are given a choice between science and tooth fairies .. you will choose to believe in science right!

  Ahh.. but if u change any words u like in the bible, u r playing god and building your own religion. Why don't u just make something totally up which u believe in ?
  
  

  Not even once

  Ok, fine. Then let the readers who had read the book judged themselves
• happyharvest

  29 Oct 06, 01:36