Judaism have NO problem with Satan (A biblical view)
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ok .. I just went to his forum after so many months. Looks like vince, CE and even kaister have posted .. only I haven't!!Originally posted by Chin Eng:... too long for my liking....
I'd rather someone write from his heart, not a cut and paste deal (but that's just my opinion).
His articles could be informative but they sure are lengthy. They are like stuffs you find in textbook which means the articles don't engage you at all.
I read the evolution thread there a bit .. realized brey trying to siam responsibility when questioned by kaister.
This is not the way isn't it? Brey claims to post different viewpoints, but without an attempt to be credible and without engaging people, how do we learn the deeper truths?
His methodology is very un-jewish. This is not how Jews learn in their yeshivas. -
I think the average Christian is capable of reading Hebrew too.Originally posted by vince69:on the part regarding OT in Hebrew, I am not surprised he is doing it, cause I think he is capable of reading Hebrew (or at least learning to).
If you have an insatiable thirst for God's Word .. anything is possible. -
Allow me to summarise
Of course, the SIS way
In short, the whole thing about satan is a show performed to push people into believing in god. Satan, much like TCS stars, r cast as "baddies" because they r absolutely important to make the show more interesting. Without satan, a lot of bad things tat happened cannot be explained. Without satan, there is no scapegoat tat take up all the blame like sickness and evil etc. Without satan, god cannot bring fear to the people and they wouldn't come to him. Without satan, tat is no role model tat warn people wat happened to them after judgement. Therefore satan is actually god most favourite angle because it makes god look better. In reality, they r actually in cahoot with each other. God is more evil than satan because he wanna act good yet in reality, performed all the evil things and push all the blame to satan. Satan is really just an obedient servent. No wonder he still acts as such even though he know he will be "judged" at the end.
If u ask me, satan is prominent in almost all religion. Because he is an essential ingredient for brainwashing and limit thinking. He bring fear to people who will then act in extreme manners. Satan is supposed to be so evil, so powerful tat the only protection men can get is from god. He is also something like the "bad" parent tat work with god (good parent) so tat people will view god as a shelter from the "bad" parent. -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:If u ask me, satan is prominent in almost all religion. Because he is an essential ingredient for brainwashing and limit thinking. He bring fear to people who will then act in extreme manners. Satan is supposed to be so evil, so powerful tat the only protection men can get is from god. He is also something like the "bad" parent tat work with god (good parent) so tat people will view god as a shelter from the "bad" parent.
there is no such thing as a bad parent/good parent play in my house. My wife is both bad parent/good parent AT THE SAME TIME..... no refuge.
....but thanks for you summation.
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SISOriginally posted by stupidissmart:Allow me to summarise Of course, the SIS way
In short, the whole thing about satan is a show performed to push people into believing in god. Satan, much like TCS stars, r cast as "baddies" because they r absolutely important to make the show more interesting. Without satan, a lot of bad things tat happened cannot be explained. Without satan, there is no scapegoat tat take up all the blame like sickness and evil etc. Without satan, god cannot bring fear to the people and they wouldn't come to him. Without satan, tat is no role model tat warn people wat happened to them after judgement. Therefore satan is actually god most favourite angle because it makes god look better. In reality, they r actually in cahoot with each other. God is more evil than satan because he wanna act good yet in reality, performed all the evil things and push all the blame to satan. Satan is really just an obedient servent. No wonder he still acts as such even though he know he will be "judged" at the end.
If u ask me, satan is prominent in almost all religion. Because he is an essential ingredient for brainwashing and limit thinking. He bring fear to people who will then act in extreme manners. Satan is supposed to be so evil, so powerful tat the only protection men can get is from god. He is also something like the "bad" parent tat work with god (good parent) so tat people will view god as a shelter from the "bad" parent.
allow me to further summerise for you
what you are saying here is "Satan = Boggey man".
right?
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yup, that's what he's trying to say..... with one G..... Bogey ManOriginally posted by vince69:SIS
allow me to further summerise for you
what you are saying here is "Satan = Boggey man".
right? -
Boggey sounds better than Bogey (both non-existence anyway)Originally posted by Chin Eng:yup, that's what he's trying to say..... with one G..... Bogey Man -
hello! Don't anyhow say hor.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Allow me to summarise Of course, the SIS way
In short, the whole thing about satan is a show performed to push people into believing in god. Satan, much like TCS stars, r cast as "baddies" because they r absolutely important to make the show more interesting. Without satan, a lot of bad things tat happened cannot be explained. Without satan, there is no scapegoat tat take up all the blame like sickness and evil etc. Without satan, god cannot bring fear to the people and they wouldn't come to him. Without satan, tat is no role model tat warn people wat happened to them after judgement. Therefore satan is actually god most favourite angle because it makes god look better. In reality, they r actually in cahoot with each other. God is more evil than satan because he wanna act good yet in reality, performed all the evil things and push all the blame to satan. Satan is really just an obedient servent. No wonder he still acts as such even though he know he will be "judged" at the end.
If u ask me, satan is prominent in almost all religion. Because he is an essential ingredient for brainwashing and limit thinking. He bring fear to people who will then act in extreme manners. Satan is supposed to be so evil, so powerful tat the only protection men can get is from god. He is also something like the "bad" parent tat work with god (good parent) so tat people will view god as a shelter from the "bad" parent.
you got read the article or not? I start this topic is because of people like you u know? -
I really do read the article... i think the statement
For the Jewish faith, Satan's purpose in seducing man away from God poses no problem because Satan is only an agent of God. As a servant of the Almighty, Satan faithfully carries out the divine will of his Creator as he does in all his tasks.
Tat is the crux of your passage isn't it ? If u ask me, I do want to agree with u tat satan is a servant of god biblically. But I can't help extrapolating tis concept into the paragraph tat I have written above. I mean, do u see a problem with the reply ? I find it quite apt in describing wat is really going on if wat u said is true. -
So what is really going on in your opinion?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Tat is the crux of your passage isn't it ? If u ask me, I do want to agree with u tat satan is a servant of god biblically. But I can't help extrapolating tis concept into the paragraph tat I have written above. I mean, do u see a problem with the reply ? I find it quite apt in describing wat is really going on if wat u said is true. -
i need some eye drops.
wait i post my opinion. -
So what is really going on in your opinion?
I am an atheist. I do not believe any of them exists. -
no .. I mean this:Originally posted by stupidissmart:I am an atheist. I do not believe any of them exists.I find it quite apt in describing wat is really going on if wat u said is true.
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u mean the passage I have written ? In one line
If satan is really a loyal servant working for god, then god is the real "satan". -
I think there is a need to decouple Satan from evil and sin because the Jews do not believe that Satan is the evil agent.Originally posted by stupidissmart:u mean the passage I have written ? In one line
If satan is really a loyal servant working for god, then god is the real "satan".
Think of my favourite analogy - Satan is the divine prosecutor working for the Court.
How will this make God the real satan? -
then there is a need to ask who carry out the old "christian" roles of satan in tis case...
need to go... carry on when i am back... -
sure .. I wait for you to come back and elaborate.Originally posted by stupidissmart:then there is a need to ask who carry out the old "christian" roles of satan in tis case...
need to go... carry on when i am back...
Thank you SIS .. you have been very cordial in the discussion.
PS: I don't think SIS will abandon his atheist position overnight .. but at least he admitted the Jewish view is biblically logical. -
Taken from wikipedia:
Arutz Sheva (Channel Seven) is a right wing Israeli online media network, which identifies with Religious Zionism. It offers online news in English, Hebrew, French and Russian in three ways: written, internet radio, and internet television. The Israeli government never granted it a license to broadcast, prompting charges of government discrimination against the right-wing, religious public.
The main broadcasters on the station are Yishai Fleisher, his wife Malkah Fleisher, Tamar Yonah, Alex Traiman, and renowned anti-missionary Rabbi Tovia Singer known as the "Chief Rabbi of Newstalk Radio".
Taken from Your Arms to Israel:
Rabbi Moshe writes...
May I suggest to you, my precious brother, that if you agree to meet with someone like Mr. Singer, you should take a well-versed Messianic rabbi or apologist along with you. Then you will not fall away from the faith at the hands of those whose feigned words are making merchandise of your very soul (Second Peter 2:1-3), trying their hardest to get you to deny the very Elohim who bought you with His own precious blood. DonÂ’t forget! Everyone like yourself who he can successfully "deprogram", just increases the donations he can bring into his organization. Those are his true motives. Scripture backs this up!
Mr. Singer has openly admitted to being paid very well to "deprogram" sincere men and women like yourself, who are not interested in critical theological sideshows, but rather simply need the assurance of His acceptance, love and forgiveness. You have and always will have ElohimÂ’s love, acceptance forgiveness, if you continue to abide in the Vine of all true life and in His Word.
To Icemoon:
Mr. Singer idealogy does not represent the views of mainstream Judaism, therefore please change the topic's title as this may be offensive to Jews. -
sure .. I wait for you to come back and elaborate.
Don't be too happy yet. Anyway u still have not answer the question wat happened to the old "satan" role. There r a lot of untolerable suffering tat r totaly unfair happening. Wat caused these misfortune
Thank you SIS .. you have been very cordial in the discussion.
PS: I don't think SIS will abandon his atheist position overnight .. but at least he admitted the Jewish view is biblically logical. -
What old "satan" role?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Don't be too happy yet. Anyway u still have not answer the question wat happened to the old "satan" role. There r a lot of untolerable suffering tat r totaly unfair happening. Wat caused these misfortune
There wasn't any in the first place.
Told you liao .. this article is about decoupling satan from evil and sin. Read the title. I never say Judaism has NO problem with evil and sin. -
then wat special role does he have compared with other angels ? He gave people sickness and suffering simply to test them ?
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I have not checked on the credibility of your source .. but instead of making ad hominem arguments .. why not tell us in what ways are the views expressed in this article unrepresentative of mainstream Judaism?Originally posted by Skibi:To Icemoon:
Mr. Singer idealogy does not represent the views of mainstream Judaism, therefore please change the topic's title as this may be offensive to Jews.
Remember .. I'm not interested to defend this Mr Singer. I'm only interested in the Jewish view on Satan. -
From what I understand he is the heavenly accuser who will speak of all the bad things in order to discredit you. I think this view is not too far from what happened in Job.Originally posted by stupidissmart:then wat special role does he have compared with other angels ? He gave people sickness and suffering simply to test them ?
As to whether he gave people sickness and suffering, I'm not sure. In Job, he seems to have God's permission to do it. -
I am happy because I have led you away from the circle.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Don't be too happy yet.
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Well according to wikipedia, tis is wat they say about satan
In the Tanakh, the holy hebrew bible, ha-satan (=the satan) is an angel whom God uses to test man for various reasons usually dealing with his level of piety.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan
So satan seems to be an angel tat specially went around "testing" and "give suffering" to people so god can satisfy his curiosity. In tat sense god is indeed "satan".
However on your issue about satan being created by god and never rebel against god seems to be true from the jewish prospective.